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jessejordan419
08-13-2012, 12:50 PM
I write this because many people say that Jesus did not speak against homosexuality, and therefore, He was not against it. I write this to show evidence to the contrary.

Matthew 19:4-6

4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.


Luke 17:28-30

28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

and Jesus' Word on the Old Testament

John 5:46-47

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

This shows that Jesus does not condemn the Law of Moses, or replace it; but Fulfills it. Yes, He gave us greater commandments: To love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind; and to love your neighbor as yourself. But this does not diminish the consequences for behavior that God called, "an abomination". And this includes cross-dressing, incest, and bestiality.

You can say you don't believe that God is this or that, but you cannot change what His Word says. You are inventing your own interpretation of what God is, and by doing this, you are creating your own god. The First Commandment is: I AM the Lord thy God, thou shalt have no other gods before Me.

Homosexuality in the rest of the New Testament:

Jude 6-8

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. 8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind(homosexuals), 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Star_Cards
08-13-2012, 12:57 PM
how exactly does "abusers of themselves with mankind" translate into homosexuals. From my understanding mankind also includes women. Although I'm not really sure what abusers of themselves means.

By the way, I'm of the opinion that no matter what the bible or any other religious text says has zero bearing in the legislation of same sex marriage being legal. Religious text has no place in the discussion of same sex marriage being recognized legally.

habsheaven
08-13-2012, 01:07 PM
I didn't see anything referring to homosexuals in any of those passages.

mrveggieman
08-13-2012, 01:50 PM
I didn't see anything either unless you want to referencing this:

John 5:46-47

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

However if you go by that that opens up another can of worms. There are plenty of things in the OT that don't have anything to do with homosexuality that christians ignore. How can you pick an chose to enforce the OT ban on homosexuality because it is convenient but ignore the other OT laws that are not convenient?

Wickabee
08-13-2012, 01:53 PM
I write this because many people say that Jesus did not speak against homosexuality, and therefore, He was not against it. I write this to show evidence to the contrary.


Matthew 19:4-6

4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
If this says homosexuality is wrong, then it's also saying that not marrying at all is wrong. If that is what you think this says then all bachelors are also sinning by not following this passage.
Or it says nothing of homosexuality whatsoever.



Luke 17:28-30

28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
Lot drunkenly impregnated his daughters and was still considered "righteous". The fact Sodom was destroyed says nothing of homosexuals. Don't forget Gomorrah was destroyed too.


and Jesus' Word on the Old Testament

John 5:46-47

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

This shows that Jesus does not condemn the Law of Moses, or replace it; but Fulfills it. Yes, He gave us greater commandments: To love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind; and to love your neighbor as yourself. But this does not diminish the consequences for behavior that God called, "an abomination". And this includes cross-dressing, incest, and bestiality.
Eating shellfish was a terrible thing to do before Jesus. Things change over time, the Bible proves it. I also don't see how the cut of cloth you're wearing has anything to do with anything. If I dressed as Jesus did today, people would call me a cross-dresser for wearing a dress.


You can say you don't believe that God is this or that, but you cannot change what His Word says. You are inventing your own interpretation of what God is, and by doing this, you are creating your own god. The First Commandment is: I AM the Lord thy God, thou shalt have no other gods before Me.
The only two commandments one need follow were set forth by Jesus.
Love the one true God above all else
Love your neighbour as yourself



Homosexuality in the rest of the New Testament:

Jude 6-8

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. 8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
I'm going to assume your point lies in "going after strange flesh". That could easily mean being promiscuous or a host of other things. It could be argued that it means homosexuality but with as much as the Bible speaks of promiscuity and doesn't really speak nearly as much of homosexuality...


1 Corinthians 6:9-11

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind(homosexuals), 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Abusers of themselves with mankind doesn't refer to homosexuals. It refers to the fact that you life and body are your gift from God and because of that you don't have right to destroy it through drunkenness, gluttony, drug abuse, etc, etc.


So as you can see, you really didn't say anything about homosexuality by quoting those passages.

duwal
08-13-2012, 03:13 PM
yeah this member just keeps posting ramblings with nothing really showing what he is trying to prove

jessejordan419
08-13-2012, 03:27 PM
Leg. 18:20 Moreover thou shalt not lie carnally with thy neighbour's wife, to defile thyself with her. 21 And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD. 22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination. 23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.

No abortion, adultery, fornication, beastiality, homosexualism, incest, effiminism, etc. Read the Word for yourself to find out what is forbidden.

As for shelfish, pork, and unclean meats in the OT, Col. 2:16 says, Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

This is because the Law of Moses was to separate the Jews from the Gentiles. Jesus came for both Jew and Gentile. The Holy Spirit did not condone adultery, fornication, abortion, homosexuality, or any other sin given in the Law of Moses. This is not a contradiction, this is an opening of the Gospel to the Gentile. Israel was suppossed to be the beacon of light and lead the Gentile nations to God, but they rejected God when He came in the flesh as Messiah. Therefore, Jesus was that form to lead all nations to God, not Israel.

shrewsbury
08-13-2012, 05:22 PM
what was written by Moses? I believe just the laws of the jews, nothing else. even Jesus does not say Moses wrote what most claim and nearly all of Jesus' mentioning of Moses was the laws.

JustAlex
08-13-2012, 05:35 PM
By the way, I'm of the opinion that no matter what the bible or any other religious text says has zero bearing in the legislation of same sex marriage being legal. Religious text has no place in the discussion of same sex marriage being recognized legally.
http://www.picgifs.com/graphics/b/bingo/graphics-bingo-624050.gif

jessejordan419
08-13-2012, 08:01 PM
what was written by Moses? I believe just the laws of the jews, nothing else. even Jesus does not say Moses wrote what most claim and nearly all of Jesus' mentioning of Moses was the laws.

Moses is given credit for the Torah, or the first Five books of the Old Testament: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronamy. The 10 Commandments were given in Exodus, but Leviticus is the vast set of daily laws on how to separate Israel from the Gentiles. Everything from how to build the Tabernacle, how to appoint Levite Preists, and how to administer the sacrifices, to how to govern day to day affairs with government, are given in Leviticus.

Now, the Tabernacle was not needed after Solomon built the First Temple, and the Temple and sacrifices are not needed because Jesus was the Lamb of God, but nearly every Chapter in the Torah was a prophesy for Jesus, even the Jewish wedding ceremonies, the artifacts in the Tabernacle, and the many stories in Genesis were foretelling something about Jesus.

Some of these Levitical laws were simply not needed after the Ascension of Jesus, such as the sacrifices, and therefore we do not need to follow them. However, Levitical laws such as man lying with man as man lies with women, are still relevant. God called them an abomination. If homosexualism, incest, beastiality, etc. was deemed by God to be o.k. behavior, Jesus would've said so. The fact the Jesus says marriage is when a man leaves his family and is joined to his wife should be evidence enough that He did not allow for these types of sexual behavior.

Now, because the Gospel was to be proclaimed to the Gentiles in Acts, the food that God forbid the Jews to eat, was/is eaten by Gentiles, and the New Testament says let no man judge you for your meat. This means it is o.k. to eat pork and shellfish, but there's still wisdom in Levitical law. Once I purge my body of parasites and undigested meat, I will not go back to eating pork if I can help it. Not because God forbids it, but because more parasites are prevelant in pork than in any other meat. And since pork is now nearly as expensive as beef, why bother. But this is personal, not because I think its sin.

jessejordan419
08-13-2012, 08:06 PM
I didn't see anything either unless you want to referencing this:

John 5:46-47

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

However if you go by that that opens up another can of worms. There are plenty of things in the OT that don't have anything to do with homosexuality that christians ignore. How can you pick an chose to enforce the OT ban on homosexuality because it is convenient but ignore the other OT laws that are not convenient?

Which OT laws do you speak of? It's not picking and choosing when the NT spells out what marriage is. The evidence I give for God still being against sexual sins is from the NT, not me picking and choosing.

jessejordan419
08-13-2012, 08:14 PM
By the way, I'm of the opinion that no matter what the bible or any other religious text says has zero bearing in the legislation of same sex marriage being legal. Religious text has no place in the discussion of same sex marriage being recognized legally.



That may be your opinion, but the verse above clearly states that Sodom and Gomorrah were examples of God's judgement on civilizations that practice sexual immorality.

America gave homosexuals the opportunity to reap the same benefits as marriage, just without the title marriage. However, homosexuals were not content with respecting religious beliefs, they were interested in perverting what God says is marriage.

Satan cannot create, he can only pervert or twist what God has created. He twisted man by getting him to sin, he doesn't create a homosexual Boy Scouts, he wants to twist or pervert a Christian based organization by forcing them to allow homosexuals. He can't create a homosexual Chick-fil-a, he can only twist or pervert a Christian corporation, and he cannot create a homosexual civil union, he can only twist or pervert the Judeo-Christian marriage.

habsheaven
08-13-2012, 08:18 PM
That may be your opinion, but the verse above clearly states that Sodom and Gomorrah were examples of God's judgement on civilizations that practice sexual immorality.

America gave homosexuals the opportunity to reap the same benefits as marriage, just without the title marriage. However, homosexuals were not content with respecting religious beliefs, they were interested in perverting what God says is marriage.

Satan cannot create, he can only pervert or twist what God has created. He twisted man by getting him to sin, he doesn't create a homosexual Boy Scouts, he wants to twist or pervert a Christian based organization by forcing them to allow homosexuals. He can't create a homosexual Chick-fil-a, he can only twist or pervert a Christian corporation, and he cannot create a homosexual civil union, he can only twist or pervert the Judeo-Christian marriage.

The only one twisting and perverting things is you.

theonedru
08-13-2012, 08:40 PM
That may be your opinion, but the verse above clearly states that Sodom and Gomorrah were examples of God's judgement on civilizations that practice sexual immorality.

America gave homosexuals the opportunity to reap the same benefits as marriage, just without the title marriage. However, homosexuals were not content with respecting religious beliefs, they were interested in perverting what God says is marriage.

Satan cannot create, he can only pervert or twist what God has created. He twisted man by getting him to sin, he doesn't create a homosexual Boy Scouts, he wants to twist or pervert a Christian based organization by forcing them to allow homosexuals. He can't create a homosexual Chick-fil-a, he can only twist or pervert a Christian corporation, and he cannot create a homosexual civil union, he can only twist or pervert the Judeo-Christian marriage.

Thank God your a minority when it comes to twisted thoughts like this, you are so not what Jesus envisioned as to what a Christian should be that it could be argued you yourself are an abomination of your own faith.

shrewsbury
08-13-2012, 11:51 PM
Jesse, I know Moses is given credit, but not anywhere in the old or new testament does it say this. all references to moses writing anything was the laws of the chosen people. when Jesus spoke of Moses he was talking about believing in him not following his laws.

And when it comes to diet, I believe Mathew 15:11 says it all.

Now for homosexuality in the bible, (if we choose to go this route)

Leviticus 18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

and then skip to good old Leviticus 20, and we see them killing homosexual men and just about everything else.

but these are the laws of the jews, the chosen people, not Christians. if we are to choose what to keep and what to throw out, wh tells us this? the only authority to do so is Jesus.

so as a Christian, one should follow the teachings of Jesus and not mans interpretation of them. Though it is great to know many sides, and it is wonderful to learn from others, it is still all up to you and only you.

So what does Jesus teach us about homosexuals?

I have yet to find any reference to Jesus talking about homosexuals.

JustAlex
08-14-2012, 12:15 AM
A very important question to christians:

Why should the U.S government impose your beliefs to 100% of it's citizens?

We built a country that is FREE from religion at the government level, this was done in order to protect the rights of EVERYONE, not just christians, but muslims, jews, atheists, etc.


This is why I speak so hard on you guys, because when you say that you don't want gays to be married, you are imposing YOUR Beliefs on everyone else!

You don't get to dictate what others want to do!


Every day that gays don't have the right to be married it is because the majority of people against it are indeed religious and they are imposing their beliefs on the rest of this country......and just like the thread I made.....there are ZERO good reasons why gays should not marry in a secular society like ours.

shrewsbury
08-14-2012, 12:25 AM
alex, there is only one person in this thread who is against homosexual marriage do to religious beliefs.

I can't answer for other Christians, but I will say if the only reason a man cannot marry a man or a woman cannot marry a woman is someones else's religion, then something is not right.

I have already made my argument in the other thread you started, no need to repeat it.

JustAlex
08-14-2012, 12:41 AM
alex, there is only one person in this thread who is against homosexual marriage do to religious beliefs.

I can't answer for other Christians, but I will say if the only reason a man cannot marry a man or a woman cannot marry a woman is someones else's religion, then something is not right.

I have already made my argument in the other thread you started, no need to repeat it.
Yes I know, I remember, my comment was indeed toward Jesse and anyone else that thinks in that manner.

What he believes is fine, but the U.S government should not impose his or anyone else's religious beliefs on anyone else.

mrveggieman
08-14-2012, 07:49 AM
That may be your opinion, but the verse above clearly states that Sodom and Gomorrah were examples of God's judgement on civilizations that practice sexual immorality.

America gave homosexuals the opportunity to reap the same benefits as marriage, just without the title marriage. However, homosexuals were not content with respecting religious beliefs, they were interested in perverting what God says is marriage.

Satan cannot create, he can only pervert or twist what God has created. He twisted man by getting him to sin, he doesn't create a homosexual Boy Scouts, he wants to twist or pervert a Christian based organization by forcing them to allow homosexuals. He can't create a homosexual Chick-fil-a, he can only twist or pervert a Christian corporation, and he cannot create a homosexual civil union, he can only twist or pervert the Judeo-Christian marriage.


Yes both the OT and NT new speak of sexual immorality and I have no problem with that. What I have a problem with is christians throwing out parts of the bible that do not fit their needs. In the NT Jesus clearly states who can you follow him if you don't follow Moses? Moses followed certian dietary restrictions. However those dietary restrictions do not fit with what most christians like to do so they throw them out because they are in the OT. So if you are against homosexuality because the bible says so you should also follow God's dietary plan as perscribed in Genesis 1:29-30 which we all know none of the christians on P&R do.

shrewsbury
08-14-2012, 08:29 AM
veggie, does Jesus not say believe, not follow?

also I had freshly made (in our juicer) beet, cucumber, carrot, orange juice for dinner (thought you would like that)

mrveggieman
08-14-2012, 08:34 AM
veggie, does Jesus not say believe, not follow?

also I had freshly made (in our juicer) beet, cucumber, carrot, orange juice for dinner (thought you would like that)


So what's the difference between believing in and following? Also I'm feeling what you had for dinner last night. :):

Star_Cards
08-14-2012, 08:40 AM
That may be your opinion, but the verse above clearly states that Sodom and Gomorrah were examples of God's judgement on civilizations that practice sexual immorality.

America gave homosexuals the opportunity to reap the same benefits as marriage, just without the title marriage. However, homosexuals were not content with respecting religious beliefs, they were interested in perverting what God says is marriage.

Satan cannot create, he can only pervert or twist what God has created. He twisted man by getting him to sin, he doesn't create a homosexual Boy Scouts, he wants to twist or pervert a Christian based organization by forcing them to allow homosexuals. He can't create a homosexual Chick-fil-a, he can only twist or pervert a Christian corporation, and he cannot create a homosexual civil union, he can only twist or pervert the Judeo-Christian marriage.

I feel that it is well more than just my opinion. We live in a society where we are free to believe whatever we want religiously. Knowing this fact, please answer why any rational person would still think that one religious belief should stand over all of the others, including non-belief, when speaking about legal matters? It simply makes no sense and is completely selfish and arrogant that people think their religion should take precedence over all others.

Star_Cards
08-14-2012, 08:47 AM
That may be your opinion, but the verse above clearly states that Sodom and Gomorrah were examples of God's judgement on civilizations that practice sexual immorality.

America gave homosexuals the opportunity to reap the same benefits as marriage, just without the title marriage. However, homosexuals were not content with respecting religious beliefs, they were interested in perverting what God says is marriage.

Satan cannot create, he can only pervert or twist what God has created. He twisted man by getting him to sin, he doesn't create a homosexual Boy Scouts, he wants to twist or pervert a Christian based organization by forcing them to allow homosexuals. He can't create a homosexual Chick-fil-a, he can only twist or pervert a Christian corporation, and he cannot create a homosexual civil union, he can only twist or pervert the Judeo-Christian marriage.

The legality and benefits of marriage under a state in the U.S. has zero to do with any religion.

If people want to force homosexuals not to marry because they do not believe it's right then why not try to ban atheists from marrying as well?

again being legally married has nothing at all to do with religion. As a heterosexual atheist I can marry without any sort of religious connection and if I ever marry that will be the way it will happen for me. Completely void of any god or religious belief. How is this any different than a homosexual couple?

shrewsbury
08-14-2012, 08:48 AM
believing would be acknowledging he did in fact exist and did write the laws for the jews, following him would mean you are jewish.

mrveggieman
08-14-2012, 08:51 AM
believing would be acknowledging he did in fact exist and did write the laws for the jews, following him would mean you are jewish.


How could one be jewish if they confessed to be christian and professed that jesus christ is their lord and savior?

mrveggieman
08-14-2012, 08:52 AM
I feel that it is well more than just my opinion. We live in a society where we are free to believe whatever we want religiously. Knowing this fact, please answer why any rational person would still think that one religious belief should stand over all of the others, including non-belief, when speaking about legal matters? It simply makes no sense and is completely selfish and arrogant that people think their religion should take precedence over all others.

CHURCH!! :love0030::love0030::love0030:

shrewsbury
08-14-2012, 10:09 AM
well if you did not believe your religion to e the true religion, why would you believe? is confidence and faith arrogant and selfish? would you not try to help others who are making a wrong decision? why wouldn't someone's religion take precedence?

so it is ok for someone to put their beliefs on someone as long as they are not religious? that sounds arrogant to me.

mrveggieman
08-14-2012, 10:16 AM
well if you did not believe your religion to e the true religion, why would you believe? is confidence and faith arrogant and selfish? would you not try to help others who are making a wrong decision? why wouldn't someone's religion take precedence?

so it is ok for someone to put their beliefs on someone as long as they are not religious? that sounds arrogant to me.


If christians or anyone else want to put their religious beliefs over the rule of law why not just scrap the constitution and all of our bill of rights and go to a religious dictatorship just like the middle eastern countries that america is so quick to overthrough and install "freedom" to.

shrewsbury
08-14-2012, 10:53 AM
it's not about putting my beliefs over anyone else's but it is about me having the freedom to have my own beliefs.

mrveggieman
08-14-2012, 11:03 AM
it's not about putting my beliefs over anyone else's but it is about me having the freedom to have my own beliefs.

If one wants to believe that the earth is flat that is their business and I support and defend their right to do so. However when you want to make life difficult for others because of your beliefs then that is where I have a problem with them.

jessejordan419
08-14-2012, 12:41 PM
Jesse, I know Moses is given credit, but not anywhere in the old or new testament does it say this. all references to moses writing anything was the laws of the chosen people. when Jesus spoke of Moses he was talking about believing in him not following his laws.

And when it comes to diet, I believe Mathew 15:11 says it all.

Now for homosexuality in the bible, (if we choose to go this route)

Leviticus 18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

and then skip to good old Leviticus 20, and we see them killing homosexual men and just about everything else.

but these are the laws of the jews, the chosen people, not Christians. if we are to choose what to keep and what to throw out, wh tells us this? the only authority to do so is Jesus.

so as a Christian, one should follow the teachings of Jesus and not mans interpretation of them. Though it is great to know many sides, and it is wonderful to learn from others, it is still all up to you and only you.

So what does Jesus teach us about homosexuals?

I have yet to find any reference to Jesus talking about homosexuals.

The Jews had the prophets to give them direct instructions from God. The high priest also recieved direction instructions from God in the presence of God's Shickinea(spelling) Glory, through the manorah, and through the 12 stone tablet that hung on the high priests chest. God gave specific instructions on which tribe or tribes that were to be eliminated, and for His specific purpose. It is not the Christian'w purpose to eliminate anyone, it is the Christian's purpose to share Christ with the world. It is not the Christian's intent to eliminate the.homosexual, but to eliminate the sin of homosexuality. Same with any other sexual sin.

The passages I gave that Jesus spoke, show that He specified marriage is between a man and a woman. He didn't have to specifically call out homosexuality, because logic is clear when marriage is between a man and woman.

The Holy Spirit, through Paul, specifically called out the consequences of nations that allow the rampant sexual sins, and though sodomy is taken from the behavior or the Sodomites, it says that Gomorrah and the other cities in the area were guilty of the same sexual sins. This included rape and fornication. The people of Sodom wanted Lot to send out the 2 visitors so that they could gang rape them in the street. Lot offered his daughters instead, but the crowd of men would not have them.


This is all New Testament evidence that Jesus is against homosexuality. Ignore at your peril, and the peril of our country.



When Jesus spoke of Moses in the passage, he does say that Moses wrote of him. Nearly every chapter in the Torah is a reference of prophesy of Jesus, even throughout Leviticus. Moses wrote of Jesus. Jesus is the Word. The.Word was with God in the beginning, and the Word was God.



2 Timothy 3:16-17 King James Version (KJV)
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

jessejordan419
08-14-2012, 12:52 PM
A very important question to christians:

Why should the U.S government impose your beliefs to 100% of it's citizens?

We built a country that is FREE from religion at the government level, this was done in order to protect the rights of EVERYONE, not just christians, but muslims, jews, atheists, etc.


This is why I speak so hard on you guys, because when you say that you don't want gays to be married, you are imposing YOUR Beliefs on everyone else!

You don't get to dictate what others want to do!


Every day that gays don't have the right to be married it is because the majority of people against it are indeed religious and they are imposing their beliefs on the rest of this country......and just like the thread I made.....there are ZERO good reasons why gays should not marry in a secular society like ours.


This is misinterpretation of the Constitution. Is says Congress shall pass no law concerning the establishment of religion, or the free exercise therof. Marriage is between a man and a woman, and America gave gays the.oppurtunity to have the full rights of marriage in a civil union. That is equality. However, gays rejected equality, and instead want to impose their definition of marriage upon religious people.


As much as you want to believe, this is not a secular country. This is a Christian nation founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs, and the federal government is ONLY prohibited from establishing a nation religion, that is all. Any attempt to twist this is fallacy, and the only evidence you have against it is a treaty by the hapless president John Adams, and it is NOT a founding document.

mrveggieman
08-14-2012, 12:56 PM
We pretty much have a defacto national religion.

Wickabee
08-14-2012, 01:00 PM
This is misinterpretation of the Constitution. Is says Congress shall pass no law concerning the establishment of religion, or the free exercise therof. Marriage is between a man and a woman, and America gave gays the.oppurtunity to have the full rights of marriage in a civil union. That is equality. However, gays rejected equality, and instead want to impose their definition of marriage upon religious people.


As much as you want to believe, this is not a secular country. This is a Christian nation founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs, and the federal government is ONLY prohibited from establishing a nation religion, that is all. Any attempt to twist this is fallacy, and the only evidence you have against it is a treaty by the hapless president John Adams, and it is NOT a founding document.
Serious questio here. Is it right to impose religious beliefs as law when no national religion can be established? Or does it make more sense to just follow God's law yourself, regardless of secular law?

Rockman
08-14-2012, 01:26 PM
This is misinterpretation of the Constitution. Is says Congress shall pass no law concerning the establishment of religion, or the free exercise therof. Marriage is between a man and a woman, and America gave gays the.oppurtunity to have the full rights of marriage in a civil union. That is equality. However, gays rejected equality, and instead want to impose their definition of marriage upon religious people.


Nope....America hasn't. So no, there isn't equality by any definition.

Star_Cards
08-14-2012, 02:19 PM
well if you did not believe your religion to e the true religion, why would you believe? is confidence and faith arrogant and selfish? would you not try to help others who are making a wrong decision? why wouldn't someone's religion take precedence?

so it is ok for someone to put their beliefs on someone as long as they are not religious? that sounds arrogant to me.

I feel that a person can believe and be faithful in their religion and still be aware that there are other beliefs out there and be respectful of that. Recognizing that there are other religions and other forms of beliefs and that we shouldn't make laws based on one single way doesn't mean that you compromise your specific belief.

I'm not sure why you say that not having any one single religion form our countries laws is putting a belief over another. I also believe that people void of religion shouldn't make laws that would hinder a specific religious belief.

To me I think this is one of the major hurdles that christians have issue with. They feel that if the laws aren't governed by their religion then they are being forced to live by a different set of religious beliefs. That simply isn't true. Allowing gays to marry will have zero bearing on their lives or their religious beliefs. They will go on the same way as they always have. There are plenty of legal things that different religions have problems with from alcohol, birth control, pork, non kosher food, and so on, but we don't outlaw it because a religion has an issue with it. They just don't take part. If a church doesn't want to marry two men or two women, then they can choose not to. No law recognizing same sex marriage would ever force a specific church to perform wedding services.

Wickabee
08-14-2012, 02:56 PM
i feel that a person can believe and be faithful in their religion and still be aware that there are other beliefs out there and be respectful of that. Recognizing that there are other religions and other forms of beliefs and that we shouldn't make laws based on one single way doesn't mean that you compromise your specific belief.

I'm not sure why you say that not having any one single religion form our countries laws is putting a belief over another. I also believe that people void of religion shouldn't make laws that would hinder a specific religious belief.

To me i think this is one of the major hurdles that christians have issue with. They feel that if the laws aren't governed by their religion then they are being forced to live by a different set of religious beliefs. That simply isn't true. Allowing gays to marry will have zero bearing on their lives or their religious beliefs. They will go on the same way as they always have. There are plenty of legal things that different religions have problems with from alcohol, birth control, pork, non kosher food, and so on, but we don't outlaw it because a religion has an issue with it. They just don't take part. If a church doesn't want to marry two men or two women, then they can choose not to. No law recognizing same sex marriage would ever force a specific church to perform wedding services.

church!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

duwal
08-14-2012, 03:59 PM
Marriage is between a man and a woman, and America gave gays the.oppurtunity to have the full rights of marriage in a civil union. That is equality. However, gays rejected equality, and instead want to impose their definition of marriage upon religious people.


Homosexuals have never been given the full rights and benefits of marriage in a civil union. It is far from it.

And your marriage is between a man and a woman is your opinion (as well as the majority of course), while other have the opinion that marriage is a link for two people in love to agree to spend their lifetime with one another

JustAlex
08-14-2012, 04:13 PM
Marriage is between a man and a woman, and America gave gays the.oppurtunity to have the full rights of marriage in a civil union. That is equality. However, gays rejected equality, and instead want to impose their definition of marriage upon religious people.
THAT IS RIDICULOUS!

BTW, did you know that before 1967....it was ILLEGAL to have interracial marriages in many U.S states???

I guess Interracial couples were also "rejecting equality" and wanted to "impose their definition of marriage"?

*censored*
08-14-2012, 04:14 PM
Legally recognized same-sex unions (whether marriage, civil unions, domestic partnerships, or reciprocal beneficiary relationships) can be formed in only eighteen states, but none of them are recognized under federal law. Therefore the comment of "America gave gays the.oppurtunity to have the full rights of marriage in a civil union" is incorrect.

Furthermore, 29 states have an outright ban on it via their constitution or a state statute.

jessejordan419
08-14-2012, 09:34 PM
Serious questio here. Is it right to impose religious beliefs as law when no national religion can be established? Or does it make more sense to just follow God's law yourself, regardless of secular law?

It is not imposing religious beliefs, it has been custom for thousands of years, and gay marriage is unnatural to say the least. It is gays imposing their belief onto everyone else by not accepting civil unions.

Like it or not, the Bible clearly says what happens to the nations that allow this type of behavior. The westboro baptist nuts are picketing the totally wrong places, as they should be picketing gay establishments, not honorable straight soldiers' funerals. It makes no since.

On top of that, they protest in hatred, instead of showing Christ's love for sinners and showing His call for repentance in a tasteful way.

But I digress....


Atheists imposed their religious beliefs on everyone else by having prayer removed from school, the 10 Commandments removed from courthouses, and Crosses removed.from public lands.

jessejordan419
08-14-2012, 09:36 PM
Nope....America hasn't. So no, there isn't equality by any definition.

Ummmm.....yes they did. gays have rejected civil unions, and only want to impose their definition of marriage on the rest of the country. 6% of the population dictating to the 94% because they are loud and make a scene, and the media and sewer pipe t.v. glamorize it.

jessejordan419
08-14-2012, 09:43 PM
I feel that a person can believe and be faithful in their religion and still be aware that there are other beliefs out there and be respectful of that. Recognizing that there are other religions and other forms of beliefs and that we shouldn't make laws based on one single way doesn't mean that you compromise your specific belief.

I'm not sure why you say that not having any one single religion form our countries laws is putting a belief over another. I also believe that people void of religion shouldn't make laws that would hinder a specific religious belief.

To me I think this is one of the major hurdles that christians have issue with. They feel that if the laws aren't governed by their religion then they are being forced to live by a different set of religious beliefs. That simply isn't true. Allowing gays to marry will have zero bearing on their lives or their religious beliefs. They will go on the same way as they always have. There are plenty of legal things that different religions have problems with from alcohol, birth control, pork, non kosher food, and so on, but we don't outlaw it because a religion has an issue with it. They just don't take part. If a church doesn't want to marry two men or two women, then they can choose not to. No law recognizing same sex marriage would ever force a specific church to perform wedding services.

your way off base. Jews aren't outlawing pork, Christians aren't outlawing gay marriage, they gave them civil unions, but gays reject that.

Prayer in schools did not force all kids to pray, in fact, atheists have gone as far as to ban prayer at the flagpole before class. Now is that letting a religion have their prayer?

It harmed the atheist nothing to put headphones on during prayer, and it harms atheists nothing to display the 10 Commandments from courthouses. They are unlawfully banning Christians from their free exercise of Religion.

But you don't see atheists filing lawsuits through the aclu against the 30-50 court cases where shariah law was cited as the reason for ruling now do you. Would atheists file suits if schools started using halal meat in schools?

jessejordan419
08-14-2012, 09:45 PM
THAT IS RIDICULOUS!

BTW, did you know that before 1967....it was ILLEGAL to have interracial marriages in many U.S states???

I guess Interracial couples were also "rejecting equality" and wanted to "impose their definition of marriage"?

Red herring. Stay on topic please, nobody brought race into this because this has absolutely nothing to do with race, racism, or the like.

jessejordan419
08-14-2012, 09:52 PM
Legally recognized same-sex unions (whether marriage, civil unions, domestic partnerships, or reciprocal beneficiary relationships) can be formed in only eighteen states, but none of them are recognized under federal law. Therefore the comment of "America gave gays the.oppurtunity to have the full rights of marriage in a civil union" is incorrect.

Furthermore, 29 states have an outright ban on it via their constitution or a state statute.

I did not mean the federal government gave gays civil unions. gays are suing the federal govt. to have their definition of marriage shoved down everyone's throat at a national level because civil unions are not their objective. It fits in line with atheist and other liberal groups' intent to wipe Christianity out of the public eye. They are actively trying to prevent Christians from freely expressing their religion, which is their Constitutional right.

civil union has been rejected by gays. They want to impose their definition of marriage onto the the common Religious definition of marriage as it has stood since the.dawn of man.

jessejordan419
08-14-2012, 09:59 PM
We pretty much have a defacto national religion.

Your right: atheism. They have removed prayer from schools, the 10 Commandments from courthouses, Crosses from public lands, "In God We Trust" from the face of money onto the sides where it will wear off, and obama says we are not a Christian nation.

To top it off, sharia law has been cited on over 50 cases as the basis for ruling, bypassing our Constitution all together. It will be an islamic nation once they outbreed everyone else, which is what they have done/are doing in every European nation.

Over the past 50 years, you can follow the decline of America with it's forsaking of God. Either there will be Revival, and America will become great again, or we will continue to crumble under God's judgement until our once great nation lays in the boneyard of the other empires of the world.

habsheaven
08-14-2012, 10:00 PM
your way off base. Jews aren't outlawing pork, Christians aren't outlawing gay marriage, they gave them civil unions, but gays reject that.

Prayer in schools did not force all kids to pray, in fact, atheists have gone as far as to ban prayer at the flagpole before class. Now is that letting a religion have their prayer?

It harmed the atheist nothing to put headphones on during prayer, and it harms atheists nothing to display the 10 Commandments from courthouses. They are unlawfully banning Christians from their free exercise of Religion.

But you don't see atheists filing lawsuits through the aclu against the 30-50 court cases where shariah law was cited as the reason for ruling now do you. Would atheists file suits if schools started using halal meat in schools?

Your arrogance knows no bounds. Christians gave gays civil unions did they? That's awfully charitable of you.

habsheaven
08-14-2012, 10:04 PM
Your right: atheism. They have removed prayer from schools, the 10 Commandments from courthouses, Crosses from public lands, "In God We Trust" from the face of money onto the sides where it will wear off, and obama says we are not a Christian nation.

To top it off, sharia law has been cited on over 50 cases as the basis for ruling, bypassing our Constitution all together. It will be an islamic nation once they outbreed everyone else, which is what they have done/are doing in every European nation.

Over the past 50 years, you can follow the decline of America with it's forsaking of God. Either there will be Revival, and America will become great again, or we will continue to crumble under God's judgement until our once great nation lays in the boneyard of the other empires of the world.

What are you a racist? You have a problem with a certain segment of the population "outbreeding" you? You can't be serious. What kind of a christian are you? The WORST kind for sure.

theonedru
08-14-2012, 10:05 PM
Your right: atheism. They have removed prayer from schools, the 10 Commandments from courthouses, Crosses from public lands, "In God We Trust" from the face of money onto the sides where it will wear off, and obama says we are not a Christian nation.

To top it off, sharia law has been cited on over 50 cases as the basis for ruling, bypassing our Constitution all together. It will be an islamic nation once they outbreed everyone else, which is what they have done/are doing in every European nation.

Over the past 50 years, you can follow the decline of America with it's forsaking of God. Either there will be Revival, and America will become great again, or we will continue to crumble under God's judgement until our once great nation lays in the boneyard of the other empires of the world.


Basically you will never be happy until your warped version of Christianity is the law of the land and everyone regardless is made to obey it.. How Christian of you, Jesus would be proud

Wickabee
08-14-2012, 11:21 PM
It is not imposing religious beliefs, it has been custom for thousands of years, and gay marriage is unnatural to say the least. It is gays imposing their belief onto everyone else by not accepting civil unions.

Like it or not, the Bible clearly says what happens to the nations that allow this type of behavior. The westboro baptist nuts are picketing the totally wrong places, as they should be picketing gay establishments, not honorable straight soldiers' funerals. It makes no since.

On top of that, they protest in hatred, instead of showing Christ's love for sinners and showing His call for repentance in a tasteful way.

But I digress....


Atheists imposed their religious beliefs on everyone else by having prayer removed from school, the 10 Commandments removed from courthouses, and Crosses removed.from public lands.

If gay marriage becomes legal, you don't have to marry another guy. How is it imposing on you?

MasonRaymond0320
08-15-2012, 12:48 AM
this question is for anyone against gay marriages: If you are not gay, then why do you even take a stand against gay marriages when it has nothing to do with you?? Just because it may be against the bible....there are no scientific facts to back up why its wrong?

mrveggieman
08-15-2012, 07:53 AM
You know what they say about people who are so homophobic about gays? That deep down they are uncomfortable with their own sexuality and openly speak out against gays because deep down they are really homosexual.

Star_Cards
08-15-2012, 09:51 AM
this question is for anyone against gay marriages: If you are not gay, then why do you even take a stand against gay marriages when it has nothing to do with you?? Just because it may be against the bible....there are no scientific facts to back up why its wrong?

This has always been a question I'd like to know the answer. I get that someone can say that it is against their religion and that they have the right to think it's wrong, but that does not mean that it should be banned. I've brought this up before in this thread, but there are many things that are legal and against a religious rule. The religious thought about a subject has no business in the legality of said subject.

Star_Cards
08-15-2012, 10:06 AM
your way off base. Jews aren't outlawing pork, Christians aren't outlawing gay marriage, they gave them civil unions, but gays reject that.

Prayer in schools did not force all kids to pray, in fact, atheists have gone as far as to ban prayer at the flagpole before class. Now is that letting a religion have their prayer?

It harmed the atheist nothing to put headphones on during prayer, and it harms atheists nothing to display the 10 Commandments from courthouses. They are unlawfully banning Christians from their free exercise of Religion.

But you don't see atheists filing lawsuits through the aclu against the 30-50 court cases where shariah law was cited as the reason for ruling now do you. Would atheists file suits if schools started using halal meat in schools?

I never said Jews were outlawing pork. I said that they aren't trying to outlaw pork for everyone because it happens to be against their religion to consume it. I still don't know what you are talking about with civil unions. Also, it's not up to Christians "to give" anything to anyone. They may be the majority in America, but it's not up to them to dictate to the rest of America what should be.

As far as prayer goes, if a student wants to pray, they have every right to do so during the school day. No one will keep them from praying on their own if they are so inclined. If someone is stopped then that is an issue. The prayer in school issue deals with organized group prayer which has zero place in public school. If you want that for your child there are plenty of schools they can go to if you want them to have an education within a religious organization.

Posting the 10 commandments in publicly funded areas like courthouses endorses one religion over all of the other religions that the people of the United States has the right to worship or not. A government may have people within that believe specific religious ideals but should not endorse one over the other in a manner like posting the ten commandments does. Posting the 10 commandments isn't just about atheists and christians. It's about the millions of other religious people in this country who pay taxes just like us and shouldn't have their government endorse christianity over their religion. Yes, I agree it's not really that big of a deal if I see the 10 commandments at a government building, but it's simply not needed. And yes, it's not forcing anyone to believe something they don't want to, but religion needs to be left up to the individual, not the majority.


as far as sharia law being cited in a ruling or legislation... I'm not aware of these cases. I'd love to see a few that you are referencing. I'm against ALL religious ideals being used to legislate. It doesn't matter if it's christian, muslim, jewish, buddist, etc.

I'm not sure why you think this is a christian vs atheist thing alone. The last time I checked, most religions tend to be against gay marriage or homosexuality in general.

*censored*
08-15-2012, 10:31 AM
And how exactly can one claim a civil union is the same as a marriage?

Benefits that are restricted to "married" couples could be denied to those in civil unions because technically, it's not a marriage.

Separate but equal strikes again...

shrewsbury
08-15-2012, 11:00 AM
You know what they say about people who are so homophobic about gays? That deep down they are uncomfortable with their own sexuality and openly speak out against gays because deep down they are really homosexual.

this is the typical junk people try to use to get people to side with them, you give them no way to be right. this is the only method people can use to get people to agree with them, when they can't debate it with logic.

being against homosexual marriage does not make you homophobic or even anti gay.

theonedru
08-15-2012, 11:01 AM
And how exactly can one claim a civil union is the same as a marriage?

Benefits that are restricted to "married" couples could be denied to those in civil unions because technically, it's not a marriage.

Separate but equal strikes again...

Exactly, how do people conveniently forget this when arguing for civil unions instead of marriage..

mrveggieman
08-15-2012, 11:01 AM
this is the typical junk people try to use to get people to side with them, you give them no way to be right. this is the only method people can use to get people to agree with them, when they can't debate it with logic.

being against homosexual marriage does not make you homophobic or even anti gay.


So you don't think that some guy who goes around beating up gays for no reason other than the fact that they are gay dosen't have a lot of stuff going on with him?

*censored*
08-15-2012, 11:21 AM
I feel the most vehemently anti-gay ones definitely have a hint of mint.

The average "I'm against it but I'm not going to go curbstomping them over it" don't.

mrveggieman
08-15-2012, 11:28 AM
I feel the most vehemently anti-gay ones definitely have a hint of mint.

The average "I'm against it but I'm not going to go curbstomping them over it" don't.


CHURCH!! :love0030::love0030::love0030:

Star_Cards
08-15-2012, 12:04 PM
this is the typical junk people try to use to get people to side with them, you give them no way to be right. this is the only method people can use to get people to agree with them, when they can't debate it with logic.

being against homosexual marriage does not make you homophobic or even anti gay.

I agree with this. There are some people that are overly homophobic due to their need to look straight, but most people do not follow into this category.

I also agree with you that not everyone who is against gay marriage is homophobic.

jessejordan419
08-23-2012, 01:54 AM
What are you a racist? You have a problem with a certain segment of the population "outbreeding" you? You can't be serious. What kind of a christian are you? The WORST kind for sure.

Seeing as islam is not a race, I'm not a racist. It is their plan to take down infidel nations and install a caliphate. Look at Belgium, Holland, and soon Germany, France, and Italy. Spain is a great victory, for it will be reclaiming islamic lands that were lost.

Funny to be judged by an atheist to tell me what kind of Christian I am.

jessejordan419
08-23-2012, 01:55 AM
Basically you will never be happy until your warped version of Christianity is the law of the land and everyone regardless is made to obey it.. How Christian of you, Jesus would be proud

So you would be happy under sharia law? They execute homos. So much for a religion of peace. Christians just call them to repentance in Christ Jesus to escape eternal separation from God.

jessejordan419
08-23-2012, 01:56 AM
If gay marriage becomes legal, you don't have to marry another guy. How is it imposing on you?

Reread the thread, starting from post 1.

jessejordan419
08-23-2012, 02:00 AM
this question is for anyone against gay marriages: If you are not gay, then why do you even take a stand against gay marriages when it has nothing to do with you?? Just because it may be against the bible....there are no scientific facts to back up why its wrong?

So science is your God?

Once again, marriage is between a man and a woman. Civil unions are for gays. Gays wish to disrespect and deform the religious beliefs of Christians, Jews, muslims, and probably others by redefining marriage to fit their whim.

jessejordan419
08-23-2012, 02:04 AM
You know what they say about people who are so homophobic about gays? That deep down they are uncomfortable with their own sexuality and openly speak out against gays because deep down they are really homosexual.

Says the man who hates God by denying the Truth of the Bible and substituting his own belief of god in place of Scripture. Hey, you say so in your sig.

Namecall all you want, it bothers me none. It actually encourages me by letting me know I'm shining the Light in the darkness.

jessejordan419
08-23-2012, 02:08 AM
This has always been a question I'd like to know the answer. I get that someone can say that it is against their religion and that they have the right to think it's wrong, but that does not mean that it should be banned. I've brought this up before in this thread, but there are many things that are legal and against a religious rule. The religious thought about a subject has no business in the legality of said subject.

How many times must I repeat myself. Gays have the same rights as marriage in civil unions. Gays reject this because they want to pervert the traditional, Judeo-Christian definition of marriage, and impose pagan immortality upon religious people by perverting marriage. Same reason for the denial of polygamy, which was never condoned in Scripture, and always ended badly for those in the Bible who practiced it.

jessejordan419
08-23-2012, 02:13 AM
I never said Jews were outlawing pork. I said that they aren't trying to outlaw pork for everyone because it happens to be against their religion to consume it. I still don't know what you are talking about with civil unions. Also, it's not up to Christians "to give" anything to anyone. They may be the majority in America, but it's not up to them to dictate to the rest of America what should be.

As far as prayer goes, if a student wants to pray, they have every right to do so during the school day. No one will keep them from praying on their own if they are so inclined. If someone is stopped then that is an issue. The prayer in school issue deals with organized group prayer which has zero place in public school. If you want that for your child there are plenty of schools they can go to if you want them to have an education within a religious organizationi.

Posting the 10 commandments in publicly funded areas like courthouses endorses one religion over all of the other religions that the people of the United States has the right to worship or not. A government may have people within that believe specific religious ideals but should not endorse one over the other in a manner like posting the ten commandments does. Posting the 10 commandments isn't just about atheists and christians. It's about the millions of other religious people in this country who pay taxes just like us and shouldn't have their government endorse christianity over their religion. Yes, I agree it's not really that big of a deal if I see the 10 commandments at a government building, but it's simply not needed. And yes, it's not forcing anyone to believe something they don't want to, but religion needs to be left up to the individual, not the majority.


as far as sharia law being cited in a ruling or legislation... I'm not aware of these cases. I'd love to see a few that you are referencing. I'm against ALL religious ideals being used to legislate. It doesn't matter if it's christian, muslim, jewish, buddist, etc.

I'm not sure why you think this is a christian vs atheist thing alone. The last time I checked, most religions tend to be against gay marriage or homosexuality in general.

Constitutionally, this is all fallacy. Congress is prevented from establishing a national religion, OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEROF. This means you cannot stop public prayer in school, you cannot force US to take down the 10 Commandments in front of courthouses, and you cannot block nativity scenes in from of government buildings, whether state, local, or federal.

Like it or not, the Constitution says we have the right to do these things. Liberal interpretation has allowed all sorts of unconstitutional nonsense.

jessejordan419
08-23-2012, 02:18 AM
And how exactly can one claim a civil union is the same as a marriage?

Benefits that are restricted to "married" couples could be denied to those in civil unions because technically, it's not a marriage.

Separate but equal strikes again...

Fallacy, outright untruth, another attempt to allow the perversion of the sanctity of marriage.

So much for equality. Affirmative action, hate crime laws, diversity, hate speech laws, protected groups or classes, all elevate one group over the rest. The liberal pursuit for "equality" has achieved exactly the opposite.

jessejordan419
08-23-2012, 02:19 AM
Exactly, how do people conveniently forget this when arguing for civil unions instead of marriage..

Because it is not true.

jessejordan419
08-23-2012, 02:20 AM
So you don't think that some guy who goes around beating up gays for no reason other than the fact that they are gay dosen't have a lot of stuff going on with him?

How many red herrings can you continue to pull out of your deflection hat?

Wickabee
08-23-2012, 02:26 AM
Wow, someone was busy.


Reread the thread, starting from post 1.

Ok, I did. I still have no idea how it imposes anything on you. Real answer please.

jessejordan419
08-23-2012, 02:48 AM
Wow, someone was busy.



Ok, I did. I still have no idea how it imposes anything on you. Real answer please.

Reread #67, and if you still don't get it, I can't help you. Hello walls........

Wickabee
08-23-2012, 10:15 AM
So you do think you'll be forced to marry a dude.

mrveggieman
08-23-2012, 10:47 AM
Im starting to think that a lot of these anti gay marriage people deep down really want a gay marriage and will have one once it becomes legal.

Wickabee
08-23-2012, 10:49 AM
Im starting to think that a lot of these anti gay marriage people deep down really want a gay marriage and will have one once it becomes legal.

No, they're against it because if it's legal, there will be no more excuses to deny the truth...

ensbergcollector
08-23-2012, 11:07 AM
yeah, we have resorted to the "if you are against gay marriage it is because secretly you are gay." I know I can always come here for some mature, educated, dialogue.

now, I am fully aware that those arguing against gay marriage are not always acting mature and educated. doesn't excuse the not so subtle insults

Wickabee
08-23-2012, 11:12 AM
yeah, we have resorted to the "if you are against gay marriage it is because secretly you are gay." I know I can always come here for some mature, educated, dialogue.
Fair enough, but seriously, this guy doesn't explain himself at all. I still have no idea how allowing gay marriage imposes anything on him, or anyone else, unless he thinks gay marriage means all straight marriage will be abolished.


now, I am fully aware that those arguing against gay marriage are not always acting mature and educated. doesn't excuse the not so subtle insults

Well it wasn't exactly subtle and I didn't no gey was an insult. Do you really think "gay" is an insult on the level of, say, "stupid" or "ugly"? If you do, and since we're not in grade 4, I have to wonder if that's a bigoted remark.

ensbergcollector
08-23-2012, 11:13 AM
Fair enough, but seriously, this guy doesn't explain himself at all. I still have no idea how allowing gay marriage imposes anything on him, or anyone else, unless he thinks gay marriage means all straight marriage will be abolished.



Well it wasn't exactly subtle and I didn't no gey was an insult. Do you really think "gay" is an insult on the level of, say, "stupid" or "ugly"? If you do, and since we're not in grade 4, I have to wonder if that's a bigoted remark.

wow, me saying that telling a straight person that they secretly want a gay marriage is an insult makes me a bigot?

Wickabee
08-23-2012, 11:16 AM
wow, me saying that telling a straight person that they secretly want a gay marriage is an insult makes me a bigot?

Actually that isn't what you said.


yeah, we have resorted to the "if you are against gay marriage it is because secretly you are gay." I know I can always come here for some mature, educated, dialogue.

now, I am fully aware that those arguing against gay marriage are not always acting mature and educated. doesn't excuse the not so subtle insults

So, saying someone is "gay" is an insult. Your words, not mine.

habsheaven
08-23-2012, 11:18 AM
wow, me saying that telling a straight person that they secretly want a gay marriage is an insult makes me a bigot?

That's certainly what it looks like.

Wickabee
08-23-2012, 11:20 AM
That's certainly what it looks like.

Again, not what he said.

Star_Cards
08-23-2012, 03:14 PM
How many times must I repeat myself. Gays have the same rights as marriage in civil unions. Gays reject this because they want to pervert the traditional, Judeo-Christian definition of marriage, and impose pagan immortality upon religious people by perverting marriage. Same reason for the denial of polygamy, which was never condoned in Scripture, and always ended badly for those in the Bible who practiced it.


You miss the point altogether. Recognizing gay marriage is an issue with state law. It has nothing to do with religious marriage whatsoever. The state definition of marriage is not linked to the Christian or any other religions definition of marriage. They are completely two different things. One follows rules of a specific religion and the other is a legal contract, to simplify it.

Star_Cards
08-23-2012, 03:17 PM
Constitutionally, this is all fallacy. Congress is prevented from establishing a national religion, OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEROF. This means you cannot stop public prayer in school, you cannot force US to take down the 10 Commandments in front of courthouses, and you cannot block nativity scenes in from of government buildings, whether state, local, or federal.


Like it or not, the Constitution says we have the right to do these things. Liberal interpretation has allowed all sorts of unconstitutional nonsense.

Ur right. Our government doesn't designate what religion we must follow. That said, any publicly funded organization should be void of any religious type activities like praying. If all can't be offered then none should be

mrveggieman
08-23-2012, 03:27 PM
Ur right. Our government doesn't designate what religion we must follow. That said, any publicly funded organization should be void of any religious type activities like praying. If all can't be offered then none should be


CHURCH!! :love0030::love0030::love0030:

shrewsbury
08-23-2012, 03:31 PM
so people on welfare shouldn't be able to go to church?

mrveggieman
08-23-2012, 03:38 PM
so people on welfare shouldn't be able to go to church?

?????

Star_Cards
08-23-2012, 04:05 PM
so people on welfare shouldn't be able to go to church?

nope. that wouldn't apply because they wouldn't have all people on welfare go to a specific place of worship or perform any religious ritual while receiving, applying for, or spending their welfare payments. The recipients of welfare are free to follow whatever religious belief they want.

Star_Cards
08-23-2012, 04:05 PM
?????

I got the point he was trying to make even though it's apples and oranges.

Wickabee
08-23-2012, 04:25 PM
I got the point he was trying to make even though it's apples and oranges.

Thanks, because I was on the same page as veggie until I read your response.

theonedru
08-23-2012, 04:59 PM
So you would be happy under sharia law? They execute homos. So much for a religion of peace. Christians just call them to repentance in Christ Jesus to escape eternal separation from God.

I see your posts daily and truly wonder what you really know of Christianity. In fact I highly doubt your religious convictions because a true Christian would never ever resort to the level you do, your rantings are more in line with a lot of hate groups rhetoric .. Just because I call myself a potato doesn't mean I would make great potato salad.

*I did not call you a hate monger I just said your thoughts were in line with their beliefs more so than real Christians (posting this so he cannot twist my words)

theonedru
08-23-2012, 05:03 PM
I write this because many people say that Jesus did not speak against homosexuality, and therefore, He was not against it. I write this to show evidence to the contrary.

Matthew 19:4-6

4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.


Luke 17:28-30

28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

and Jesus' Word on the Old Testament

John 5:46-47

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

This shows that Jesus does not condemn the Law of Moses, or replace it; but Fulfills it. Yes, He gave us greater commandments: To love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind; and to love your neighbor as yourself. But this does not diminish the consequences for behavior that God called, "an abomination". And this includes cross-dressing, incest, and bestiality.

You can say you don't believe that God is this or that, but you cannot change what His Word says. You are inventing your own interpretation of what God is, and by doing this, you are creating your own god. The First Commandment is: I AM the Lord thy God, thou shalt have no other gods before Me.

Homosexuality in the rest of the New Testament:

Jude 6-8

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. 8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind(homosexuals), 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

I mean these quotes relate in no way to homosexuality in any way shape or form except that you say they do which doesn't lay any merit to the words themselves

theonedru
08-23-2012, 05:10 PM
John 5:46-47

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

This shows that Jesus does not condemn the Law of Moses, or replace it; but Fulfills it. Yes, He gave us greater commandments: To love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind; and to love your neighbor as yourself. But this does not diminish the consequences for behavior that God called, "an abomination". And this includes cross-dressing, incest, and bestiality.

You can say you don't believe that God is this or that, but you cannot change what His Word says. You are inventing your own interpretation of what God is, and by doing this, you are creating your own god. The First Commandment is: I AM the Lord thy God, thou shalt have no other gods before Me.

and this is the coup de grace. I mean how can you write this and then say what you say claiming what you claim. Thats hypocrisy at its finest. By posting this you have shown us all that everything you say is a joke because what you spew is not what you believe.

Wickabee
08-23-2012, 05:40 PM
Dru, I hate to defend jesse, but he should be using a different Bible...

1 Corinthians 6: 9-11

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.




9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men
10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.





9 Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality,
10 or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God.
11 Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

shrewsbury
08-23-2012, 05:42 PM
wickabee, i am impressed!!!!!!!!!!!

Wickabee
08-23-2012, 05:46 PM
wickabee, i am impressed!!!!!!!!!!!

By what, I wonder? Is it the fact I...

A - ...am not talking out of my but when I speak about the Bible?
B - ...will quote scripture that does go against what my perceived beliefs are?
C - ...defended jesse?
D - ...all of the above?
E - ...can fold the top part of my left ear inside out?

pspstatus
08-23-2012, 06:15 PM
By what, I wonder? Is it the fact I...

A - ...am not talking out of my but when I speak about the Bible?
B - ...will quote scripture that does go against what my perceived beliefs are?
C - ...defended jesse?
D - ...all of the above?
E - ...can fold the top part of my left ear inside out?


I choose F- All of the above, except C.

theonedru
08-23-2012, 06:44 PM
Dru, I hate to defend jesse, but he should be using a different Bible...

1 Corinthians 6: 9-11

And we have another rip in the page brought forth by Wickabee. The fact that there are numerous interpretations of said bible. Just more proof as to why we cannot believe much said in it.

Wickabee
08-23-2012, 07:01 PM
And we have another rip in the page brought forth by Wickabee. The fact that there are numerous interpretations of said bible. Just more proof as to why we cannot believe much said in it.

The interpretations are the same, except for the King James that jesse is using. The NT does speak against homosexuality here. I'm sorry, but you're wrong on this one.

That isn't to say it's an argument against gay marriage and, as I was once told by a very faithful Christian, while it may be up in the air whether Jesus himself said anything about homosexuality, he never once said anything about homosexuals.
As such, I highly doubt that denying them the right to marry by secular definition would matter one iota to Jesus, or God.
Do I think homosexuality is a sin as defined by the bible? Yes. Do I think that has anything to do with what our laws are? Not one bit. No one is forcing you to be homosexual and it is not for you to judge anyone on their righteousness for any reason, even homosexuality. It is not for any person or persons to force God's will on the people. It is up to God to judge the people when the time comes. End of story.
So, to all you who are against gay marriage, vote against it, speak against it, etc, etc, you are all judging. You are all trying to make God's word and Jesus' teaching a part of the world and, anyone who truly studies Jesus knows his followers are NOT to be part of this world.

Star_Cards
08-23-2012, 11:57 PM
I'm still so confused why people think that proving the bible says homosexuality is wrong has any bearing on the topic of the government having laws against recognizing gay marriage.

mrveggieman
08-24-2012, 07:42 AM
The interpretations are the same, except for the King James that jesse is using. The NT does speak against homosexuality here. I'm sorry, but you're wrong on this one.

That isn't to say it's an argument against gay marriage and, as I was once told by a very faithful Christian, while it may be up in the air whether Jesus himself said anything about homosexuality, he never once said anything about homosexuals.
As such, I highly doubt that denying them the right to marry by secular definition would matter one iota to Jesus, or God.
Do I think homosexuality is a sin as defined by the bible? Yes. Do I think that has anything to do with what our laws are? Not one bit. No one is forcing you to be homosexual and it is not for you to judge anyone on their righteousness for any reason, even homosexuality. It is not for any person or persons to force God's will on the people. It is up to God to judge the people when the time comes. End of story.
So, to all you who are against gay marriage, vote against it, speak against it, etc, etc, you are all judging. You are all trying to make God's word and Jesus' teaching a part of the world and, anyone who truly studies Jesus knows his followers are NOT to be part of this world.

DOUBLE

CHURCH!! :love0030::love0030::love0030:
CHURCH!! :love0030::love0030::love0030:

habsheaven
08-24-2012, 07:48 AM
I'm still so confused why people think that proving the bible says homosexuality is wrong has any bearing on the topic of the government having laws against recognizing gay marriage.

It doesn't; and the people that use that argument are only trying to validate their own feelings about the subject. In their mind, if the bible says their opinion is right then they must be right.

mrveggieman
08-24-2012, 08:03 AM
It doesn't; and the people that use that argument are only trying to validate their own feelings about the subject. In their mind, if the bible says their opinion is right then they must be right.


My point exactly. If people want to have all of their laws based on the bible at least be consistent about it. They should also be infavor of closing all business on the sabbath day as well as outlawing pork and shellfish.

theonedru
08-24-2012, 01:37 PM
Dru, I hate to defend jesse, but he should be using a different Bible...

1 Corinthians 6: 9-11

which one to suit who's taste, there are over 100 different versions of the bible that I know of when doing research and possible thousands worldwide.

Wickabee
08-24-2012, 01:39 PM
which one to suit who's taste, there are over 100 different versions of the bible that I know of when doing research and possible thousands worldwide.

It's pretty clear what the passage is and means. I gave you three versions that say homosexual acts are a sin as defined by the Bible. Any other translation is just wrong, plain and simple.

Again, it is not an argument against gay marriage or for laws against homosexuality. Anyone who tries to do so is making Jesus a part of this world, and followers of Jesus are not to be a part of this world, so I don't see how his teachings should be the laws of this world.

Wickabee
08-24-2012, 01:54 PM
But hey, let's do this.
Same passage from:

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous and the wrongdoers will not inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived (misled): neither the impure and immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who participate in homosexuality...


9 Don’t you know that people who are unjust won’t inherit God’s kingdom? Don’t be deceived. Those who are sexually immoral, those who worship false gods, adulterers, both participants in same-sex intercourse...


9 Don’t you know that unrighteous people will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don’t delude yourselves — people who engage in sex before marriage, who worship idols, who engage in sex after marriage with someone other than their spouse, who engage in active or passive homosexuality...


9 Don’t you know that evil people won’t have a share in the blessings of God’s kingdom? Don’t fool yourselves! No one who is immoral or worships idols or is unfaithful in marriage or is a pervert or behaves like a homosexual...


Surely you know that people who do wrong will not get to enjoy God’s kingdom. Don’t be fooled. These are the people who will not get to enjoy his kingdom: those who sin sexually, those who worship idols, those who commit adultery, men who let other men use them for sex or who have sex with other men...


9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20corinthians%206:%209-11&version=ESV#fen-ESV-28460a)] will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality...


9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20corinthians%206:%209-11&version=ESVUK#fen-ESVUK-28460a)] will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practise homosexuality...


9 Don’t you know that wicked people won’t inherit the kingdom of God? Stop deceiving yourselves! People who continue to commit sexual sins, who worship false gods, those who commit adultery, homosexuals...


9 Surely you know that the wicked will not possess God's Kingdom. Do not fool yourselves; people who are immoral or who worship idols or are adulterers or homosexual perverts...


9 Don’t you know that the unrighteous will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be deceived: No sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, or anyone practicing homosexuality...


9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Neither sexually immoral people, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor passive homosexual partners, nor dominant homosexual partners...

Do I really need to continue?

Wickabee
08-24-2012, 01:57 PM
Then we have Romans 1: 26, 27

From the King James


26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.