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MadMan1978
08-03-2012, 08:25 PM
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/robert-schlesinger/2012/08/03/tax-returns-and-now-tax-policywhats-mitt-romney-hiding

from US News and World Report



from a LIBERAL SOURCE which says the same things
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/08/03/the-latest-on-romneys-tax-plan-it-helps-the-rich-and-hurts-the-poor/


However I would LOVE to read the Tax Policy Center's report

habsheaven
08-03-2012, 08:50 PM
The article basically says just what I posted on the other thread (and didn't get a single response, lol) Romney's camp is taking Abe's advice, better to stay silent (not release taxes) and be thought a fool than it is to speak (release taxes) and remove all doubt.

MadMan1978
08-03-2012, 08:53 PM
I Did find the report...
here is the Abstract

ABSTRACT
This paper examines the tradeoffs among three competing goals that are inherent in a revenue-neutral income tax reform—maintaining tax revenues, ensuring a progressive tax system, and lowering marginal tax rates—drawing on the example of the tax policies advanced in presidential candidate Mitt Romney’s tax plan. Our major conclusion is that any revenue-neutral individual income tax change that incorporates the features Governor Romney has proposed would provide large tax cuts to high-income households, and increase the tax burdens on middle- and/or lower-income taxpayers.

Sounds like the old Ronnie plan

JustAlex
08-03-2012, 08:56 PM
More on the disastrous Tax plan from Romney:

http://theweek.com/article/index/231457/would-mitt-romney-actually-raise-taxes-on-95-percent-of-americans

Basically, we're all paying more, while the Richest Americans get even MORE tax breaks.


ALL HAIL THE UNITED STATES OF PLUTOCRACY!

MadMan1978
08-03-2012, 08:56 PM
The article basically says just what I posted on the other thread (and didn't get a single response, lol) Romney's camp is taking Abe's advice, better to stay silent (not release taxes) and be thought a fool than it is to speak (release taxes) and remove all doubt.

My opinion is that if he did people would learn he really did not pay taxes or a fair share. As well learn that he was paid from Bain longer then he said. BUT trust me in the State of Mass He paid TAXES! but only on his salary

Wickabee
08-03-2012, 09:08 PM
The article basically says just what I posted on the other thread (and didn't get a single response, lol) Romney's camp is taking Abe's advice, better to stay silent (not release taxes) and be thought a fool than it is to speak (release taxes) and remove all doubt.

Was that Lincoln? One of my favourite quotes, along with "People who like this sort of thing will find this to be the sort of thing they like".

Lincoln would have been great in today's world of soundbites.

habsheaven
08-03-2012, 09:36 PM
I personally like: "Never argue with a fool. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

Probably not a direct quote and I don't know who came up with it, but it is good.

Yes, Abe and a few others would have been great for TV.

Wickabee
08-03-2012, 10:30 PM
I personally like: "Never argue with a fool. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

Probably not a direct quote and I don't know who came up with it, but it is good.

Yes, Abe and a few others would have been great for TV.

That one's great, and healthy advice for around here (users who will beat you with experience include...I'm sure you know.

tpeichel
08-04-2012, 11:45 AM
More on the disastrous Tax plan from Romney:

http://theweek.com/article/index/231457/would-mitt-romney-actually-raise-taxes-on-95-percent-of-americans

Basically, we're all paying more, while the Richest Americans get even MORE tax breaks.


ALL HAIL THE UNITED STATES OF PLUTOCRACY!

I love that he believes that the government should only spend the money that it is able to tax from the citizens. If Romney becomes President, maybe we'll even have a Congress that can pass a budget.

Balancing the budget is a huge challenge since spending has skyrocketed. I'm curious to see how he would do it. Romney has made some broad statements on his plans, then this article uses those assumptions to make some educated guesses on how he would do it, and then Alex links to it and adds his own sound bite analysis.

I want to see the details, but eliminating deficit spending is a huge first step.

MadMan1978
08-04-2012, 12:06 PM
I love that he believes that the government should only spend the money that it is able to tax from the citizens. If Romney becomes President, maybe we'll even have a Congress that can pass a budget.

Balancing the budget is a huge challenge since spending has skyrocketed. I'm curious to see how he would do it. Romney has made some broad statements on his plans, then this article uses those assumptions to make some educated guesses on how he would do it, and then Alex links to it and adds his own sound bite analysis.

I want to see the details, but eliminating deficit spending is a huge first step.

first CUTS ACROSS THE BOARD ARE REQUIRED
EVEN the Military spending!


The Mitt plan DOES NOT even come close to this!

tpeichel
08-04-2012, 12:08 PM
first CUTS ACROSS THE BOARD ARE REQUIRED
EVEN the Military spending!


The Mitt plan DOES NOT even come close to this!

I agree. How much has Obama cut?

JustAlex
08-04-2012, 12:24 PM
first CUTS ACROSS THE BOARD ARE REQUIRED
EVEN the Military spending!


The Mitt plan DOES NOT even come close to this!
I'm ALL for Cuts.....Cut the military budget by at least 30-50%......watch how much money the U.S saves!

Our Military is such an utter failure, I don't know why we keep throwing money at it like a drunk guy at a strip club.

duane1969
08-04-2012, 12:30 PM
I agree. How much has Obama cut?

Dang! Beat me to it.

I love how the libs will jump on the bandwagon to bash Romney's tax ideas while conveniently ignoring that their Messiah has done nothing for 4 years but increase defecit spending, fight tooth and nail to raise taxes and pass Obamacare which is just one big tax increase on every working person in America.

shrewsbury
08-04-2012, 12:33 PM
alex, WOW!

I am thankful for our military and all those who are in it. The service they give is second to none and the risk they take for all of us, the ones that allow you to post such things, is like no other.

You are foolish to think we would be where we are if it was not for our military and the sacrifice they and there family have given to us.

you will never know what it is like to watch your child leave for war, or have a family member die protecting our rights.

not that I agree with all the "wars" we have been in in the last 20 years.

INTIMADATOR2007
08-04-2012, 12:40 PM
I'm ALL for Cuts.....Cut the military budget by at least 30-50%......watch how much money the U.S saves!

Our Military is such an utter failure, I don't know why we keep throwing money at it like a drunk guy at a strip club.
Some should think before they post !

JustAlex
08-04-2012, 12:43 PM
Shrew, do you think I like speaking the way I do about my own country? <br />
<br />
I do it because it's the truth, and as a free thinker the truth is the only thing I seek. <br />
<br />
I AM very thankful for your...

duane1969
08-04-2012, 12:44 PM
alex, WOW!

I am thankful for our military and all those who are in it. The service they give is second to none and the risk they take for all of us, the ones that allow you to post such things, is like no other.

You are foolish to think we would be where we are if it was not for our military and the sacrifice they and there family have given to us.

you will never know what it is like to watch your child leave for war, or have a family member die protecting our rights.

not that I agree with all the "wars" we have been in in the last 20 years.

I am surprised that Obama hasn't already thought to cut military spending by 50%. Then there would be an even better excuse to raise taxes to cover the cost of unemployment and welfare on an additional 1 million misplaced troops plus their spouses and children. I bet Obama could figure out a way to raise taxes to 99% or even 100% on everyone making over $250,000 with that excuse.

MadMan1978
08-04-2012, 12:48 PM
I'm ALL for Cuts.....Cut the military budget by at least 30-50%......watch how much money the U.S saves!

Our Military is such an utter failure, I don't know why we keep throwing money at it like a drunk guy at a strip club.

Sorry Alex first with this you are on your own.

I 100% disagree with you.
and you can only cut that budget as to the same rate you cut everything else

JustAlex
08-04-2012, 12:50 PM
Sorry Alex first with this you are on your own.

I 100% disagree with you.
and you can only cut that budget as to the same rate you cut everything else

That's OK, I don't expect many to agree with this one.....the great thing about being a liberal is having free thoughts and not having to agree with the "group" on every issue.

I have my reasons, and I stand for them.

MadMan1978
08-04-2012, 12:51 PM
I agree. How much has Obama cut?
firs this doesnt have anything to do with the topic

and this is what I expect from the Slow Conservative thinks-See other thread.

Like Clinton Obama will have to cut-there is no choice-Where is the question.
and please save those ideas fro another topic and stay on this topic

JustAlex
08-04-2012, 12:53 PM
Another thing.....what is our military protecting us from?

Another 9/11?

That's almost impossible the way things are now!

Why isn't Europe fighting meaningless wars.....Radical Muslims hate Europe just as much as the U.S, and they have also targeted their cities (London in 2005, and Madrid in 2004).

Why aren't they terrified the way the U.S is???


If we had EVERY single soldier home we could defend our country just fine.....we've done so for decades.

The U.S needs to STOP playing "world police" they have done a terrible job at it.

MadMan1978
08-04-2012, 12:53 PM
That's OK, I don't expect many to agree with this one.....the great thing about being a liberal is having free thoughts and not having to agree with the "group" on every issue.

I have my reasons, and I stand for them.

Hope so you have open a can of something thats not smelling too fresh....

MadMan1978
08-04-2012, 12:56 PM
I am surprised that Obama hasn't already thought to cut military spending by 50%. Then there would be an even better excuse to raise taxes to cover the cost of unemployment and welfare on an additional 1 million misplaced troops plus their spouses and children. I bet Obama could figure out a way to raise taxes to 99% or even 100% on everyone making over $250,000 with that excuse.

duane really ?

and they wonder why i thumb my nose at conservatives.

duane1969
08-04-2012, 01:09 PM
duane really ?

and they wonder why i thumb my nose at conservatives.

Obama's #1 goal is to raise taxes. His policy from day 1 has been to increase tax revenue. Think back to 2007 when he was trying to get the Dem nomination and the whole plumber guy thing. He has always been about raising taxes. Always.

Does my hypothetical seem a little far fetched? Yes, but I bet you $100 that if suddenly there were 1 million more unemployed people the first thing that Obama would do is increase funding to entitlement programs immediately followed by trying to increase taxes to cover it.

tpeichel
08-04-2012, 01:28 PM
I'm ALL for Cuts.....Cut the military budget by at least 30-50%......watch how much money the U.S saves!

Our Military is such an utter failure, I don't know why we keep throwing money at it like a drunk guy at a strip club.

No need to make such drastic cuts and our military is the one thing our government does pretty well.

I initially supported the wars in the Middle East, but after seeing where we are after ten years it's hard to objectively say it has been positive. Plus, it makes no sense to spend the money maintaining the war when there is no clear objective for "winning" and we need to borrow money to fight the war.

I think we should pull back the vast majority of our troops from the Middle East but leave what we need to support special forces operations. I'd redeploy some of the forces to seal our southern border to stop drug and human trafficing while we finished the border fence that Bush started. Finally, I would aggressively pursue domestic development of all our energy resources as well as building the Keystone Pipeline to take advantages of resources in North America which would weaken our enemies in the Middle East. (This will create many jobs, drive down energy prices, and increase Federal Revenue to help balance the budget.)

MadMan1978
08-04-2012, 01:30 PM
Obama's #1 goal is to raise taxes. His policy from day 1 has been to increase tax revenue. Think back to 2007 when he was trying to get the Dem nomination and the whole plumber guy thing. He has always been about raising taxes. Always.

Does my hypothetical seem a little far fetched? Yes, but I bet you $100 that if suddenly there were 1 million more unemployed people the first thing that Obama would do is increase funding to entitlement programs immediately followed by trying to increase taxes to cover it.

Ok first never have I seen any other plan to raise taxes other on those who can afford to pay them, people with incomes of milion plus. The last few plans, which the teapublicans killed, DID NOT RAISE TAXS on the middle calss or the low income families. And your trickle down , the GW started again, IS NOT WORKING!...it never has! So unless you are making a million plus or in fact 250K plus your argument is mute.

The Romeny plan ios the wrong direction AGAIN! We dont need more supply side trickle down economics


A better idea is to eliminate the Corporate tax. However you would have to tax capital gains at same rate of personal income. yes one of you heroes
idea's. well the second half anyway.

JustAlex
08-04-2012, 01:41 PM
No need to make such drastic cuts and our military is the one thing our government does pretty well.
OK, I understand how some of you guys are patriotic and proud of the U.S.....I get that.

But how can you really believe that our military is something our government does well???

This is probably the main thing our government screws up with.

10 YEARS and we're still in the middle east.....is that a success???

How many BILLIONS do you need to kill ONE guy.

How many countries do we need to leave in ruins and still not accomplish our goals?


DO you guys realize the MAIN reason the world hates the U.S is because of it's military and all the terrible things they have done?

Such as TORTURE POWs and start illegal wars?

MadMan1978
08-04-2012, 01:48 PM
A questions for all the teapublicans

Why are not defending the Romeny Plan?

I find your lack of defense and then deflecting a bit curious

duane1969
08-04-2012, 01:50 PM
Ok first never have I seen any other plan to raise taxes other on those who can afford to pay them, people with incomes of milion plus. The last few plans, which the teapublicans killed, DID NOT RAISE TAXS on the middle calss or the low income families. And your trickle down , the GW started again, IS NOT WORKING!...it never has! So unless you are making a million plus or in fact 250K plus your argument is mute.

The Romeny plan ios the wrong direction AGAIN! We dont need more supply side trickle down economics


A better idea is to eliminate the Corporate tax. However you would have to tax capital gains at same rate of personal income. yes one of you heroes
idea's. well the second half anyway.

Taking money out of the hands of companies and putting it in government coffers will never, ever result in more jobs or a decrease in governemnt spending. Obama's stimulus is proof positive that government spending doesn't create jobs and we all know that the more the government has the more they spend. Heck, they spend more even when they don't have it.

Look at it from a corporate standpoint. The government takes measures that increases how much you pay in taxes. You drop from a 25% profit margin to a 15% profit margin as a result. What do you do to increase your profit margin?

A) Hire more employees and build more buildings
B) Raise prices on your consumers (which is everyone including the middle class, lower class and working poor)
C) Lay off workers, close factories and increase the workload on the remaining workers causing labor issues

B & C are the answer.

With B the taxes are not directly raised on the middle class, lower class and working poor, but there is no doubt that they pay for the tax increase.

tpeichel
08-04-2012, 01:57 PM
OK, I understand how some of you guys are patriotic and proud of the U.S.....I get that.

But how can you really believe that our military is something our government does well???

This is probably the main thing our government screws up with.

10 YEARS and we're still in the middle east.....is that a success???

How many BILLIONS do you need to kill ONE guy.

How many countries do we need to leave in ruins and still not accomplish our goals?


DO you guys realize the MAIN reason the world hates the U.S is because of it's military and all the terrible things they have done?

Such as TORTURE POWs and start illegal wars?

You're talking about the most effective military in the history of the world. Political decisions for how they are deployed are a completely different animal.

MadMan1978
08-04-2012, 02:10 PM
Ok confused
So E LIMITING the Corporate tax is wrong?

Wickabee
08-04-2012, 02:10 PM
Romney has tax ideas? The only thing I've really seen in any interviews is him explaining the process of being a President.

duane1969
08-04-2012, 02:13 PM
Ok confused
So E LIMITING the Corporate tax is wrong?

I was meaning to refer to corporate gains taxes.

MadMan1978
08-04-2012, 10:37 PM
Some interesting number to swallow

Of COURSE the Teapublicans will claim this is false....

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/300323_275124972521446_1408184760_n.jpg

MadMan1978
08-04-2012, 11:08 PM
Ya know us Lazy Liberals
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/524437_447518331948775_1536073811_n.jpg


So Daune you make over the 200K? because from all the reports you need to be in the bracket to get a tax cut under Romney

Wickabee
08-05-2012, 02:56 AM
Something about rich Republicans wanting average people to pay everything.

JustAlex
08-05-2012, 05:59 AM
C'mon guys.....Rich people are the "job creators"....and despite having the LOWEST tax rates compared to other first world countries, having a million loopholes, and hiding their money offshore, they STILL need more tax breaks, obviously that's only FAIR! :rolleyes:

tpeichel
08-05-2012, 11:39 AM
C'mon guys.....Rich people are the "job creators"....and despite having the LOWEST tax rates compared to other first world countries, having a million loopholes, and hiding their money offshore, they STILL need more tax breaks, obviously that's only FAIR! :rolleyes:

So you do your job searching by talking to the homeless guy on the street? You need excess capital to create jobs and that usually isn't the poor.

MadMan1978
08-05-2012, 11:48 AM
wow again the REPUBLICANS have yet to defend this plan!
Really? this is Sad....instead you try to point fingers...deflect...and spread false statements...

MadMan1978
08-05-2012, 11:51 AM
So you do your job searching by talking to the homeless guy on the street? You need excess capital to create jobs and that usually isn't the poor.
and to go off topic..

the TRICKLE down is not working! It never worked! hence the reason to suggest to eliminate corporate income tax...
what would that allow? close to an estimated 1 TRILLION dollars in possible investment money for these companies...

ok back to the topic!

Wickabee
08-05-2012, 01:20 PM
So you do your job searching by talking to the homeless guy on the street? You need excess capital to create jobs and that usually isn't the poor.

You need to create those jobs in America. Not India, not China, America.
Those job creators need to keep their money in America to be taxed properly. Sending money offshore for the purpose of tax evasion should be considered Treason.

MadMan1978
08-06-2012, 12:20 PM
I see now of learned friends from the pool of GOP supporters here are coming to the aid or to even defend the Romney Tax plan.

MadMan1978
08-07-2012, 11:07 PM
http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/08/07/us-usa-campaign-obama-robinhood-idINBRE87603320120807

Wickabee
08-07-2012, 11:13 PM
http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/08/07/us-usa-campaign-obama-robinhood-idINBRE87603320120807

A rich Republican wants average Americans to pay for everything so he doesn't have to pay anything. Shock!

Wickabee
08-07-2012, 11:13 PM
http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/08/07/us-usa-campaign-obama-robinhood-idINBRE87603320120807

A rich Republican wants average Americans to pay for everything so he doesn't have to pay anything. Shock!

shrewsbury
08-07-2012, 11:25 PM
This has turned into a republican bashing thread, some of you know better.

you cry about romney, but yet Obama has done nothing and has had the chance. comparing this to clinton, who were the main people who made clintons budget so great? I will give you a hint, one of the main guys is now the governor of my state.

alex, free thinking? or free attacking? i am betting most of us who post on a regular basis do not blindly follow a dang thing, even the ones I constantly disagree with.

AUTaxMan
08-07-2012, 11:31 PM
I think I'm missing something. Where's the part in Romney's tax plan where taxes are raised on the middle class?

Wickabee
08-07-2012, 11:33 PM
I'm sorry shrew but all I've seen from the GOP is promises of tax cuts followed by "for the wealthy" in a whisper. Leave them in power long enough and the bottm 50% will be footing 100% of the tax burden.

AUTaxMan
08-07-2012, 11:37 PM
Leave them in power long enough and the bottm 50% will be footing 100% of the tax burden.

The bottom 50% currently pay 0% of the tax burden, so we would need a complete role reversal for that to happen. To even insinuate that it will or that anyone even wants this result is ridiculous.

MadMan1978
08-07-2012, 11:37 PM
This has turned into a republican bashing thread, some of you know better.

you cry about romney, but yet Obama has done nothing and has had the chance. comparing this to clinton, who were the main people who made clintons budget so great? I will give you a hint, one of the main guys is now the governor of my state.

alex, free thinking? or free attacking? i am betting most of us who post on a regular basis do not blindly follow a dang thing, even the ones I constantly disagree with.

So defend his tax plan!
But no you turn and turn to attack!

Fact is Taxes have never been lower in this country (By rates)

Jay- Obama and Clinton have Nothing to do with this. I asked about the Romney tax Plan. Which is catching all kinds of heat. But no one here supports it? This is the guy you are backing right?

Quickly frankly I am tired of the dirt threads. have a real debate on a platform of the candidate.

For my personal opinion we need REAL tax reform! to look at every tax we have period!

oh and by the way, once Newt and pals when during Clinton's Terms...didn't we go into a deficit after he was forced to eat a tax cut???? hmmmmm

AS for Romney-His job here in Mass really doenst mean he was good at it. In fact most here are so glad he left!

Wickabee
08-07-2012, 11:40 PM
The bottom 50% currently pay 0% of the tax burden, so we would need a complete role reversal for that to happen. To even insinuate that it will or that anyone even wants this result is ridiculous.

If you say so. I know you're right because you said it. No need to explain your point or defend your position. You're right because you said what you think and what you, AUTaxman, think is always right.

In short, you've already lost any credibility with me in that other thread. You can earn it back by explaining your views and defending your positions and not making accusation, insults and attacks. When you can do that, I'll listen to what you have to say.

AUTaxMan
08-07-2012, 11:41 PM
Fact is Taxes have never been lower in this country (By rates)

This is not true.

AUTaxMan
08-07-2012, 11:45 PM
If you say so. I know you're right because you said it. No need to explain your point or defend your position. You're right because you said what you think and what you, AUTaxman, think is always right.

In short, you've already lost any credibility with me in that other thread. You can earn it back by explaining your views and defending your positions and not making accusation, insults and attacks. When you can do that, I'll listen to what you have to say.

http://blog.heritage.org/2012/02/19/chart-of-the-week-nearly-half-of-all-americans-dont-pay-income-taxes/

"accusation, insults and attacks"? what are you talking about?

AUTaxMan
08-07-2012, 11:46 PM
http://blog.heritage.org/2012/02/19/chart-of-the-week-nearly-half-of-all-americans-dont-pay-income-taxes/

To clarify, when I said 0% of the tax burden, I was referring to the income tax.

Wickabee
08-07-2012, 11:51 PM
http://blog.heritage.org/2012/02/19/chart-of-the-week-nearly-half-of-all-americans-dont-pay-income-taxes/
I'll look into it, but I'd also like to hear your take on an issue.


"accusation, insults and attacks"? what are you talking about?
See: Your posts in the gay rights thread. Don't press any further on this. It's really not worth my time. Just up your game.

AUTaxMan
08-07-2012, 11:54 PM
I'll look into it, but I'd also like to hear your take on an issue.


See: Your posts in the gay rights thread. Don't press any further on this. It's really not worth my time. Just up your game.

You have heard my take. I stated a fact and gave my opinion based on that fact and on your comment. I then supported the fact that I stated with a link because you wouldn't take my word for it. What else do you want?

MadMan1978
08-08-2012, 12:05 AM
This is not true.

ok so I will re-qualify this statement
Since since You pal Reagan
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/sep/22/barack-obama/barack-obama-says-taxes-are-lower-today-under-reag/

side note: The tops rate which I was very surprised to the top rate cut during the Reagan years from 69.13% to 28%

MadMan1978
08-08-2012, 12:07 AM
The bottom 50% currently pay 0% of the tax burden, so we would need a complete role reversal for that to happen. To even insinuate that it will or that anyone even wants this result is ridiculous.
Your wrong

and that is the normal GOP Statement.
A better is why you not defending the Romney Tax Plan?

MadMan1978
08-08-2012, 12:08 AM
You have heard my take. I stated a fact and gave my opinion based on that fact and on your comment. I then supported the fact that I stated with a link because you wouldn't take my word for it. What else do you want?
If the source wasnt so bias it would carry more weight.

AUTaxMan
08-08-2012, 12:09 AM
If the source wasnt so bias it would carry more weight.

How is the article biased? What is inaccurate about the facts asserted?

AUTaxMan
08-08-2012, 12:13 AM
Your wrong

and that is the normal GOP Statement.
A better is why you not defending the Romney Tax Plan?

I'll have to study the plan to form an educated opinion on it. Generally, I like the sound of across the board tax cuts. I know that the alternative is higher taxes for many Americans, so my uneducated opinion is that Romney's plan (whatever it is), is better than Obama's, which is at the very least a combination of letting the Bush tax cuts expire (at least in part) and enforcing Obamacare, which also will cause taxes to increase.

Wickabee
08-08-2012, 01:36 AM
You have heard my take. I stated a fact and gave my opinion based on that fact and on your comment. I then supported the fact that I stated with a link because you wouldn't take my word for it. What else do you want?

I may have confusex you with another. If I did I fully apolgize.

mrveggieman
08-08-2012, 10:06 AM
A rich Republican wants average Americans to pay for everything so he doesn't have to pay anything. Shock!

Sounds just like how the republicans feel about men who marry their daughters.

MadMan1978
08-08-2012, 10:12 AM
I'll have to study the plan to form an educated opinion on it. Generally, I like the sound of across the board tax cuts. I know that the alternative is higher taxes for many Americans, so my uneducated opinion is that Romney's plan (whatever it is), is better than Obama's, which is at the very least a combination of letting the Bush tax cuts expire (at least in part) and enforcing Obamacare, which also will cause taxes to increase.
So you are Ok with YOUR taxes increasing while the top earners will receive ANOTHER tax break ?
and please remember you are discussing the Romney plan

AUTaxMan
08-08-2012, 10:31 AM
So you are Ok with YOUR taxes increasing while the top earners will receive ANOTHER tax break ?
and please remember you are discussing the Romney plan

How are my taxes going to increase?

Wickabee
08-08-2012, 01:10 PM
Like it or not, someone has to pay. Not everything can be paid for by cutting programs.

AUTaxMan
08-08-2012, 01:14 PM
Like it or not, someone has to pay. Not everything can be paid for by cutting programs.

I am specifically asking how my taxes are going to go up under the Romney tax plan. Can anyone provide the answer?

Wickabee
08-08-2012, 01:46 PM
I am specifically asking how my taxes are going to go up under the Romney tax plan. Can anyone provide the answer?

Sure, ask Romney how he plans to pay for the tax cuts to the wealthy.

AUTaxMan
08-08-2012, 03:00 PM
Sure, ask Romney how he plans to pay for the tax cuts to the wealthy.

How is he planning on cutting taxes for the wealthy?

Wickabee
08-08-2012, 03:08 PM
How is he planning on cutting taxes for the wealthy?

You can't really be that uninformed.

AUTaxMan
08-08-2012, 03:13 PM
You can't really be that uninformed.

Can you just answer the question please? I want to know the specifics about the tax cuts for the rich.

Wickabee
08-08-2012, 03:19 PM
Can you just answer the question please? I want to know the specifics about the tax cuts for the rich.

Then look into the platform of the guy you're voting for. Or do you prefer to vote without knowing what he plans on doing (I would find that easier too).

I'm not google and you're the one voting. Why should I inform you of what you should, but apparently don't, already know.

AUTaxMan
08-08-2012, 03:28 PM
Then look into the platform of the guy you're voting for. Or do you prefer to vote without knowing what he plans on doing (I would find that easier too).

I'm not google and you're the one voting. Why should I inform you of what you should, but apparently don't, already know.

You're the one making the claim. I want you to substantiate it for me, like you have requested that I do for factual assertions that I make. I would even take a cliff's notes version from you if you can articulate something more specific than "he's going cut taxes for the rich." All this thread has established is 20% across the board tax cuts. Last time I checked, across the board means everyone, not just the rich.

Wickabee
08-08-2012, 03:45 PM
You're the one making the claim. I want you to substantiate it for me, like you have requested that I do for factual assertions that I make. I would even take a cliff's notes version from you if you can articulate something more specific than "he's going cut taxes for the rich." All this thread has established is 20% across the board tax cuts. Last time I checked, across the board means everyone, not just the rich.

I'm not making the claim, I'm reporting the news. If you are informed , then you already know I am right. If you seriously don't know this how can you vote for him?

I would bet you do know.and this is just another of your circular arguments where you say nothing. I'm really tired of these and wish you would bring something to the table instead of just complaining about what's already there.

Wickabee
08-08-2012, 04:06 PM
And if you go strictly by what is in thread here then you are what is wrong with America.

AUTaxMan
08-08-2012, 04:23 PM
I'm not making the claim, I'm reporting the news. If you are informed , then you already know I am right. If you seriously don't know this how can you vote for him?

I would bet you do know.and this is just another of your circular arguments where you say nothing. I'm really tired of these and wish you would bring something to the table instead of just complaining about what's already there.

http://taxpolicycenter.org/taxtopics/romney-plan.cfm

An excerpt:

Individual income tax rates decline by 20 percent, as shown:

Current Rate 10% 15% 25% 28% 33% 35%
New Rate 8% 12% 20% 22.4% 26.4% 28%

Please show me the tax cuts for the rich only. They don't exist.

Wickabee
08-08-2012, 04:32 PM
Oh, you're only talking income tax. Ok then. Completely shortsighted to ignore everything else, but yes, you're correct.

AUTaxMan
08-08-2012, 04:44 PM
Oh, you're only talking income tax. Ok then. Completely shortsighted to ignore everything else, but yes, you're correct.

What are you referring to? If you would be more specific, like I have been asking, this conversation could progress much faster.

Wickabee
08-08-2012, 04:54 PM
Repealing tax breaks for students. Repealing the Child tax credit. You know stuff that rich people.don't need and everyone else will gloss over.

AUTaxMan
08-08-2012, 05:16 PM
Repealing tax breaks for students. Repealing the Child tax credit. You know stuff that rich people.don't need and everyone else will gloss over.

Instead of glossing over those ourselves, let's talk about them with a little specificity.

American Opportunity Credit

Under the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA), more parents and students qualify for a tax credit, the American opportunity credit, to pay for college expenses.

The American opportunity credit originally modified the existing Hope credit for tax years 2009 and 2010, and was later extended for an additional two years – 2011 and 2012, making the benefit available to a broader range of taxpayers, including many with higher incomes and those who owe no tax. It also adds required course materials to the list of qualifying expenses and allows the credit to be claimed for four post-secondary education years instead of two. Many of those eligible qualify for the maximum annual credit of $2,500 per student.

The full credit is available to individuals whose modified adjusted gross income is $80,000 or less, or $160,000 or less for married couples filing a joint return. The credit is phased out for taxpayers with incomes above these levels. These income limits are higher than under the existing Hope and lifetime learning credits.




Rolling back the expansion of the Hope credit is not a tax increase. First of all, it is not a complete elimination of the tax credit. It is merely a scaling back to pre-stimulus years. This is essentially a handout to people paying for post-secondary education. $1,000 of it per year is refundable. That is, you can go to college on student loans, not have a job, and get a $1,000 check from the government for doing no more than filing a tax return showing $0 income. Additionally, those who do take advantage of it only get it for a limited period of time. Repealing this, to me, does not constitute a tax increase on middle and lower class families. It is the elimination of a recently-created government handout.

mrveggieman
08-08-2012, 05:22 PM
Instead of glossing over those ourselves, let's talk about them with a little specificity.

American Opportunity Credit

Under the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA), more parents and students qualify for a tax credit, the American opportunity credit, to pay for college expenses.

The American opportunity credit originally modified the existing Hope credit for tax years 2009 and 2010, and was later extended for an additional two years – 2011 and 2012, making the benefit available to a broader range of taxpayers, including many with higher incomes and those who owe no tax. It also adds required course materials to the list of qualifying expenses and allows the credit to be claimed for four post-secondary education years instead of two. Many of those eligible qualify for the maximum annual credit of $2,500 per student.

The full credit is available to individuals whose modified adjusted gross income is $80,000 or less, or $160,000 or less for married couples filing a joint return. The credit is phased out for taxpayers with incomes above these levels. These income limits are higher than under the existing Hope and lifetime learning credits.




Rolling back the expansion of the Hope credit is not a tax increase. First of all, it is not a complete elimination of the tax credit. It is merely a scaling back to pre-stimulus years. This is essentially a handout to people paying for post-secondary education. $1,000 of it per year is refundable. That is, you can go to college on student loans, not have a job, and get a $1,000 check from the government for doing no more than filing a tax return showing $0 income. Additionally, those who do take advantage of it only get it for a limited period of time. Repealing this, to me, does not constitute a tax increase on middle and lower class families. It is the elimination of a recently-created government handout.


Taxman I don't want to be in your business and you don't have to answer this if you don't want to but how did you pay for your college and law school? Did your family take care of it or did your recieve financial aid?

AUTaxMan
08-08-2012, 05:23 PM
Taxman I don't want to be in your business and you don't have to answer this if you don't want to but how did you pay for your college and law school? Did your family take care of it or did your recieve financial aid?

Scholarships and parents took care of college. I took out loans (and had a little scholarship money) for law school and masters. Will be paying those babies off for many, many years. The student loan check I write every month would take your breath away.

Wickabee
08-08-2012, 06:15 PM
Must be nice to have gotten those scholarships and have parents to afford to help you.

AUTaxMan
08-08-2012, 06:28 PM
Must be nice to have gotten those scholarships and have parents to afford to help you.

Yeah, I didn't work hard for those scholarships or anything like that. They just give them out to everyone. If no parent help, I would have borrowed the money. It was very nice of them though. They sacrificed a lot for us.

Wickabee
08-08-2012, 06:30 PM
Yeah, I didn't work hard for those scholarships or anything like that. They just give them out to everyone. If no parent help, I would have borrowed the money.

They hand them out to everyone? Why didn't I get one then. I worked hard, I applied but, nothing came my way.

Try not to call me an idiot again.

AUTaxMan
08-08-2012, 06:33 PM
They hand them out to everyone? Why didn't I get one then. I worked hard, I applied but, nothing came my way.

Try not to call me an idiot again.

I'm not sure where you are getting that from, but I don't appreciate the insinuation that I didn't have to bust my butt to get to where I am today. I never said or even thought anything about you while writing that post.

Wickabee
08-08-2012, 06:35 PM
I'm not sure where you are getting that from, but I don't appreciate the insinuation that I didn't have to bust my butt to get to where I am today. I never said or even thought anything about you while writing that post.

I didn't appreciate the insinuation that I know one must work for a scholarship, one would have to be an idiot to think that. And I didn't say you didn't work hard, one would have to be an idiot to think that as well. So you basically called me an idiot, twice now.

I'm saying a lots of people work just as hard and are left out of scholarships. You may have worked your butt off, but you were still lucky too.

shrewsbury
08-08-2012, 06:40 PM
well my wife and i both decided to go back to school. she has been going on and off since we were married, and 20 years ago we had to take some loans. I never went back so it is something like 20+ years for me, should be fun, and now we are empty nesters, it is a good way to use our time.
I would rather be using my money to educate myself than to pay more taxes. higher education is are only good tax break left, now that the kids are grown.

so I guess I am up there with romney and the guys trying to not pay my fair share of taxes, but I think they take way too much from us. what we pay out of our paychecks is more than you would believe, then they want 5-6k more at the end of the year, atleast education can still be used as a right off, unless someone messes that up next.

AUTaxMan
08-08-2012, 06:46 PM
I didn't appreciate the insinuation that I know one must work for a scholarship, one would have to be an idiot to think that. And I didn't say you didn't work hard, one would have to be an idiot to think that as well. So you basically called me an idiot, twice now.

I'm saying a lots of people work just as hard and are left out of scholarships. You may have worked your butt off, but you were still lucky too.

I don't think you're an idiot, but I also don't think people are "left out" of scholarships. Scholarships are earned. If you don't get one, it's because someone more qualified in the eyes of the grantor did. It's not about luck. Of course more goes into earning them than just hard work. Intelligence and well-roundedness go into it as well. (For the record, I am not saying that you are not intelligent or well-rounded.)

Wickabee
08-08-2012, 06:51 PM
I don't think you're an idiot, but I also don't think people are "left out" of scholarships. Scholarships are earned. If you don't get one, it's because someone more qualified in the eyes of the grantor did. It's not about luck.

Two people equally qualified are up for one scholarship. Who get's it?

And luck isn't involved...ok!

AUTaxMan
08-08-2012, 06:55 PM
Two people equally qualified are up for one scholarship. Who get's it?

And luck isn't involved...ok!

There is no such thing as equally qualified. I am on a scholarship board. There is always a way to distinguish between recipients and non-recipients.

Wickabee
08-08-2012, 07:00 PM
There is no such thing as equally qualified. I am on a scholarship board. There is always a way to distinguish between recipients and non-recipients.

Sounds easy. I pick players for minor hockey teams. There's always 5 equal kids looking to take the last 2 spots.

AUTaxMan
08-08-2012, 07:01 PM
Sounds easy. I pick players for minor hockey teams. There's always 5 equal kids looking to take the last 2 spots.

I never said it was easy. Since it's just luck at that point, do you draw 2 names out of a hat?

Wickabee
08-08-2012, 07:08 PM
I never said it was easy. Since it's just luck at that point, do you draw 2 names out of a hat?

Nope, whichever kids you get the overall better feeling from. Usually it works out, sometimes it really doesn't. I've seen kids get cut "on the bubble" as it were only to excel at a lower level and end up not only making the team later on, but thriving on it. I've also seen kids get picked that ended up unable to keep up with the pace over the long term, or have a bad attitude that was well hidden during tryouts. But at that moment, when you're working on nothing but intangibles, it's luck no matter how you look at it. Maybe you have a similar interest as the scholarship coach, and maybe that plays into it. Maybe you just said something, one innocuous phrase that stuck with the coach for some unknown reason. Whatever it is, if it isn't ability/grades, it's more than likely luck.

AUTaxMan
08-08-2012, 07:38 PM
Nope, whichever kids you get the overall better feeling from. Usually it works out, sometimes it really doesn't. I've seen kids get cut "on the bubble" as it were only to excel at a lower level and end up not only making the team later on, but thriving on it. I've also seen kids get picked that ended up unable to keep up with the pace over the long term, or have a bad attitude that was well hidden during tryouts. But at that moment, when you're working on nothing but intangibles, it's luck no matter how you look at it. Maybe you have a similar interest as the scholarship coach, and maybe that plays into it. Maybe you just said something, one innocuous phrase that stuck with the coach for some unknown reason. Whatever it is, if it isn't ability/grades, it's more than likely luck.

Intangibles and personalities are developed over time. They are attributes, though partially innate, attained in no small order through life experiences. Having a set of intangibles and being able to convince someone to take a chance on you over someone else is not luck. Developing leadership skills is not luck. Drawing names out of a hat is luck.

Back to topic. Do you consider repealing the government handouts enacted in the 2009 stimulus to be a tax hike? If so, why?

Wickabee
08-08-2012, 07:55 PM
Intangibles and personalities are developed over time. They are attributes, though partially innate, attained in no small order through life experiences. Having a set of intangibles and being able to convince someone to take a chance on you over someone else is not luck. Developing leadership skills is not luck. Drawing names out of a hat is luck.
I disagree, but whatever.


Back to topic. Do you consider repealing the government handouts enacted in the 2009 stimulus to be a tax hike? If so, why?
What do you consider the opposite of a tax cut to be?

AUTaxMan
08-08-2012, 10:59 PM
I disagree, but whatever.


What do you consider the opposite of a tax cut to be?

The opposite of tax cuts is tax increases. Refundable tax credits are not tax cuts. They are government checks for doing nothing.

Wickabee
08-08-2012, 11:12 PM
The opposite of tax cuts is tax increases. Refundable tax credits are not tax cuts. They are government checks for doing nothing.

Ok, I realize how it's not an income tax increase. But if something makes people end up paying more taxes, how is that not a tax increase? Just because you now pay and are refunded doesn't mean there's any more money going back to ordinary people. But hey, who cares, as long as the wealthy get the same tax cuts...and then some more. We can pay for it by making the middle class pay more in taxes than they do now.

You do see where this leads, right?

AUTaxMan
08-08-2012, 11:37 PM
Ok, I realize how it's not an income tax increase. But if something makes people end up paying more taxes, how is that not a tax increase? Just because you now pay and are refunded doesn't mean there's any more money going back to ordinary people. But hey, who cares, as long as the wealthy get the same tax cuts...and then some more. We can pay for it by making the middle class pay more in taxes than they do now.

You do see where this leads, right?

If you pay zero income taxes and receive check for $1,000, taking the $1,000 away and still having a zero income tax liability is not a tax increase. It is tax neutral.

Wickabee
08-09-2012, 01:42 AM
If you pay zero income taxes and receive check for $1,000, taking the $1,000 away and still having a zero income tax liability is not a tax increase. It is tax neutral.

I question your math. How is $1000 to zero neutral?

AUTaxMan
08-09-2012, 12:14 PM
I question your math. How is $1000 to zero neutral?

Because the $1,000 is not a tax refund. For it to be a refund, you had to have first paid something to the IRS. If I pay $1,000 to the IRS and because of a tax credit, I later receive a $1,000 check from them, that is a tax refund. If I pay $0 to the IRS and they write me a check for $1,000, I am not being refunded anything. Merely because the check comes from the Dept of the Treasury does not mean that it is a tax refund.

Wickabee
08-09-2012, 01:13 PM
Because the $1,000 is not a tax refund. For it to be a refund, you had to have first paid something to the IRS. If I pay $1,000 to the IRS and because of a tax credit, I later receive a $1,000 check from them, that is a tax refund. If I pay $0 to the IRS and they write me a check for $1,000, I am not being refunded anything. Merely because the check comes from the Dept of the Treasury does not mean that it is a tax refund.
The end result is less money in ths hands of peopel more in the hands of governmet. You can call it whatever you want to justify it it, but it's Romney saying he can spend that money better than the people. Like O said justify it howver you like to sleep at night. You know what it is.

tpeichel
08-09-2012, 01:40 PM
The end result is less money in ths hands of peopel more in the hands of governmet. You can call it whatever you want to justify it it, but it's Romney saying he can spend that money better than the people. Like O said justify it howver you like to sleep at night. You know what it is.

No, the government didn't spend it, it just took it from one citizen and gave it to another while using part of the money it collected to pay for the overhead to manage the distribution program.

Wickabee
08-09-2012, 01:43 PM
No, the government didn't spend it, it just took it from one citizen and gave it to another while using part of the money it collected to pay for the overhead to manage the distribution program.

...

I didn't say the government spent anything. Romney is going to make life more difficult for the middle class because he thinks he can spend that money better.

MadMan1978
08-09-2012, 01:49 PM
The end result is less money in ths hands of people more in the hands of government. You can call it whatever you want to justify it it, but it's Romney saying he can spend that money better than the people. Like O said justify it however you like to sleep at night. You know what it is.

See what you dont understand is that the Republicans do like this since they arent getting any of the $$$$

tpeichel
08-09-2012, 01:56 PM
No, the government didn't spend it, it just took it from one citizen and gave it to another while using part of the money it collected to pay for the overhead to manage the distribution program.

Plus they have to borrow the money from future productivity and pay interest on it so it is even more inefficient. (Not to mention the rampant fraud in the entire process.)

tpeichel
08-09-2012, 01:57 PM
...

I didn't say the government spent anything. Romney is going to make life more difficult for the middle class because he thinks he can spend that money better.

Do you mean Romney as an individual or as part of the government?

Wickabee
08-09-2012, 01:58 PM
Do you mean Romney as an individual or as part of the government?

I meant it the same way as Republicans mean "Obama" when they talk about spending. Why does no one ever question them?

AUTaxMan
08-09-2012, 03:42 PM
The end result is less money in ths hands of peopel more in the hands of governmet. You can call it whatever you want to justify it it, but it's Romney saying he can spend that money better than the people. Like O said justify it howver you like to sleep at night. You know what it is.

It isn't less money in the hands of the people if in conjunction with getting rid of these types of wealth redistribution programs, they also cut the people's income taxes.

Wickabee
08-09-2012, 03:44 PM
It isn't less money in the hands of the people if in conjunction with getting rid of these types of wealth redistribution programs, they also cut the people's income taxes.

Not really.

http://www.heraldonline.com/2012/08/09/4177653/romneys-tax-plan-gets-a-failing.html

MadMan1978
08-09-2012, 04:00 PM
It isn't less money in the hands of the people if in conjunction with getting rid of these types of wealth redistribution programs, they also cut the people's income taxes.


Is point is old and now mute. this is the claim teapublicans have been pushing for 30 years...
You act as if someone went to your bank and took the money from your account and handed it to a homeless vet on the street.

Your Romney plan raises YOUR Taxes!

AUTaxMan
08-09-2012, 04:22 PM
Is point is old and now mute. this is the claim teapublicans have been pushing for 30 years...
You act as if someone went to your bank and took the money from your account and handed it to a homeless vet on the street.

Your Romney plan raises YOUR Taxes!

You must acknowledge that refundable tax credits are nothing more than free money from the government. It wasn't taken from me, though. It was either borrowed from China or printed.

How does it raise my taxes? What deductions so I take, and how are they going to be eliminated to such an extent that it will have a negative offset from the benefit I receive from having my individual rate reduced by 20%?

Wickabee
08-09-2012, 04:30 PM
Forgot it, madman, he's toeing the party line on this one. Anything to make Obama look worse.

MadMan1978
08-09-2012, 05:10 PM
Forgot it, madman, he's toeing the party line on this one. Anything to make Obama look worse.
I know I was bored and I had too!

Wickabee
08-09-2012, 05:14 PM
You must acknowledge that refundable tax credits are nothing more than free money from the government. It wasn't taken from me, though. It was either borrowed from China or printed.

How does it raise my taxes? What deductions so I take, and how are they going to be eliminated to such an extent that it will have a negative offset from the benefit I receive from having my individual rate reduced by 20%?

Link I posted, though I'm sure that's just a liberal rag...

AUTaxMan
08-09-2012, 05:16 PM
Link I posted, though I'm sure that's just a liberal rag...

Neither the link nor the study address my questions.

Wickabee
08-09-2012, 05:45 PM
AUT, when you say "raise taxes" what are you speaking of specifically? I fear you're splitting hairs to make it look like something it's not. Are you referring solely to income taxes? If you are, the we're having two different conversations. The fact of the matter is, under Romney, the rich will be richer through tax cuts while the middle class will have less money in their pockets. Call it whatever you want, but it's less for the middle class and more for the wealthy. Explain to me how giving the top 2% more by taking that money away from the middle class is supposed to help the economy.