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mikesilvia
08-11-2012, 11:23 AM
I'm sure non of the entrenched Democrats listed to Ryan's speech, or will do any real unbiased research, but here are some interesting facts about the man.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/elisabethmeinecke/2012/08/11/6_random_facts_about_paul_ryan

MadMan1978
08-11-2012, 01:03 PM
More real facts....

-Believes in the same top-down economic policies that crashed the economy

-He would endorse a tax hike on the Middle class to pay for tax cuts for the millionaires

-He would cut Pell Grants, clean energy and innovation funding even as he gives more tax breaks to the wealthy

-He would end Medicare as we know it

-He Cosponsored a bill that would BAN many forms of birth control


and I quote

"Our Rights come from nature and God, not Government"
Paul Ryan


Wow the article is the best then have? ouch! NONE of that would ever get me to vote for this joker...

mikesilvia
08-11-2012, 01:12 PM
Michael, once again, you just selectively snip clips.

Ryan was talking about the founding of this country when referring to "Our Rights come from nature and God, not Government"

It's a known fact that our Founding fathers were all very religious and used these principles to create America and the Bill of Rights.

Do you think our rights come from government? I know Obama does. And if you finished the quote you would have posted:

"But America is more than just a place...it's an idea. It's the only country founded on an idea. Our rights come from nature and God, not government. We promise equal opportunity, not equal outcomes."

But, selective quote grabbing is common place.

mikesilvia
08-11-2012, 01:14 PM
Wow the article is the best then have? ouch! NONE of that would ever get me to vote for this joker...

Michael, you didn't go into Paul Ryan's speech with an open mind. You already had a predetermined outcome, so would anything ever get you to vote for a non-democrat? I voted for my Mayor who was a Democrat just last year. Can you tell me the lat Republican you voted for?

MadMan1978
08-11-2012, 01:48 PM
I have voted for one Silvio O. Conte

and we are talking about Paul Ryan not anyone else...
I see no reason to vote for him...for the reason I listed.

AUTaxMan
08-11-2012, 03:17 PM
"Our Rights come from nature and God, not Government"
Paul Ryan

This is one of the founding principles of our country.

JustAlex
08-11-2012, 03:22 PM
More real facts....

-Believes in the same top-down economic policies that crashed the economy

-He would endorse a tax hike on the Middle class to pay for tax cuts for the millionaires

-He would cut Pell Grants, clean energy and innovation funding even as he gives more tax breaks to the wealthy

-He would end Medicare as we know it

-He Cosponsored a bill that would BAN many forms of birth control


and I quote

"Our Rights come from nature and God, not Government"
Paul Ryan


Wow the article is the best then have? ouch! NONE of that would ever get me to vote for this joker...

The GOP went from picking the STUPIDEST Woman in America to now choosing the 1% Dream Team!

I don't know what's scarier the fact they keep putting this country on the brink or that their delusional, sheepish supporters will continue to go along with them no matter what.

mikesilvia
08-11-2012, 03:28 PM
The GOP went from picking the STUPIDEST Woman in America to now choosing the 1% Dream Team!


Really? Stupidest women in America? I'm think Joe Biden is not the sharpest tool in the shed and he's actually in office.

Also, Obama and Biden are in the 1% and I can't recall a single President/VP that wasn't. Care to share a team that wasn't? For sure Kerry/Edwards were richer than Romney/Ryan. Did you have a problem with them? Or that JFK was worth $1 billion? Did you care that the Kennedy money came from illegal business and that Ted Kennedy never worked a day in his life? That Pelosi owns a horse farm and a winery?



I don't know what's scarier the fact they keep putting this country on the brink or that their delusional, sheepish supporters will continue to go along with them no matter what.


This is true on both sides. What is delusional is believing that only one party is in the 1% and only one party is leading sheep. :):

MadMan1978
08-12-2012, 11:00 AM
Really? Stupidest women in America? I'm think Joe Biden is not the sharpest tool in the shed and he's actually in office.

Also, Obama and Biden are in the 1% and I can't recall a single President/VP that wasn't. Care to share a team that wasn't? For sure Kerry/Edwards were richer than Romney/Ryan. Did you have a problem with them? Or that JFK was worth $1 billion? Did you care that the Kennedy money came from illegal business and that Ted Kennedy never worked a day in his life? That Pelosi owns a horse farm and a winery?


This is true on both sides. What is delusional is believing that only one party is in the 1% and only one party is leading sheep. :):

This went from 6 random facts to this?

and check your facts

-Romney is the richest man to run for the office...
-JFK a billionaire? -Joe Maybe but not JFK

Wickabee
08-12-2012, 11:11 AM
I'm sure non of the entrenched Democrats listed to Ryan's speech, or will do any real unbiased research, but here are some interesting facts about the man.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/elisabethmeinecke/2012/08/11/6_random_facts_about_paul_ryan

I'm sorry but if they won't proofread the first sentence this article has no credibility.

MadMan1978
08-12-2012, 11:24 AM
Mike what are you trying to sell here?

and why would we? the research w do show he is for the rich, big oil and removing the rights of woman... and that is the tip of the iceberg
What more do we need?

for every fact you like on this joker, we can find 3 against him...

MadMan1978
08-12-2012, 11:25 AM
Paul Ryan And His Family To Benefit From The $45 Billion In Subsidies For Big Oil In His Budget (http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2011/06/17/247570/paul-ryan-family-beneft-subsidies-for-big-oil-in-his-budget/)

MadMan1978
08-12-2012, 11:42 AM
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2012/08/11/677051/meet-paul-ryan-climate-denier-conspiracy-theorist-koch-acolyte/
12 Things You Should Know About Vice Presidential Candidate Paul Ryan (http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/08/11/677171/12-things-you-should-know-about-vice-presidential-candidate-paul-ryan/)

andrewhoya
08-12-2012, 12:28 PM
C'Mon Mike, if you want to post an article giving facts at least make sure the facts are actually decent facts, not facts saying he wrestles catfish.

Some facts that actually mean something-

1- voted FOR constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage
2- voted AGAINST hate crimes prevention act
3- supports banning same sex adoption in Washington DC

mikesilvia
08-12-2012, 12:31 PM
C'Mon Mike, if you want to post an article giving facts at least make sure the facts are actually decent facts, not facts saying he wrestles catfish.

Some facts that actually mean something-

1- voted FOR constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage
2- voted AGAINST hate crimes prevention act
3- supports banning same sex adoption in Washington DC

Are you telling me what I can and can't post?

Do you think it might be a good idea to actually know the person outside of politics? I do.

MadMan1978
08-12-2012, 12:33 PM
Michael, you didn't go into Paul Ryan's speech with an open mind. You already had a predetermined outcome, so would anything ever get you to vote for a non-democrat? I voted for my Mayor who was a Democrat just last year. Can you tell me the lat Republican you voted for?


Mike I could never listen to his closed minded speeches. I think I have red and seen all i need to know he isnt the person i would back.

mikesilvia
08-12-2012, 12:41 PM
Mike I could never listen to his closed minded speeches. I think I have red and seen all i need to know he isnt the person i would back.

So, it's ok to enjoy closed minded speeches from the left, but not the right. Got it.

The websites you post are 100% one-sided. They are as close minded as they come. So, before you slam Fox News as one sided, you may want to look over the websites you read daily because they are as close minded as they come.

andrewhoya
08-12-2012, 12:45 PM
Are you telling me what I can and can't post?

Do you think it might be a good idea to actually know the person outside of politics? I do.
Do you care that he wrestles catfish?

andrewhoya
08-12-2012, 12:47 PM
And for the record, I am not a democrat. I saw on another thread you basically assumed those who posted bad things about Ryan were democrats. I just think he is a total nutjob. Even worse than Obama, which I didnt think was possible.

mikesilvia
08-12-2012, 12:48 PM
Do you care that he wrestles catfish?

People that fish will. Also, people that enjoy the outdoors will relate.

andrewhoya
08-12-2012, 12:50 PM
People that fish will. Also, people that enjoy the outdoors will relate.
I love fishing and being outdoors (hiking, biking on trails, etc), but this is totally useless to me. I want to vote for who has the best political ideas, not how they spend their free time (UNLESS they spend that free time with other women while they are married <ahem Herman Cain>, etc)

mikesilvia
08-12-2012, 12:50 PM
And for the record, I am not a democrat. I saw on another thread you basically assumed those who posted bad things about Ryan were democrats. I just think he is a total nutjob. Even worse than Obama, which I didnt think was possible.

How so? I posted an article showing that Ryan wins 65% of the vote in a Democrat district. 1/5 of Obama supporters voted for him: http://www.sportscardforum.com/threads/1728404-Why-do-Democrats-Love-Ryan

If he's so extreme, why do so many Democrats vote for him? Something you should ask yourself and research. I'm still researching the man myself.

MadMan1978
08-12-2012, 12:51 PM
So, it's ok to enjoy closed minded speeches from the left, but not the right. Got it.

The websites you post are 100% one-sided. They are as close minded as they come. So, before you slam Fox News as one sided, you may want to look over the websites you read daily because they are as close minded as they come.

Mike is this what your going to respond with?

First i never mention Fox News. They are Conservative biased. Why would i even think of watch them?
and Town Hall isnt Conservative Biased? really? Mike?

I DO NOT CARE FOR THE GOP CONSERVATIVE BASE!

I really fail to see your point? and yes i will listen to the speeches from the Left...long before i Listen to the right wing speeches. I have No reason nor do I wish to listen to them. His record to me speaks volumes. I have provide more then one point of view from several sources. and then you call it all closed minded? so be it. Why would I NOT read sites and share that very info that counter attack the teapublican articles you post?

What are you selling Mike? Because I AM NOT BUYING!

By the way I always listen to the State of the Nation speech no matter who sits in the office.

andrewhoya
08-12-2012, 12:53 PM
How so? I posted an article showing that Ryan wins 65% of the vote in a Democrat district. 1/5 of Obama supporters voted for him: http://www.sportscardforum.com/threads/1728404-Why-do-Democrats-Love-Ryan

If he's so extreme, why do so many Democrats vote for him? Something you should ask yourself and research. I'm still researching the man myself.
But now you are assuming each of those 1/5 Obama supporters are Democrats. Many of those are likely Independents, and chose Ryan over the democrat choice.

mikesilvia
08-12-2012, 12:55 PM
I love fishing and being outdoors (hiking, biking on trails, etc), but this is totally useless to me. I want to vote for who has the best political ideas, not how they spend their free time (UNLESS they spend that free time with other women while they are married <ahem Herman Cain>, etc)

You can't always base your decision to vote for someone based on their political record. People vote for or against things based on other reasons. Our bills are so complex and people stuff things into to legislation that has nothing to do with the legislation. You could have a bill title "Funding for Starving Children" but in the bill there is funding for partial-birth abortion. Someone votes against it and his/her opponents say, "he's against feeding the children, look he voted against the Funding the Starving Children" bill.

Sometimes you have to vote for the person with the best convictions, work ethic, etc. You should judge people on their voting record, but it's not always cut and dry.

mikesilvia
08-12-2012, 12:57 PM
But now you are assuming each of those 1/5 Obama supporters are Democrats. Many of those are likely Independents, and chose Ryan over the democrat choice.

He wins in a Democrat district. They can't be all independents. Read through the article. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on it. Again, do your research. Both sides will throw at you what they want YOU to hear. Do your own honest research. Don't listen to Republican or Democrat partisans. They will tell you only to good or bad side of the person. Research each candidate with an open mind and ignore the obvious partisan articles.

mikesilvia
08-12-2012, 12:59 PM
And if you have time read some of the bills he voted again. See if their are things stuff in it. Read why he voted against it and if you still disagree you shouldn't vote for the man.

MadMan1978
08-12-2012, 01:03 PM
You can't always base your decision to vote for someone based on their political record. People vote for or against things based on other reasons. Our bills are so complex and people stuff things into to legislation that has nothing to do with the legislation. You could have a bill title "Funding for Starving Children" but in the bill there is funding for partial-birth abortion. Someone votes against it and his/her opponents say, "he's against feeding the children, look he voted against the Funding the Starving Children" bill.

Sometimes you have to vote for the person with the best convictions, work ethic, etc. You should judge people on their voting record, but it's not always cut and dry.

Thats is all you wish to do with their opponents! Really? His record shows who he is. NO Matter what side he/she is on!
wow some days Mike I just wonder about you

andrewhoya
08-12-2012, 01:04 PM
You can't always base your decision to vote for someone based on their political record. People vote for or against things based on other reasons. Our bills are so complex and people stuff things into to legislation that has nothing to do with the legislation.
Sometimes you have to vote for the person with the best convictions, work ethic, etc. You should judge people on their voting record, but it's not always cut and dry.
Those are all minor in my book. Most other people value work ethic, etc more, but I will base my vote (well, I cant vote this election but for future elections...) based on who will help get this country out of the dump.

He wins in a Democrat district. They can't be all independents. Read through the article. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on it. Again, do your research. Both sides will throw at you what they want YOU to hear. Do your own honest research. Don't listen to Republican or Democrat partisans. They will tell you only to good or bad side of the person. Research each candidate with an open mind and ignore the obvious partisan articles.
No, they are likely all NOT independents, but a decent sized chunk of them likely are.

I do do my research; I have spent countless hours researching the candidates, watching debates, etc. Most others my age do what you are basically saying I am doing and just going off of what they see on CNN or Huff Post. Im not like that, and I can prove it by supporting Ron Paul. Those who just go off of what they read on websites know next to nothing about him because he is covered up by the media and given next to no time in debates.

andrewhoya
08-12-2012, 01:05 PM
And if you have time read some of the bills he voted again. See if their are things stuff in it. Read why he voted against it and if you still disagree you shouldn't vote for the man.
If I had time to read word for word the bills, I would. But just like you, I am very busy. I do my best to research when I have time instead of basing my opinions based on what biased news articles want me to believe.

mikesilvia
08-12-2012, 01:22 PM
Mike is this what your going to respond with?

First i never mention Fox News. They are Conservative biased. Why would i even think of watch them?
and Town Hall isnt Conservative Biased? really? Mike?

I DO NOT CARE FOR THE GOP CONSERVATIVE BASE!

I really fail to see your point? and yes i will listen to the speeches from the Left...long before i Listen to the right wing speeches. I have No reason nor do I wish to listen to them. His record to me speaks volumes. I have provide more then one point of view from several sources. and then you call it all closed minded? so be it. Why would I NOT read sites and share that very info that counter attack the teapublican articles you post?

What are you selling Mike? Because I AM NOT BUYING!

By the way I always listen to the State of the Nation speech no matter who sits in the office.

Michael, why do you think it is a good thing to only read articles written by people that agree with you? What really is the point?

I visit the Huffington post daily and even try to read the Daily Kos when I get a chance. No side has a monopoly on smart or dumb people. If you live your life ignoring the other side, then you have become a complete partisan.

There is a reason why I'm fine with gay marriage, for legalizing pot and several other mostly Democrat ideas. I do try my best to research all points and not be a compete partisan.

I try to challenge my beliefs and paradigm daily. I'm not a soldier for the Republican party like you are a soldier for the Democrat party. I don't register as a Republican and actually voted for my Democrat Mayor over his Republican counter part just last year.

You have a strong believe that all Republican are idiots and oppress people and none of their writings are worthy of your time. I tend to agree with Republicans more on most issues, but don't think they are any smarter than Democrats. I'm a big fan of many Democrats in the congress and Senate. I'm not a fan of President Obama's policies, but wouldn't hesitate to take a bullet for him if someone tried to hurt him.

That's what I feel is the difference between you and I when it comes to politics. You guys slam me day in and day out when I disagree, but when I agree you guys never acknowledge it.

MadMan1978
08-12-2012, 02:24 PM
First, stoip trying to put words in my mouth and read my thoughts...you cant!



Michael, why do you think it is a good thing to only read articles written by people that agree with you? What really is the point?
You are attempting to twist this to a closed mind viewpoint. I read the first paragraph of most of your article you post. Depending on the site I might read more, however,you lean to the conservative sites rather then more medium sites. I read more then what you seem to be pushing here.

I visit the Huffington post daily and even try to read the Daily Kos when I get a chance. No side has a monopoly on smart or dumb people. If you live your life ignoring the other side, then you have become a complete partisan.

There is a reason why I'm fine with gay marriage, for legalizing pot and several other mostly Democrat ideas. I do try my best to research all points and not be a compete partisan.

I try to challenge my beliefs and paradigm daily. I'm not a soldier for the Republican party like you are a soldier for the Democrat party. I don't register as a Republican and actually voted for my Democrat Mayor over his Republican counter part just last year.
-If you need to challenge your beliefs and world viewpoints you seem to wondering int he middle and do not have a clear path.

You have a strong belief that all Republican are idiots and oppress people and none of their writings are worthy of your time. I tend to agree with Republicans more on most issues, but don't think they are any smarter than Democrats. I'm a big fan of many Democrats in the congress and Senate. I'm not a fan of President Obama's policies, but wouldn't hesitate to take a bullet for him if someone tried to hurt him.

I have never said anything to support that claim. again you are reading into this what you wish.
-I think that conservatives using a far outdated economic theory of supply side economics, written over 200 tears ago during a agriculture economy , just does not work in the world of today.

That's what I feel is the difference between you and I when it comes to politics. You guys slam me day in and day out when I disagree, but when I agree you guys never acknowledge it.
-YOu have agreed with me I think 4 times when it comes to politics. In the 4 years i have been here.




The gay marriage and pot issues are not what are really shaping this election Mike Happy you took a stance. Ryan and Romney for that matter, are 100% opposite on the spectrum of my Politics. I feel that is only responsible act to disagree and post Pro Liberal base sites to counter attack you posts. I find it very fair and levels things out. I have not seen you ONCE say any respectfully or agreeing with any act of Pres Obama.

I like the fact you support these men. I, on the other hand, cannot support them. Their core values do not agree with mine, as well their politics.

So stop trying to twist statements and make things appear to be all one sided.

pr0phet
08-12-2012, 11:58 PM
Hmm, this could be the first and only time this happens. Id like to defend your current position Mike. Let me ask, does your RSS feed automatically post? Im not terribly familiar with RSS feeds, but you seem to have a fair amount of posts here which leads me to ask about them. If this is the case, has anybody submitted their own RSS "democratic" feed. I know you made a post about this in the past. It seems there are a lot of upset people thinking you took the time to post this. I'm really wondering if this was just an automatic post.

For the actual discussion, I refuse to comment on these political views for two reasons.
#1)I am not educated enough to speak on them.
#2)What Ryan stands for only affects me in one area(Reduce the highest tax rate from 35% to 25% to support the wealthiest individuals/corporations). I know that he wants to make cuts to education which would also hurt me greatly. At this time I don't know enough to say much more though.

What I can add is that Ryan may have certainly gained from corporate oil funds. In Wisconsin though, his play in oil does not have a serious impact on the state. If he profited substantially from dairy, that would be a whole new story. In a world where EVERYBODY worries about themselves first, his interest did not get to voters because there is very little oil work done in this state(when compared to others).... Facts are facts though. This state has been primarily democratic as a whole. How things have been per region, I don't know. But political elections have brought forth many democratic governors and blue markers during the presidential elections. In the last few years, that trend has changed.

Wickabee
08-13-2012, 12:11 AM
Are you telling me what I can and can't post?

Do you think it might be a good idea to actually know the person outside of politics? I do.

Do you care to know your mechanic outside of his job?