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JustAlex
08-04-2012, 05:27 PM
So, I was HAMMERED by multiple members on this site (both conservative and liberal) for saying that the U.S military has been a failure.

I stand by my comments, and I want to make clear that I don't say it in a baseless manner, I want to discuss the following:


#1 The U.S Government entered TWO illegal Wars in which many American soldiers TORTURED POWs and violated other Rules of Engagement.....till this day NO ONE has been punished for doing this, there has been ZERO investigations and there is no justice for the reckless behavior the U.S has shown.

#2 For all the neverending discussion on the U.S budget and how much spending should be cut.....the answer is STARING the U.S in their faces but no one wants to admit it:

http://img.scoop.it/1L7VB30xvNY787uRW3bC_jl72eJkfbmt4t8yenImKBVaiQDB_R d1H6kmuBWtceBJ

^No one wants to face the HUGE elephant in the room.....it is utterly ridiculous!



#3 IRAQ!.......This will go down as this generation's "Vietnam".....except it's much worse!

Thousands died toppling a regime only to see a nation destroy itself in civil war, there were ZERO WMDs, and Iraq had absolutely NOTHING to do with 9/11.....Iraq will go down as one of the BIGGEST mistakes this country has ever committed.....and of course let's not forget the TENS OF THOUSANDS of innocent civilians that died as a result of this ILLEGAL war.



Thoughts and Opinions are much appreciated.

Wickabee
08-04-2012, 06:48 PM
I wouldn't say the military has been a complete failure.

The budget is far ans away bloated beyond belief and, at that price is a failure. But in and of itself, it's actually been pretty successful, just WAAAAAAAAY overfunded.

JustAlex
08-04-2012, 06:56 PM
Is 10 years in a WINLESS war a success?

I'm not debating the Power of the U.S military, I know they are the most powerful and strongest (well, I'm sure China won't like to hear that).....but I'm talking about success vs. Failure!

"Mission Accomplished"....never happened.

And the reality is very stark.....the U.S would not be in as big of a budget mess as it is today if they would have never entered Iraq.


What part has any of this been successful other than spending BILLIONS upon BILLIONS toppling down ONE organization, and waiting 10 years to kill ONE man?

Is that all we accomplished?

The Cost was too great....

Wickabee
08-04-2012, 07:06 PM
Well, I don't see winning every war in quick fashion as being the only "success". Holding the most powerful standing army on the planet is definite success. Having almost every country look to your...

JustAlex
08-04-2012, 07:09 PM
I'm only talking about the last Decade. <br />
<br />
I guess I should've mentioned that from the very beginning, but then again, I thought it was pretty obvious. <br />
<br />
I consider the U.S military pre-2001 to be...

Wickabee
08-04-2012, 07:33 PM
It's still tops in the world, but it's costing about twice as much as it should

ALADOG
08-04-2012, 07:40 PM
So, I was HAMMERED by multiple members on this site (both conservative and liberal) for saying that the U.S military has been a failure.

I stand by my comments, and I want to make clear that I don't say it in a baseless manner, I want to discuss the following:


#1 The U.S Government entered TWO illegal Wars in which many American soldiers TORTURED POWs and violated other Rules of Engagement.....till this day NO ONE has been punished for doing this, there has been ZERO investigations and there is no justice for the reckless behavior the U.S has shown.

#2 For all the neverending discussion on the U.S budget and how much spending should be cut.....the answer is STARING the U.S in their faces but no one wants to admit it:

http://img.scoop.it/1L7VB30xvNY787uRW3bC_jl72eJkfbmt4t8yenImKBVaiQDB_R d1H6kmuBWtceBJ

^No one wants to face the HUGE elephant in the room.....it is utterly ridiculous!



#3 IRAQ!.......This will go down as this generation's "Vietnam".....except it's much worse!

Thousands died toppling a regime only to see a nation destroy itself in civil war, there were ZERO WMDs, and Iraq had absolutely NOTHING to do with 9/11.....Iraq will go down as one of the BIGGEST mistakes this country has ever committed.....and of course let's not forget the TENS OF THOUSANDS of innocent civilians that died as a result of this ILLEGAL war.



Thoughts and Opinions are much appreciated.

If you repeat that the wars were illegal enough times, you might convince yourself. Oh Yeah, there is now intelligence that suggests the WMD are in Syria, moved prior to the war.

JustAlex
08-04-2012, 07:48 PM
If you repeat that the wars were illegal enough times, you might convince yourself. Oh Yeah, there is now intelligence that suggests the WMD are in Syria, moved prior to the war.
The only people who believe those wars were legal are the U.S and UK, the rest of the world isn't so dumb.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_the_Iraq_War


As for your second assertion.....please show a source.

Wickabee
08-04-2012, 10:11 PM
What's the difference between a legal and illegal war?

MadMan1978
08-04-2012, 10:51 PM
Good thing you werent alive During the Reagan years!

MadMan1978
08-04-2012, 10:51 PM
What's the difference between a legal and illegal war?

It is Declared war that makes it legal

mrveggieman
08-06-2012, 09:06 AM
There's not much for me to say here. Justalex hit it right on the head. I'm waiting to see what the conservatives who claim that the want to reduce gov't spending but have no problem spending freely on the military have to say.

angel0430
08-06-2012, 09:26 AM
If you want to call this a failure, then you are using the worng words. The military did not fail for going to war. The leaders did. President, Vice President and high ranking memebers of government were the ones who failed. They say what tehy want and the military leaders make their strategies. Theya re there to follow orders...we follow lawful orders.

shrewsbury
08-06-2012, 09:26 AM
I would say what are you exactly cutting? you must remember this is a full time job or many, where we these people work, where else we they receive training and education? How many more people do we...

tpeichel
08-06-2012, 01:09 PM
2011 Federal Receipts = $2.3 Trillion
2011 Federal Spending = $3.6 Trillion

Governments should only spend what they can collect from their citizens, otherwise you end in the situation that we are in. Unfortunately, we have to reduce our spending by over 35% to get back in line with revenues.

At almost 20% of the Federal budget, anyone who thinks we can maintain our current levels of military spending is naive. Our entitlement programs make up over 40% of our budget and it will be impossible to maintain those levels as well.

(And those that think Obama's tax the rich proposal is the solution, it is estimated to only generate between $70-100 billion in revenue every year over the next ten years, barely making a dent in our yearly trillion + deficit.)

Wickabee
08-06-2012, 01:30 PM
If you want to call this a failure, then you are using the worng words. The military did not fail for going to war. The leaders did. President, Vice President and high ranking memebers of government were the ones who failed. They say what tehy want and the military leaders make their strategies. Theya re there to follow orders...we follow lawful orders.

Bingo

theonedru
08-06-2012, 02:54 PM
I would not compare Iraq with Vietnam, the fact the US fought in Vietnam is an embarrassment that we should be ashamed of, mainly for reasons never taught in the schools. Iraq was just an ego push to fix an American mistake when they backed Saddam. I will agree military spending is ridiculous.

Wickabee
08-06-2012, 03:59 PM
I would not compare Iraq with Vietnam, the fact the US fought in Vietnam is an embarrassment that we should be ashamed of, mainly for reasons never taught in the schools. Iraq was just an ego push to fix an American mistake when they backed Saddam. I will agree military spending is ridiculous.

Replace the word "mistake" with another round of "embarrassment" and I'll agree completely.

The sad part is Iraq seems to have worked to cover up that embarrassment.

theonedru
08-06-2012, 09:18 PM
Replace the word "mistake" with another round of "embarrassment" and I'll agree completely.

The sad part is Iraq seems to have worked to cover up that embarrassment.

Nope the Vietnam war was a pure embarrassment and shame for America. The Vietnamese people were 2nd class citizens in their own country with no rights. They were fighting to rid the country of the French and actually become recognized humans again. And America stepped in and help try and prevent that. Ain't nothing to be proud of when your denying people the right to exist in their own country.

11chaos
08-07-2012, 01:50 AM
If you want to call this a failure, then you are using the worng words. The military did not fail for going to war. The leaders did. President, Vice President and high ranking memebers of government were the ones who failed. They say what tehy want and the military leaders make their strategies. Theya re there to follow orders...we follow lawful orders.

This is the best statement in here. Alex wants to blame the military and more than likely he wouldn't to their face, however like said above he should be blaming the politicians, lobbyist and other special interest groups.