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View Full Version : Why aren't the Birthers asking for Romney's Tax Returns?!



JustAlex
08-03-2012, 03:31 AM
Interesting.....a group of delusional conservatives demanded the absurdity of asking the U.S president for his birth certificate.

However, when Liberals demand to see Romney's Tax returns (which is completely reasonable), conservatives in general stay quiet and some of them say it's an "attack on Romney"!

HAHAHA, conservatives are hilarious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Niic1kqB5Dw&feature=g-u-u

theonedru
08-03-2012, 05:30 AM
They are called birthers for a reason, not taxers... Pretty easy explanation.

INTIMADATOR2007
08-03-2012, 08:11 AM
When is Obama gonna run on his record ? Is this all you guy's can come up with , really ? chasing a tax return is pitiful.

mrveggieman
08-03-2012, 09:29 AM
When is Obama gonna run on his record ? Is this all you guy's can come up with , really ? chasing a tax return is pitiful.


President Obama will be glad to discuss his political record as soon as you conservatives stop asking him stupid questions about his birth certificate.

shrewsbury
08-03-2012, 09:44 AM
Obama is not running on his record, how could he? the birthers is getting old, and romney ran in 08, so i am sure he has paid taxes.

i would love to see Obama's college application, and Romney's tax return, maybe we can kick them both out of the running.

and once again we have lumped all the conservatives with the crazies

but it should be a shame to lump all the crazies liberals together.

perhaps harry reid can inform us with his secret phone calls on what is really going on.

pghin08
08-03-2012, 10:07 AM
Demanding to see Obama's birth certificate because you think he was born in Kenya or Timbuktu or whatever = Stupid.

Demanding to see a bunch of Mitt Romney's tax returns because you want to see how little tax he paid? = Stupid.

mrveggieman
08-03-2012, 10:27 AM
Demanding to see Obama's birth certificate because you think he was born in Kenya or Timbuktu or whatever = Stupid.

Demanding to see a bunch of Mitt Romney's tax returns because you want to see how little tax he paid? = Stupid.


I disagree with that. If anyone really thinks that one man has enough recources to to pull off the wrolds biggest hoax and fool the US gov't into believing that he was born in the united states when he really wasn't they are an idiot and on drugs. Romney's tax returns are very important because he is the president and will have a say so in how we are taxed. If Romney is cheating on his taxes how can we expect him to do the right thing if he gets elected to office?

pghin08
08-03-2012, 10:33 AM
I disagree with that. If anyone really thinks that one man has enough recources to to pull off the wrolds biggest hoax and fool the US gov't into believing that he was born in the united states when he really wasn't they are an idiot and on drugs. Romney's tax returns are very important because he is the president and will have a say so in how we are taxed. If Romney is cheating on his taxes how can we expect him to do the right thing if he gets elected to office?

I can say with great confidence that Mitt Romney isn't cheating on his taxes. Here's my reasoning:

1. There are already enough loopholes in the tax code to allow Mitt Romney to pay a lower tax rate. It's not insignificant, but it's also not a huge percentage.

2. Someone would have found out by now. Mitt Romney has been in the political world long enough.

3. A combination of #1 and #2. Given that Mitt Romney has lived for quite some time in the public eye, and has harbored political ambitions (and political office for that matter), one can assume he probably wouldn't want to do anything to jeopardize that. Tax evasion is a pretty good way to harm a political career. Plus, since he already has other avenues to avoid taxes, why cheat?

If he IS cheating his taxes, he's an unbelievable idiot. I just don't think that's the case.

ALADOG
08-03-2012, 11:10 AM
Interesting.....a group of delusional conservatives demanded the absurdity of asking the U.S president for his birth certificate.

However, when Liberals demand to see Romney's Tax returns (which is completely reasonable), conservatives in general stay quiet and some of them say it's an "attack on Romney"!

HAHAHA, conservatives are hilarious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Niic1kqB5Dw&feature=g-u-u

Very simple.

It is a requirement by law that you be a natural born citizen to become president. Therefore proof should be necessary.

There is no legal requirement that Romney provide 10 years of tax returns. He has already provided what is legally required.

mrveggieman
08-03-2012, 11:16 AM
Very simple.

It is a requirement by law that you be a natural born citizen to become president. Therefore proof should be necessary.

There is no legal requirement that Romney provide 10 years of tax returns. He has already provided what is legally required.

So do you actually believe that President Obama made it this far w/o providing proof that he is a legally born US citizen? If you do I got some swampland in Arizona that I would be willing to trade you for some of your cards.

pghin08
08-03-2012, 11:19 AM
Very simple.

It is a requirement by law that you be a natural born citizen to become president. Therefore proof should be necessary.

There is no legal requirement that Romney provide 10 years of tax returns. He has already provided what is legally required.

110% true. Romney has released what he had to. He doesn't have to release more tax returns just because Obama did.

JustAlex
08-03-2012, 11:21 AM
Very simple.

It is a requirement by law that you be a natural born citizen to become president. Therefore proof should be necessary.

There is no legal requirement that Romney provide 10 years of tax returns. He has already provided what is legally required.
Very well....

I DEMAND to see Willard "Mitt" (STUPID NAME!!!) Romney's Birth Certificate!!!!

And Until I see it.....I will believe that he is a MEXICAN just like his Father!!!

JustAlex
08-03-2012, 11:23 AM
Mitt Romney is trying to USURP the presidency!

Are we really going to allow a MEXICAN into our beloved White House???

pghin08
08-03-2012, 11:24 AM
Oh, JustAlex, I really hope you're being sarcastic.

JustAlex
08-03-2012, 11:26 AM
Oh, JustAlex, I really hope you're being sarcastic.
Haha....of course I am.

But this is how these people sound, it's utterly insane, and now some of them want to see Obama's college transcripts.

Where will it end?

habsheaven
08-03-2012, 11:28 AM
Trying to get Romney to release his tax returns is by no means stupid. If he ever does release them, people will likely see that he has had years where his accountants have managed to reduce his tax liability to NIL. Legally, there is nothing wrong with that. Politically, it is suicide. Common sense tells us that this is the reason he will not release them. He would rather suffer the political cost of not revealing them, than suffer the political death that will surely follow if he does.

Unless he has vastly different principles than his father, this is not about principle. It's about what the returns will reveal.

ensbergcollector
08-03-2012, 11:29 AM
Haha....of course I am.

But this is how these people sound, it's utterly insane, and now some of them want to see Obama's college transcripts.

Where will it end?

the funny thing about the college transcripts is that obama used mccains against him but threatened lawsuits if harvard turned his over. If romney was attacking obama based on his tax returns, but refusing to turn his over, I would call foul on romney. Obama used mccains school records against him but refuses to turn his over, so yeah, i'm calling foul on obama.


i see you calling out the conservatives but I don't see you having any problem with the left calling for romney's tax returns.

pghin08
08-03-2012, 11:45 AM
Trying to get Romney to release his tax returns is by no means stupid. If he ever does release them, people will likely see that he has had years where his accountants have managed to reduce his tax liability to NIL. Legally, there is nothing wrong with that. Politically, it is suicide. Common sense tells us that this is the reason he will not release them. He would rather suffer the political cost of not revealing them, than suffer the political death that will surely follow if he does.

Unless he has vastly different principles than his father, this is not about principle. It's about what the returns will reveal.

But as an individual voter, I don't care. So long as he is within the law.

tpeichel
08-03-2012, 11:46 AM
I don't know where Obama was born, but there is solid evidence that the birth certificate that Obama provided is forged. Take a look at the document. It is supposed to be a scan of the birth certificate in the binder. On the far left edge of the document, you'll notice the horizontal separator lines curve as they approach the left edge of the document; however, the text directly underneath the curving lines is perfectly straight. How is that possible? Shouldn't the binding that bends the paper curve the separator lines and text equally?

habsheaven
08-03-2012, 12:23 PM
But as an individual voter, I don't care. So long as he is within the law.

Yes, but when you are trying to create a narrative for all the undecided, impressionable voters, NIL tax returns go a long way in creating that narrative. It only makes sense, when trying to win an election, to attack your opponent where he is weakest. For Romney, his extreme wealth is a weakness. Like it or not.

Edit: and to tie that thought into this thread. That is why people attack Obama in the ways that they do. His name looks foreign, his background is not your typical american background, etc. Republicans can claim all they want that their questions are legit, but we all know why they continue to ask them.

pghin08
08-03-2012, 12:34 PM
I wrote this a few months ago on the Obama birther thing:


Article II, Section I of the Constitution states:

"No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

There's no doubting that he matches the last two qualifications. But those alone, to most people, do not qualify you to be President. That's a fair enough assessment. So, we go back to whether or not he is a citizen of the United States.

You have to go to Title 8 of the United States Code to truly determine this. However, it's very clear. United States Code, Title 8, Chapter 12, Subchapter III, Part I, Section 1401-G reads as follows:

"A person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years"

Again, let's go through it. Obama's father, Barack Sr., though he was a U of Hawaii student, was an alien. Nobody is saying that Barack's dad was a US citizen at that time. However, he ended up marrying Stanley Ann Dunham, Barack Jr.'s mother, prior to Barack Jr.'s birth.

So now we look at Stanley Ann Dunham, the President's mother. Born in Wichita, Kansas in 1942. When she was young, her and her family moved around a lot, but all within the U.S. After graduating from high school in 1960, she and her family moved to Hawaii (which had become the 50th state the year prior).

How does she measure up to HER qualifications then? She was in the United States for her entire childhood, and the whole time up to Barack's birth. Therefore, Stanley Ann Dunham qualifies under Title 8 of the United States Code to have her son, Barack Hussein Obama, obtain legal US citizenship upon his birth. It doesn't matter AT ALL where Obama was born, only that he was born to Stanley Ann Dunham.

Therefore, he has no reason to forge the birth certificate, because where he was born is irrelevant. Who he was born to is the issue.

Wickabee
08-03-2012, 01:24 PM
Very well....

I DEMAND to see Willard "Mitt" (STUPID NAME!!!) Romney's Birth Certificate!!!!

And Until I see it.....I will believe that he is a MEXICAN just like his Father!!!

Mitt's white. Of course he's American.

ALADOG
08-03-2012, 03:10 PM
So do you actually believe that President Obama made it this far w/o providing proof that he is a legally born US citizen? If you do I got some swampland in Arizona that I would be willing to trade you for some of your cards.

I just plainly explained the difference between the two situations and you go off on a tangent. Typical liberal, deflect from the matter at hand.

mrveggieman
08-03-2012, 03:17 PM
I just plainly explained the difference between the two situations and you go off on a tangent. Typical liberal, deflect from the matter at hand.


What are you explaining? You keep grasping at straws that somehow you, the birthers, and tea party's wildest dream comes true that our president was not legally born in the united states. That is typically conservative behavior to deflect from the real issues in order to go into some grand conspiracy about how 1 man was able to fool the entire us gov't to believe that he was actually born here when he was not. Let's talk about romney's income taxes. Why is he so secretive about that? Let's talk about why he wants to repeal obama care even though he formed a similiar program in mass.

ALADOG
08-03-2012, 03:23 PM
What are you explaining? You keep grasping at straws that somehow you, the birthers, and tea party's wildest dream comes true that our president was not legally born in the united states. That is typically conservative behavior to deflect from the real issues in order to go into some grand conspiracy about how 1 man was able to fool the entire us gov't to believe that he was actually born here when he was not. Let's talk about romney's income taxes. Why is he so secretive about that? Let's talk about why he wants to repeal obama care even though he formed a similiar program in mass.
Why do you refuse to accept that the law has been followed by Romney. Oh Yeah, you can't run Obama on his record so you make up artificial issues.

Wickabee
08-03-2012, 03:27 PM
Why do you refuse to accept that the law has been followed by Romney. Oh Yeah, you can't run Obama on his record so you make up artificial issues.

How is that different from convincing millions of Americans, even today, that Obama is from Kenya?

tpeichel
08-03-2012, 03:50 PM
I wrote this a few months ago on the Obama birther thing:


Article II, Section I of the Constitution states:

"No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

There's no doubting that he matches the last two qualifications. But those alone, to most people, do not qualify you to be President. That's a fair enough assessment. So, we go back to whether or not he is a citizen of the United States.

You have to go to Title 8 of the United States Code to truly determine this. However, it's very clear. United States Code, Title 8, Chapter 12, Subchapter III, Part I, Section 1401-G reads as follows:

"A person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years"

Again, let's go through it. Obama's father, Barack Sr., though he was a U of Hawaii student, was an alien. Nobody is saying that Barack's dad was a US citizen at that time. However, he ended up marrying Stanley Ann Dunham, Barack Jr.'s mother, prior to Barack Jr.'s birth.

So now we look at Stanley Ann Dunham, the President's mother. Born in Wichita, Kansas in 1942. When she was young, her and her family moved around a lot, but all within the U.S. After graduating from high school in 1960, she and her family moved to Hawaii (which had become the 50th state the year prior).

How does she measure up to HER qualifications then? She was in the United States for her entire childhood, and the whole time up to Barack's birth. Therefore, Stanley Ann Dunham qualifies under Title 8 of the United States Code to have her son, Barack Hussein Obama, obtain legal US citizenship upon his birth. It doesn't matter AT ALL where Obama was born, only that he was born to Stanley Ann Dunham.

Therefore, he has no reason to forge the birth certificate, because where he was born is irrelevant. Who he was born to is the issue.

I don't believe that was the law at the time of his birth, that is current law.

mrveggieman
08-03-2012, 03:57 PM
I don't believe that was the law at the time of his birth, that is current law.

President Obama did not run for President at the time of birth. He ran/is running for president in 2008/2012.

Wickabee
08-03-2012, 03:58 PM
I love how so many people simultaneously believe America is the greatest country on Earth AND America has allowed an alien to illegally take power of said country. Wouldn't one negate the other? Either it's the greatest country or you've let an outsider run it for 4 years. Your call, guys.

habsheaven
08-03-2012, 04:01 PM
I don't believe that was the law at the time of his birth, that is current law.

If I am reading the law right, it looks like it came into effect in the 50's before Obama was born.

tpeichel
08-03-2012, 04:05 PM
President Obama did not run for President at the time of birth. He ran/is running for president in 2008/2012.

If he wasn't a citizen at birth, did they go back and give effected people citizenship when the law was changed?

tpeichel
08-03-2012, 04:17 PM
If I am reading the law right, it looks like it came into effect in the 50's before Obama was born.

I think this is the key sentence, "for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years"


That was changed in 1994.

The 1952 version required five years after fourteen instead of two. President Obama's mother wasn't 19 at the time of birth so she didn't meet the criteria and any children she had outside of the country would not be granted citizenship, which seems trivial to me when we see Mexican women crossing into America to give birth to babies and we grant their babies U.S. citizenship.

I don't think it will make any difference in the next election, but I think it will be fascinating for future generations to look back at this controversy and wonder how the President was able to pass off such a poorly forged birth certificate to the American public with so little push back.

shrewsbury
08-03-2012, 04:19 PM
yeah, I am sure Harry Reid would have no ill intentions, so I am sure the phone call was real.

but anyone asking about Obama's college applications or even grades in just a racist liar

the fact is they can't dig up any dirt on romney so they stoop to making allegations and saying prove I am wrong.

reverse that and we have the birthers, prove them wrong (which I am not one)

habsheaven
08-03-2012, 04:27 PM
I think this is the key sentence, "for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years"


That was changed in 1994.

The 1952 version required five years after fourteen instead of two. President Obama's mother wasn't 19 at the time of birth so she didn't meet the criteria and any children she had outside of the country would not be granted citizenship, which seems trivial to me when we see Mexican women crossing into America to give birth to babies and we grant their babies U.S. citizenship.

I don't think it will make any difference in the next election, but I think it will be fascinating for future generations to look back at this controversy and wonder how the President was able to pass off such a poorly forged birth certificate to the American public with so little push back.

Looks like that change actually occurred in 1986.

Wickabee
08-03-2012, 04:32 PM
yeah, I am sure Harry Reid would have no ill intentions, so I am sure the phone call was real.
As real as the "3AM Phone Call"


but anyone asking about Obama's college applications or even grades in just a racist liar
I understand the sentiment, but can you tell me how sarcasm like this, which I'm seeing and hearing from darn near everyone on all sides, furthers any conversation and fosters bipartisanship?
Once you answer that, you may see what the real problem with America is.


the fact is they can't dig up any dirt on romney so they stoop to making allegations and saying prove I am wrong.
Kind of like saying Obama is from Kenya because he's never proven he isn't?


reverse that and we have the birthers, prove them wrong (which I am not one)
Exactly. Both sides are making the same stupid arguments and then telling each other those arguments are stupid. What exactly is wrong with America again?

habsheaven
08-03-2012, 04:33 PM
yeah, I am sure Harry Reid would have no ill intentions, so I am sure the phone call was real.

but anyone asking about Obama's college applications or even grades in just a racist liar

the fact is they can't dig up any dirt on romney so they stoop to making allegations and saying prove I am wrong.

reverse that and we have the birthers, prove them wrong (which I am not one)

I'd be willing to bet the phone call was real. Paying $0 in taxes on a tax return is the only legitimate reason for why he hasn't made any more returns public.

tpeichel
08-03-2012, 04:38 PM
I'd be willing to bet the phone call was real. Paying $0 in taxes on a tax return is the only legitimate reason for why he hasn't made any more returns public.

Harry Reid made the comment to get people to think exactly what you wrote.

Wickabee
08-03-2012, 04:40 PM
Harry Reid made the comment to get people to think exactly what you wrote.

If he doesn't want people to think that, why doesn't Mitt release the returns, legal requirement or not?

habsheaven
08-03-2012, 04:45 PM
Harry Reid made the comment to get people to think exactly what you wrote.

Can you offer any other reason why he would not just put an end to the speculation and release his returns?

theonedru
08-03-2012, 04:48 PM
If Obama was white or had a non Muslim sounding name would any of this be an issue to anyone........... Its funny how we bicker over stupid little things and let the big issues slide right by us, as a nation we are no where near as smart as we claim...........

shrewsbury
08-03-2012, 04:50 PM
yes, because they would be twisted to show something negative about him.

just like when Obama showed his BC, then the birthers said it was fake or altered.

they don't want to prove anything about him, just put a negative thought about him in your head, and they have

tpeichel
08-03-2012, 04:55 PM
If he doesn't want people to think that, why doesn't Mitt release the returns, legal requirement or not?

Not sure.

Why has Obama sealed all of his records?

Wickabee
08-03-2012, 04:55 PM
yes, because they would be twisted to show something negative about him.

just like when Obama showed his BC, then the birthers said it was fake or altered.

they don't want to prove anything about him, just put a negative thought about him in your head, and they have

So the Republicans think they have the right to do that but Democrats don't? Okay, I officially believe Reid now and will until it's proven wrong (and even after that I won't believe what is presented) because turnabout is fair play.

ROMNEY HAS NEVER PAID TAXES!

Wickabee
08-03-2012, 04:56 PM
Not sure.

Why has Obama sealed all of his records?

Because he's President.

Or are you trying to say Romney is as bad as Obama?

ensbergcollector
08-03-2012, 05:54 PM
my opinion on this is as follows:

don't criticize anything about your opponents records if you won't reveal your own.

sealed records are sealed for a reason and I have issue with someone's sealed records being "leaked"

shrewsbury
08-03-2012, 06:02 PM
wickabee, so your approach is to do unto others like they do unto you?

is this how liberals think or just you?

not saying it or you are bad or wrong, just curious

i treat others how I would like to be treated, if that doesn't work, then I don't put myself in a position to deal with them

this is an example

so in other words, if you like to be called names, them start name calling

if you don't want people to call you names, then don't start name calling

did we not have a huge thread a while back about how it is not up to you to disprove something but others to prove it?

so why should romney have to disprove anything, lets see reid and the other dems prove it

Wickabee
08-03-2012, 06:18 PM
wickabee, so your approach is to do unto others like they do unto you?
No. I believe in not stooping to the level of those worse than you. At the same time, there is something to be said about turnabout being fair play. I have more problem with the Republicans doing something and then going nuts when the Dems do "the same" than I have with the Dems doing "the same". The Republicans doing it is wrong. The Democrats doing it is wrong. Both sides criticizing the other for doing something they have done themselves is double wrong.


is this how liberals think or just you?
How am I supposed to speak for all liberals? No offense, stupid (or baiting) question.


not saying it or you are bad or wrong, just curious
Understood, but I still can't speak for all liberals. Maybe it is just me, maybe it's most or all liberals, maybe it's human nature and it doesn't matter if you're con or lib. I don't know.


i treat others how I would like to be treated, if that doesn't work, then I don't put myself in a position to deal with them
I try to do the same, but it doesn't always work out. For either of us, I'm guessing.


this is an example

so in other words, if you like to be called names, them start name calling

if you don't want people to call you names, then don't start name calling
The flipside is if you start name calling, don't be surprised to hear a few names coming back at you.


did we not have a huge thread a while back about how it is not up to you to disprove something but others to prove it?

so why should romney have to disprove anything, lets see reid and the other dems prove it

I agree and no, he doesn't have to do anything, just as Obama shouldn't have to continue hearing he's from Kenya, he's a Muslim, he's a communist, he's a fascist, etc, etc.
The thing I don't understand is Conservatives/Republicans getting up in arms about Romney's taxes after how Obama has been treated. If he was really Kenyan, do you think he would have even been allowed to run? 4 years ago it was "We accuse him of being non-American born and he has to prove us wrong!" Now it's "Romney doesn't have to prove anything, you have to prove YOUR accusations!"
That's about as hypocritical as anyone can get. There's also the matter of, we know Obama wasn't born in Kenya, but Hawaii. That information was brought forth. If Romney and the Republicans want these (admittedly kind of stupid) accusations to stop and the accusations are completely wrong, why doesn't he show them?

As much as everyone was crying "HE WON'T SHOW US HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE! HE'S HIDING SOMETHING!" No one should be surprised that now it's come back at them with this tax business.

INTIMADATOR2007
08-03-2012, 08:20 PM
Why should Romney show any more tax records , Did ya'll forget we have a tax cheat hired by Obama running the IRS .. Where's the outrage Harry ?

MadMan1978
08-03-2012, 08:22 PM
When is Obama gonna run on his record ? Is this all you guy's can come up with , really ? chasing a tax return is pitiful.

wait right there I got some new articles

habsheaven
08-03-2012, 08:23 PM
Why should Romney show any more tax records , Did ya'll forget we have a tax cheat hired by Obama running the IRS .. Where's the outrage Harry ?

He should show his tax records to shut Harry up and prove him wrong. Besides, no one is accusing him of being a tax cheat, and the IRS guy is not a presidential candidate.

duwal
08-03-2012, 08:40 PM
i see you calling out the conservatives but I don't see you having any problem with the left calling for romney's tax returns.


I'm on the right and I'd like to know what Romney is hiding before he gets my vote. If I was going for an elected position and they asked for my tax forms I'd have no problem giving them the information because I know it would be clean and they would look like they were grasping at straws

Wickabee
08-03-2012, 09:20 PM
Why should Romney show any more tax records , Did ya'll forget we have a tax cheat hired by Obama running the IRS .. Where's the outrage Harry ?

Because at this point, if he doesn't, he's basically admitting all the accusations are correct.

cardmasters
08-03-2012, 10:29 PM
I don't trust no polition. I belive if it was something that makes them look good they will use it in the election and if it makes them look bad they hide or don't remember. They are already twisting each other words.

INTIMADATOR2007
08-04-2012, 09:56 AM
He should show his tax records to shut Harry up and prove him wrong. Besides, no one is accusing him of being a tax cheat, and the IRS guy is not a presidential candidate.
No one is accusing him of being a tax cheat ? Harry Reid went to the floor of the senate accusing him of not paying for 10 years , That to me is calling him a tax cheat . And if it's ok for the Head of the IRS to cheat it should be good for all to cheat . Besides How can Romney not have paid taxes for 10 years when he has been running for president for 8 years . This whole Romney hasn't paid taxes thing is just a distraction for Obama's failed polices and gives him something to lie about instead of him flat out lying about his record .

INTIMADATOR2007
08-04-2012, 10:00 AM
Because at this point, if he doesn't, he's basically admitting all the accusations are correct.
And if he does it is a no win situation for him also . They will find a very little minor something and run with it for weeks , Therefore killing more time before the election so Obama doesn't have to run on his record. The only way Obama has won an election is to follow the rules of radicals . Identify, distort and destroy.Check his history of election wins to get to the senate.

habsheaven
08-04-2012, 10:14 AM
No one is accusing him of being a tax cheat ? Harry Reid went to the floor of the senate accusing him of not paying for 10 years , That to me is calling him a tax cheat . And if it's ok for the Head of the IRS to cheat it should be good for all to cheat . Besides How can Romney not have paid taxes for 10 years when he has been running for president for 8 years . This whole Romney hasn't paid taxes thing is just a distraction for Obama's failed polices and gives him something to lie about instead of him flat out lying about his record .

Then YOU need to educate yourself on how the tax system works. People LEGALLY avoid paying taxes all the time in all kinds of LEGAL ways. Once again, people hear what isn't being said. Reid said he paid no taxes, he did not say he cheated. You are right though, it is a distraction. That's what politicians do in campaigns. Romney could remove the distraction by simply releasing the returns and shutting Harry up, but he doesn't. I wonder why?

duane1969
08-04-2012, 12:38 PM
Not going to waste my time reading this whole thread. Just answering the question posed in the OP.

A. Birthers are not asking for Romney's tax records because birth certificates and tax records are not related. That question is about as logical as asking why the gay rights people aren't fighting to legalize wolf hunting.

B. There is no logical reason to demand tax records that are a decade old. In an era that needs Americans to come together the Great Divider is not hesitating to stoop to any low to increase his divisive tactics and create a distraction from the important issues facing us in this election.

You want tax records? How about thiese? Since Obama became president my tax payout has increased exponentially every year. That is the only tax records that I care about.

MadMan1978
08-04-2012, 12:45 PM
Not going to waste my time reading this whole thread. Just answering the question posed in the OP.

A. Birthers are not asking for Romney's tax records because birth certificates and tax records are not related. That question is about as logical as asking why the gay rights people aren't fighting to legalize wolf hunting.

B. There is no logical reason to demand tax records that are a decade old. In an era that needs Americans to come together the Great Divider is not hesitating to stoop to any low to increase his divisive tactics and create a distraction from the important issues facing us in this election.

You want tax records? How about thiese? Since Obama became president my tax payout has increased exponentially every year. That is the only tax records that I care about.

I most respectfully disagree. With the Bain issue still in the open, he needs to prove he was not part of the management during the questioned years. and this would do that. Second, If he wants to prove he is part of the "people" and not so disconnected for the real Ameroca's he needs to show them. Public will opinion will convict him until he does so. In my opinion he clearly has something to hide. I am sorry your taxes increased, but its called paying your fair share.

habsheaven
08-04-2012, 12:51 PM
Not going to waste my time reading this whole thread. Just answering the question posed in the OP.

A. Birthers are not asking for Romney's tax records because birth certificates and tax records are not related. That question is about as logical as asking why the gay rights people aren't fighting to legalize wolf hunting.

B. There is no logical reason to demand tax records that are a decade old. In an era that needs Americans to come together the Great Divider is not hesitating to stoop to any low to increase his divisive tactics and create a distraction from the important issues facing us in this election.

You want tax records? How about thiese? Since Obama became president my tax payout has increased exponentially every year. That is the only tax records that I care about.

Duane, you are talking like a politician or a statistician. Did you pay more in taxes each year or what? Has your income increased each year? If you are trying to say your income stayed the same and your tax liability increased then you are in the minority.

duane1969
08-04-2012, 01:04 PM
I most respectfully disagree. With the Bain issue still in the open, he needs to prove he was not part of the management during the questioned years. and this would do that. Second, If he wants to prove he is part of the "people" and not so disconnected for the real Ameroca's he needs to show them. Public will opinion will convict him until he does so. In my opinion he clearly has something to hide. I am sorry your taxes increased, but its called paying your fair share.

Reid making a claim that Romney paid no taxes for 10 years is just stupid. If that was true then by now the IRS would have been all over it. Lending any credence to the claim is silly. Romney should not have to reveal his tax records to disprove something that carries no weight.

ensbergcollector
08-04-2012, 01:13 PM
Because at this point, if he doesn't, he's basically admitting all the accusations are correct.

do you have issue with obama locking all his school records with threat of lawsuit?

MadMan1978
08-04-2012, 01:16 PM
Reid making a claim that Romney paid no taxes for 10 years is just stupid. If that was true then by now the IRS would have been all over it. Lending any credence to the claim is silly. Romney should not have to reveal his tax records to disprove something that carries no weight.


why not? I am really if he has nothing to hid thren show them...it ends all the crap?

and he said he paid not taxes does not mean he evaded paying taxes...Because the State of mass would have been all over him and taken his Driver license! (inside joke)

duane1969
08-04-2012, 02:02 PM
Duane, you are talking like a politician or a statistician. Did you pay more in taxes each year or what? Has your income increased each year? If you are trying to say your income stayed the same and your tax liability increased then you are in the minority.

Between 2010 and 2011 tax returns my personal income dropped around $16k due to a forced job change. My wife's income increase around $8k due to a voluntary job change. Our net taxable income actually declined around $8k. We paid right at $2k more in taxes than we ever have before and we actually had more in deductions than ever before because my wife was able to claim work related travel expenses. I am not sure where you get that we are in the minority because a lot of our friends also had to pay more with no change in jobs and only a small scheduled cost of living increase of 1-3%.

Wickabee
08-04-2012, 02:02 PM
do you have issue with obama locking all his school records with threat of lawsuit?

What will his school records prove? He's already had to deal with this Kenya BS. I'm not saying Reid's statement was true by any means. I truly don't know. But No one asked McCain for a birthcertificate. No one doubted George W's American status. But hey, let's harass the black guy, right?

No, he's already gone through this crap. If there really was anything in those records, the Republicans would have really gone after him for it. Once they realized how stupid Kenya made them look, they stopped asking, until now.

Let the Republicans squirm. Let history show Obama is American and Romney either paid no taxes (legally or otherwise), was officially running Bane at a time when he's already said he wasn't, or gave money to some organizations that most Republicans wouldn't like.

duane1969
08-04-2012, 02:06 PM
why not? I am really if he has nothing to hid thren show them...it ends all the crap?

and he said he paid not taxes does not mean he evaded paying taxes...Because the State of mass would have been all over him and taken his Driver license! (inside joke)

Because just because Harry Reid throws out some unsubstantiated claims that he won't even provide a source for does not mean that Romney is automatically obligated to prove them wrong. That is a double-standard. Reid refuses to reveal his source but Romney is supposed to reveal his tax records to prove an anonymous source to be wrong. Not hardly.

When Reid reveals his source of the claim and it is proven to be a credible source then I will support Romney revealing his tax records. If Reid is not obligated to reveal his source then Romney is not obligated to reveal his tax records to prove a probably non-existant source to be false.

duane1969
08-04-2012, 02:12 PM
What will his school records prove? He's already had to deal with this Kenya BS. I'm not saying Reid's statement was true by any means. I truly don't know. But No one asked McCain for a birthcertificate. No one doubted George W's American status. But hey, let's harass the black guy, right?

No, he's already gone through this crap. If there really was anything in those records, the Republicans would have really gone after him for it. Once they realized how stupid Kenya made them look, they stopped asking, until now.

Let the Republicans squirm. Let history show Obama is American and Romney either paid no taxes (legally or otherwise), was officially running Bane at a time when he's already said he wasn't, or gave money to some organizations that most Republicans wouldn't like.

I don't disagree that the birther stuff is weak, but using McCain and Bush as an excuse is hardly a good argument. Both have a long history that is easily confirmed without a birth certificate. A look back at Obama's history is full of gaps, missing times and nothingness. There are no Obama childhood friends, no Obama childhood school recounts by teachers, no records of little league baseball or soccer, very few childhood pictures of him in in America...toss in questions about his birthplace and suddenly you have a big question being asked.

And the "attack the black guy" thing is even weaker. There is no evidence that the birther movement was racially motivated.

Wickabee
08-04-2012, 02:12 PM
Because just because Harry Reid throws out some unsubstantiated claims that he won't even provide a source for does not mean that Romney is automatically obligated to prove them wrong. That is a double-standard. Reid refuses to reveal his source but Romney is supposed to reveal his tax records to prove an anonymous source to be wrong. Not hardly.

When Reid reveals his source of the claim and it is proven to be a credible source then I will support Romney revealing his tax records. If Reid is not obligated to reveal his source then Romney is not obligated to reveal his tax records to prove a probably non-existant source to be false.

Who's idea was the Kenya bit? Seriously, conservatives are such hypocrites but never admit it. You got hit with your own game. Deal with it or go home crying.

habsheaven
08-04-2012, 02:20 PM
Reid making a claim that Romney paid no taxes for 10 years is just stupid. If that was true then by now the IRS would have been all over it. Lending any credence to the claim is silly. Romney should not have to reveal his tax records to disprove something that carries no weight.

Why would the IRS be all over it? If, through the tax system, he can legitimately write off his tax liability in a particular year the IRS is not going to care. You keep making the assumption that, paying no taxes equates to cheating. It simply doesn't. Why can you not grasp that?

Wickabee
08-04-2012, 02:33 PM
And Romney is a mega-rich man who wants to cut taxes for the mega rich. Well let's see if the mega rich really need tax cuts, or if they just want to pay even less than the 0.00% the loopholes for...

duane1969
08-04-2012, 03:31 PM
Why would the IRS be all over it? If, through the tax system, he can legitimately write off his tax liability in a particular year the IRS is not going to care. You keep making the assumption that, paying no taxes equates to cheating. It simply doesn't. Why can you not grasp that?

OK, so Reid is either:

A) Accusing Romney of tax evasion (which only truly stupid people who don't understand the IRS would believe)

or

B) Reid is accusing Romney of filing his tax returns and by means of legal exception did not have to pay millions in taxes which means that the liberal left is once again demonizing the rich and using devisive tactics.

Either way, Reid is an idiot and this is entire discussion is moot.

duane1969
08-04-2012, 03:37 PM
Here is the funny part in all of that. I am using some hypothetical numbers here that I am sure taxman could clear up, but generally a family household of 4 can earn around $50,000 and get back every...

Wickabee
08-04-2012, 03:43 PM
Here is a novel idea. Everybody who works pays taxes. No loopholes. No decutions. No credits. No breaks for donations to charity or political campaigns. No deductions for ANYTHING and no excuse for not paying. If you earned, you pay. Period.

I could keep deductions for charitable donations, but not political campaigns. Does your plan include capital gains? I'm assuming you're including small business deduction in this as well.

duane1969
08-04-2012, 03:55 PM
I could keep deductions for charitable donations, but not political campaigns. Does your plan include capital gains? I'm assuming you're including small business deduction in this as well.

All or none. If one person has no right to deductions or breaks then nobody has a right to them. If we are going to demonize the rich for using tax breaks and deductions then we need to demonize the working poor, lower class and middle class for taking deductions and breaks too.

Wickabee
08-04-2012, 03:58 PM
All or none. If one person has no right to deductions or breaks then nobody has a right to them. If we are going to demonize the rich for using tax breaks and deductions then we need to demonize the working poor, lower class and middle class for taking deductions and breaks too.

The difference is the rich go out of their way to pay no taxes and then claim "We need to tax people with lower incomes! We need to stop government spending because we're out of money!"

Maybe if the rich were paying fair taxes instead of using the loopholes their lawyers and accountants found for them, it wouldn't be so difficult to pay for social programs.

Or you can cut your bloated military spending, your call.

tpeichel
08-04-2012, 06:32 PM
The difference is the rich go out of their way to pay no taxes and then claim "We need to tax people with lower incomes! We need to stop government spending because we're out of money!"

Maybe if the rich were paying fair taxes instead of using the loopholes their lawyers and accountants found for them, it wouldn't be so difficult to pay for social programs.

Or you can cut your bloated military spending, your call.

I keep hearing people say that the wealthy do not pay there fair share of taxes. What percent of income tax do you think is the fair share for the top 1%, 10%, 25%, and 50% of earners to pay?

Wickabee
08-04-2012, 06:42 PM
I keep hearing people say that the wealthy do not pay there fair share of taxes. What percent of income tax do you think is the fair share for the top 1%, 10%, 25%, and 50% of earners to pay?

I'm not going to throw out a tax percentage, but I will say that keeping one's taxable income in the country to be taxed instead of sending offshore to be taxed much lower (or not at all) by some other country, or paying taxes on 100% of your taxable income, is a fair share. I'll leave the government to figure out the actual percentage that income should be taxed, be it on a scale or a flat rate.

So to answer, 100% of taxable income.

MadMan1978
08-04-2012, 07:33 PM
I keep hearing people say that the wealthy do not pay there fair share of taxes. What percent of income tax do you think is the fair share for the top 1%, 10%, 25%, and 50% of earners to pay?

It think it is more then a percentage. I think at times it is the unfair advantage given the rich and super rich in regards to deductions and tax shelters. I say 40% is a good start was well as removing a large number of tax shelters

MadMan1978
08-04-2012, 11:02 PM
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/600008_447643518602923_1168581346_n.jpg

Such a shame....
really I wonder how ????

tpeichel
08-05-2012, 01:34 AM
It think it is more then a percentage. I think at times it is the unfair advantage given the rich and super rich in regards to deductions and tax shelters. I say 40% is a good start was well as removing a large number of tax shelters

The top 1% already pay nearly 40% of all income taxes, even with tax shelters, and the bottom 50% pay no income taxes at all. Not really sure how much more "fair" you can make it.

Wickabee
08-05-2012, 03:02 AM
The top 1% already pay nearly 40% of all income taxes, even with tax shelters, and the bottom 50% pay no income taxes at all. Not really sure how much more "fair" you can make it.

What percentage of wealth do those two groups have.

MadMan1978
08-05-2012, 09:16 AM
The top 1% already pay nearly 40% of all income taxes, even with tax shelters, and the bottom 50% pay no income taxes at all. Not really sure how much more "fair" you can make it.

prove your numbers ,,,I think your not even close!

tpeichel
08-05-2012, 11:27 AM
prove your numbers ,,,I think your not even close!

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2012/07/the-top-20-paid-94-of-income-taxes-in.html

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jQNf-k-3WO8/UAdMWipK4dI/AAAAAAAAT0s/LzfR6GRrG7c/s1600/tax3.jpg

MadMan1978
08-05-2012, 11:42 AM
first never believe in some ultra conservative blog

and again is the top 20% is making 90% of the income should pay their fair share!
good try! Conservatives always try to distort the true

tpeichel
08-05-2012, 11:46 AM
first never believe in some ultra conservative blog

and again is the top 20% is making 90% of the income should pay their fair share!
good try! Conservatives always try to distort the true

He sourced the Congressional Budget Office, feel free to verify.

habsheaven
08-05-2012, 12:30 PM
The graph adds up to 138.8%?

shrewsbury
08-05-2012, 12:37 PM
it is a fact that 50% of americans don't pay income taxes and the top 1% pay nearly 50%

how this link for you?

http://www.kiplinger.com/features/archives/how-your-income-stacks-up.html


That's right. One percent of taxpayers reported almost 17% of all taxable income. But that same tiny group also kicked in 37% of all the taxes paid.

Read more: http://www.kiplinger.com/features/archives/how-your-income-stacks-up.html#ixzz22gcyPqJL
Become a Fan of Kiplinger's on Facebook
Read more at http://www.kiplinger.com/features/archives/how-your-income-stacks-up.html#Hpdg4EUu8K1QsIyJ.99

MadMan1978
08-05-2012, 12:46 PM
it is a fact that 50% of americans don't pay income taxes and the top 1% pay nearly 50%

how this link for you?

http://www.kiplinger.com/features/archives/how-your-income-stacks-up.html


and they should be those numbers pay the most income tax...
and please DO NOT EVEN Start the trickle down effect...it doesnt work

MadMan1978
08-05-2012, 12:47 PM
ok we need to return to the topic

Wickabee
08-05-2012, 01:26 PM
The graph adds up to 138.8%?

Well this was glossed right over.

mikesilvia
08-05-2012, 02:29 PM
Speaking of taxes returns.

The IRS has released its Federal Employee and Retiree Delinquency Inventory, and it shows that 36 of Obama’s aides owe a total of $833,970 in back taxes.

Other government employees owe a lot, too. At the Environmental Protection Agency, 413 people owe more than $19 million; at the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp., which is supposed to “maintain stability and public confidence in the nation’s financial system,” 185 employees owe more than $3 million; and five people at the U.S. Tax Court owe $62,508.

Obama has repeatedly called on the rich to pay more taxes to help lower the deficit. He has used the billionaire investor Warren Buffett as a poster child, saying that under the “Buffett rule,” people making more than $1 million a year should pay a 30 percent tax rate.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/01/obamas-aides-owe-some-money-in-back-taxes/

tpeichel
08-05-2012, 02:29 PM
Well this was glossed right over.

The fifth quintile is the top 20% and the 1% is the subset of the top quintile. The five quintiles should add up to 100%.

MadMan1978
08-05-2012, 02:32 PM
Speaking of taxes returns.

The IRS has released its Federal Employee and Retiree Delinquency Inventory, and it shows that 36 of Obama’s aides owe a total of $833,970 in back taxes.

Other government employees owe a lot, too. At the Environmental Protection Agency, 413 people owe more than $19 million; at the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp., which is supposed to “maintain stability and public confidence in the nation’s financial system,” 185 employees owe more than $3 million; and five people at the U.S. Tax Court owe $62,508.

Obama has repeatedly called on the rich to pay more taxes to help lower the deficit. He has used the billionaire investor Warren Buffett as a poster child, saying that under the “Buffett rule,” people making more than $1 million a year should pay a 30 percent tax rate.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/01/obamas-aides-owe-some-money-in-back-taxes/

Really and with has what to do with the topic?
deflecting some more...

MadMan1978
08-05-2012, 02:32 PM
The fifth quintile is the top 20% and the 1% is the subset of the top quintile. The five quintiles should add up to 100%.


in simpler term
Republicans say they pay for everything

tpeichel
08-05-2012, 02:33 PM
and they should be those numbers pay the most income tax...
and please DO NOT EVEN Start the trickle down effect...it doesnt work

I don't think anyone disagrees that the people that earn the most income should also pay the most tax, but what we keep hearing is that the wealthy don't pat their fair share. If the top 20% is paying over 90% of the income tax and the top 1% are paying 35-40%, doesn't that seem like the wealthy are already paying their fair share?

Wickabee
08-05-2012, 02:45 PM
I don't think anyone disagrees that the people that earn the most income should also pay the most tax, but what we keep hearing is that the wealthy don't pat their fair share. If the top 20% is paying over 90% of the income tax and the top 1% are paying 35-40%, doesn't that seem like the wealthy are already paying their fair share?

I'm going to say this yet again.
Fair share = No offshore money for the purpose of lower taxes and no shelters or loopholes for the wealthy. It's not difficult.

MadMan1978
08-05-2012, 02:51 PM
I don't think anyone disagrees that the people that earn the most income should also pay the most tax, but what we keep hearing is that the wealthy don't pat their fair share. If the top 20% is paying over 90% of the income tax and the top 1% are paying 35-40%, doesn't that seem like the wealthy are already paying their fair share?
NO!

the simple answer

theonedru
08-05-2012, 02:56 PM
My question is why has this been rolling for 10 pages, the OP and the title are enough to show how ridiculous the thread was meant to be.

Birthers do not care about who pays what taxes...

Wickabee
08-05-2012, 03:02 PM
My question is why has this been rolling for 10 pages, the OP and the title are enough to show how ridiculous the thread was meant to be.

Birthers do not care about who pays what taxes...

Is "birther" a political group or something?

I thought it was just the people who were after Obama's BC. The answer would be "because they're conservatives" or "they're a group of people who hate Obama for being Obama"

Ultimately that group will vote Romney no matter what.

tpeichel
08-05-2012, 04:15 PM
NO!

the simple answer

Okay, you previously said that the "fair share" for the top 1% was around 40% which is roughly where they are at now. In your eyes, is their "fair share" really more like 50, 60 or 70 percent?

MadMan1978
08-05-2012, 04:30 PM
No the top rate is 35%

you are distorting numbers and trying to blind the water
you talk of the amount of income paid...not rates

MadMan1978
08-05-2012, 04:30 PM
and again stay on topic
that has nothing to do with the topic...