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pwaldo
08-20-2012, 03:49 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2190935/Downs-syndrome-girl-11-faces-death-penalty-desecrating-Koran-Pakistan.html


An 11-year-old girl thought to suffer from Down's Syndrome is facing the death penalty in Pakistan for apparently burning pages from the Koran.

Furious mobs of Muslim locals gathered outside the home of Christian girl Rifta Masih after she was found with charred pages of the Islamic holy book.

She was arrested and has been held in custody for the last 14 days under Pakistan’s controversial blasphemy laws. A conviction could see her executed.

A Pakistani police officer, Zabi Ullah, said today that the girl was arrested after hundreds of neighbors gathered outside her house in Mehrabadi, a poor outlying district of the capital, Islamabad.

He said the police took the girl to the police station, and that she’s been held for 14 days while authorities investigate.

‘About 500-600 people had gathered outside her house in Islamabad, and they were very emotional, angry and they might have harmed her if we had not quickly reacted,’ he said.

‘Some Muslims from the area claim the girl had burned pages of the Koran, and we are investigating, and we have not reached any conclusion,’ he said.

Another police official, Qasim Niazi, said when the girl was brought to the police station she had a shopping bag that contained various religious and Arabic-language papers that had been partly burned but no Koran.

Officers added that the matter could be dropped once the investigation is completed and the atmosphere is defused, saying there was ‘nothing much to the case.’ He did not want to be identified due to the sensitivity of the case.

Meanwhile, Pakistan's president Asif Ali Zardari said he had 'taken notice' of the reports of the arrest and asked Pakistan's interior ministry to present a report to him.

There were varying reports on the girl’s age and whether she suffered from Down's Syndrome. Ullah said she was 16 while other officials have said she was either 12 or 11. Niazi said that when the girl was brought to the police station she was scared and unable to speak normally, but he did not know whether she suffered from mental health issues.

The arrest of the girl and outrage among the local community demonstrates the deep emotion that suspected blasphemy cases can evoke in this conservative Muslim country, where rising extremism often means religious minorities live in fear of persecution.

Christians often live in fear that they will be accused of blasphemy, and many critics say the legislation is sometimes used to settle scores.

Angry mobs have been known to sometimes take the law into their own hands and beat or kill people who are accused of violating the blasphemy laws. In July, thousands of people dragged a Pakistani man accused of desecrating the Koran from a police station in the central Pakistani city of Bahawalpur, beat him to death and then set his body on fire.

Last year, two prominent Pakistani political figures who spoke out against the laws were killed, in attacks that raised concerns about the rise of religious extremism in Pakistan.

Liberal politician Salman Taseer was shot and killed by one of his own guards in January 2011, and in March 2011, militants gunned down Shahbaz Bhatti, the only Christian minister in Pakistan’s Cabinet.

mrveggieman
08-20-2012, 03:59 PM
Wow that is awful. This is what can happen in america if the fringe conservative right wing has their way.

shrewsbury
08-20-2012, 04:05 PM
veggie, why oh why?

first off this is why some of us do not like muslim law and why we will not accept it.
but you compare these same laws to conservatives, who may not even be religious and christians, who are totally against these acts.
how many times have I pointed out what happens in muslim rules countries, only to have people try to compare it to christian based countries, there is no comparison.

AUTaxMan
08-20-2012, 04:08 PM
Wow that is awful. This is what can happen in america if the fringe conservative right wing has their way.

I don't even know how to respond to that statement. It's asinine on so many levels.

Wickabee
08-20-2012, 04:25 PM
From what I read, the neighbours killing her was a distinct possibility, so they took her away from the situation. This case has a distinct possibility of being dropped completely once emotion dies down.
As I see it, nothing actually wrong has been done by anyone but the neighbours and if she doesn't have Downs, then it's almost downright understandable.

At this point.

Wickabee
08-20-2012, 04:27 PM
veggie, why oh why?

first off this is why some of us do not like muslim law and why we will not accept it.
but you compare these same laws to conservatives, who may not even be religious and christians, who are totally against these acts.
how many times have I pointed out what happens in muslim rules countries, only to have people try to compare it to christian based countries, there is no comparison.

Absolutely. At the same time, this sort of thing, whether it be this exact scenario, will happen if any religious group takes control.

And just because it's worse elsewhere doesn't mean it can't be better here.

habsheaven
08-20-2012, 04:29 PM
This whole article is just more Islam bashing. The title and the opening sentence are very misleading. No need for any of it.

mrveggieman
08-20-2012, 04:29 PM
Thank God that America has not stopped to the level of religious extremism that is in the middle east. I pray that it never happens here. However we are already on that slippery slope with gays not being given equal rights under the law. Don't give me that crap about gay civil unions. A gay civil union is not even recognized in all states for God's sakes. We have these asinine laws that discriminate against gays based on religious concepts. Again I have no problem with anyone peacefully practicing his/her chosen religion but to make laws rooted in your religion that hurt other people is just plain wrong. While we may not be lynching people because they descrated a bible over here (not legally at least) but how can we call another country out for being bigots based on religion when we as americans are bigots against sexual orientation because of our religion?

shrewsbury
08-20-2012, 04:39 PM
veggie, so a gay not being able to legally be married and murdering children and gays and woman are the same?

That's a bunch of liberal nonsense and the exact scare tactics they have used to try and get people to be anti christian, and I admit, it has worked pretty well.

wickabee, i agree it can be better and always can be better. i do have to disagree about any religious group who may take control will have the same results

mrveggieman
08-20-2012, 04:47 PM
veggie, so a gay not being able to legally be married and murdering children and gays and woman are the same?

That's a bunch of liberal nonsense and the exact scare tactics they have used to try and get people to be anti christian, and I admit, it has worked pretty well.

wickabee, i agree it can be better and always can be better. i do have to disagree about any religious group who may take control will have the same results


Per the bible one wrong (sin) is no greater than the other. While it we may not have gone as far to start lynching children I am afraid of how far the right wingers will go. Will they bring back jim crow laws? Will the lock people up for not following the state scantioned religion? What about not dressing the way the state says is ok? Wait a minute we already have that? Where does it stop. We need to stop worring about what is wrong with the middle east when america is not right herself.

Wickabee
08-20-2012, 04:59 PM
veggie, so a gay not being able to legally be married and murdering children and gays and woman are the same?
No, but one is a step towards the other.


That's a bunch of liberal nonsense and the exact scare tactics they have used to try and get people to be anti christian, and I admit, it has worked pretty well.
Almost as well as the concept of Hell worked to make people Christian. Hmmm...


wickabee, i agree it can be better and always can be better. i do have to disagree about any religious group who may take control will have the same results

On the basis of what exactly? Keep in mind I mean a Religious Group in control. Not a Christian President, not a Christian congress, I mean control. You don't think that a Christian group with 100% control of the laws in the land will impose their beliefs on everyone the way Islamic governments tend to?

ensbergcollector
08-20-2012, 05:43 PM
...

Wickabee
08-20-2012, 06:12 PM
Something tells me I might have enjoyed that post...

shrewsbury
08-20-2012, 06:52 PM
wickabee, so a law not being changed to suite homosexuals is one step closer to imprisoning them, killing DS kids, and woman? You have a twisted way of thinking then. you can contrast and compare anyway you like, but you are stretching it beyond anything realistic. and with this logic, buying a gun is one step closer to murdering someone, which can be twisted to look like it is, but it is not even close to the reality of it.

hell works for christians? well perhaps those afraid of death and seeking a way to immortality, no different than nonbelievers who "find" Jesus in bad times, the prisons are full of them. you can easily classify anyone who says they are christians as such, because there is no way to sort them out. but the nice thing about this is Jesus would accept anyone, no exclusions, but He is not fooled by talk or actions, for He is God. If the only reason or even if the main reason someone is a Christian is they fear hell, then they may have missed the point of it all.

the last one, I may have to give you. humans are humans and no matter who they are they seem to be easily got up in what they want and fail to look around, but if they only followed the teachings of Jesus, you could burn the Bible all day long, you could believe what you wanted, and prayer, giving alms, and diet would have no formal criteria. race, financial status, nor culture would matter, sounds pretty different than Islam to me.

The shame is even Jesus knew we would not all understand and there would be disagreement with all of us. but to not stand up against it is wrong, and to say such things as "Christians are against gay marriage and that is as bad as muslims imprisoning gays" is wrong as well.

Wickabee
08-20-2012, 07:02 PM
wickabee, so a law not being changed to suite homosexuals is one step closer to imprisoning them, killing DS kids, and woman? You have a twisted way of thinking then. you can contrast and compare anyway you like, but you are stretching it beyond anything realistic. and with this logic, buying a gun is one step closer to murdering someone, which can be twisted to look like it is, but it is not even close to the reality of it.
Wow. Talk about twisted thinking. Let me put it this way. If I'm ten feet away from a door and I have the option of stepping another foot away from the door or not moving, which option is going to leave me one step closer to the door?
Yes, denying one group's right is one step closer than denying no one's rights. If you don't see that, I can't say your thinking is twisted, but I have to question your basic math and measuring skills.


hell works for christians? well perhaps those afraid of death and seeking a way to immortality, no different than nonbelievers who "find" Jesus in bad times, the prisons are full of them. you can easily classify anyone who says they are christians as such, because there is no way to sort them out. but the nice thing about this is Jesus would accept anyone, no exclusions, but He is not fooled by talk or actions, for He is God. If the only reason or even if the main reason someone is a Christian is they fear hell, then they may have missed the point of it all.
Please. Now you're using the "Well some, but not most, but there's no way of sorting them out" argument? Really? Hell wasn't ever used to scare indigenous peoples into becoming Christian? It's never used to keep kids in line through the fear of God?
Or is it just that you don't do that yourself, so you assume most, if not all, Christians are the same as you?


the last one, I may have to give you. humans are humans and no matter who they are they seem to be easily got up in what they want and fail to look around, but if they only followed the teachings of Jesus, you could burn the Bible all day long, you could believe what you wanted, and prayer, giving alms, and diet would have no formal criteria. race, financial status, nor culture would matter, sounds pretty different than Islam to me.
We're not talking about genuine followers of Christ, we're talking about "Christians". As a group, Christians are largely not followers of Christ. They're more often followers of religion (religion being a follower of money).


The shame is even Jesus knew we would not all understand and there would be disagreement with all of us. but to not stand up against it is wrong, and to say such things as "Christians are against gay marriage and that is as bad as muslims imprisoning gays" is wrong as well.
I never said it was the same. I said denying gays marriage equality sits one step closer than passing gay marriage does.

shrewsbury
08-20-2012, 07:21 PM
If I'm ten feet away from a door and I have the option of stepping another foot away from the door or not moving, which option is going to leave me one step closer to the door?[QUOTE]

this could be the door to open up for gay marriage, it does not have to be a bad choice, you just assume it will be.

[QUOTE]Please. Now you're using the "Well some, but not most, but there's no way of sorting them out" argument? Really? Hell wasn't ever used to scare indigenous peoples into becoming Christian? It's never used to keep kids in line through the fear of God?
Or is it just that you don't do that yourself, so you assume most, if not all, Christians are the same as you?


and children and indigenous people have always been abused, using hell is just easier than having to use your boot all the time. again you link christianity to some form of hatred but never the good it does.


Or is it just that you don't do that yourself, so you assume most, if not all, Christians are the same as you?


i would never put that bad omen on anyone, no one should be like me, think of how much arguing they would have to do with just you alone!!!


We're not talking about genuine followers of Christ, we're talking about "Christians". As a group, Christians are largely not followers of Christ. They're more often followers of religion (religion being a follower of money).

this i will agree with and say I do enjoy when we can agree on something


I said denying gays marriage equality sits one step closer than passing gay marriage does.

and I would say this shows how far they have come and how they could one day be open to accepting gay marriage. even the money lead christians still have the quality of accepting all, they are just slow at it.

theonedru
08-20-2012, 08:40 PM
How has this got to be 2 pages. Anyone with any rational and a measurable IQ can see no need for half the stuff stated. And the title is a little misleading according to whats stated in the article.

Wickabee
08-20-2012, 09:03 PM
this could be the door to open up for gay marriage, it does not have to be a bad choice, you just assume it will be.

...

You did not seriously just say that.

I don't want to be insulting, but did you seriously just say that? The door has nothing to do with anything. It's just a door. I could have said "rock" or |"sofa" or "super fluffy kitten" and my point, which you obviously missed by miles, stays the same.
By denying gays the right that you enjoy to marry the person you fall in love with, you are standing one step closer to treating them as they are treated in Islamic countries than you would be if you gave them the right they deserve as human beings.




and children and indigenous people have always been abused, using hell is just easier than having to use your boot all the time. again you link christianity to some form of hatred but never the good it does.
No, actually I'm linking Christianity to a "Santa Clause" use of what are supposed to be dearly held beliefs. I'm linking Christianity to ruling through fear instead of respect and knowledge. I said nothing of hate. You did.




i would never put that bad omen on anyone, no one should be like me, think of how much arguing they would have to do with just you alone!!!
It would really be less if you read my posts properly...just sayin'

...did you really focus on what was behind the door?




this i will agree with and say I do enjoy when we can agree on something
As do I. It's few and far between. Although I will say that people who agree with me all the time are very, very boring to talk with.




and I would say this shows how far they have come and how they could one day be open to accepting gay marriage. even the money lead christians still have the quality of accepting all, they are just slow at it.

I don't know about accepting gay marriage. Accepting that pro-marriage equality now outnumbers them in a few years, which it inevitably will, I can see, but they'll never accept gay marriage.

pwaldo
08-20-2012, 09:30 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/pakistan-girl-jailed-accused-blasphemy-191418897.html


Some human rights officials and media reports said the girl was mentally handicapped. Police gave conflicting reports of her age as 11 and 16.

Some residents claimed they actually saw burnt pages of Quran — either at the local mosque or at the girl's house. Few people in Pakistan actually speak or read Arabic, so often assume that anything they see with Arabic script is believed to be from the Quran, sometimes the only Arabic-language book people have seen.

In Washington, State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland called the case "deeply disturbing".

"We urge the government of Pakistan to protect not just its religious minority citizens but also women and girls," she said.

The Associated Press is withholding the girl's name; the AP does not generally identify juveniles under 18 who are accused of crimes.

The case demonstrates the deep emotion that suspected blasphemy cases can evoke in a country where religion Many critics say the blasphemy laws are often abused.

"It has been exploited by individuals to settle personal scores, to grab land, to violate the rights of non-Muslims, to basically harass them," said the head of the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan, Zora Yusuf.

Those convicted of blasphemy can spend years in prison and often face mob justice by extremists when they finally do get out. In July, thousands of people dragged a man accused of desecrating the Quran from a police station in the central city of Bahawalpur, beat him to death and then set his body on fire.

Attempts to revoke or alter the blasphemy laws have been met with violent opposition. Last year, two prominent political figures who spoke out against the laws were killed in attacks that basically ended any attempts at reform.

The girl's jailing terrified her Christian neighbors, many of whom left their homes in fear after the incident. One resident said Muslims used to object to the noise when Christians sang songs during their services. After the girl was accused he said senior members of the Muslim community pressured landlords to evict Christian tenants.

But Muslim residents insisted they treated their neighbors with respect, and said Christians needed to respect Islamic traditions and culture.

"Their priest should tell them that they should respect the call for prayer. They should respect the mosque and the Quran," said Haji Pervez, one of several Muslims gathered at the local mosque less than 100 yards (meters) from the grey concrete house where the Christian girl lived.

"This is what should have happened. We are standing in the house of God. This incident has happened and it is true. It was not good."

"Even a 3-year-old, 4-year-old child knows: "This is Muslim. This is Christian. This is our religion," said shopkeeper Mohammed Ilyas.

shrewsbury
08-21-2012, 09:31 AM
wickabee, it would be less if you were not always on the attack.

[QUOTE]By denying gays the right that you enjoy to marry the person you fall in love with, you are standing one step closer to treating them as they are treated in Islamic countries than you would be if you gave them the right they deserve as human beings.
[QUOTE]

keep on believing it, if it makes you happy

angel0430
08-21-2012, 11:19 AM
And people complain about how "bad" we have it in here...SMH... we need to stop complaining about every single thing and realize that we have the freedom to do whatever we want without being persecuted, prosecuted and killed.

theonedru
08-21-2012, 11:38 AM
And people complain about how "bad" we have it in here...SMH... we need to stop complaining about every single thing and realize that we have the freedom to do whatever we want without being persecuted, prosecuted and killed.

Really, seriously, you might need to go back and re-read your history of this country

Wickabee
08-21-2012, 12:19 PM
wickabee, it would be less if you were not always on the attack.
Help me out here. Are you telling me to shut up or change my beliefs? Disagreeing with you does not mean I'm on the attack. You know better than that, shrew. Or is this what you pull out when you know you're wrong? I notice you never have much to say after accusing someone of attacking when in reality all they did was make a point you can't argue against.



By denying gays the right that you enjoy to marry the person you fall in love with, you are standing one step closer to treating them as they are treated in Islamic countries than you would be if you gave them the right they deserve as human beings.


keep on believing it, if it makes you happy
It doesn't "make me happy" it's the truth. I fear you don't understand what I'm saying. I'll try a third way and if you still don't understand, then I have to think you're deliberately doing so.

Denying one's rights is closer to abusing them than giving them those rights is.

IN THE CASE OF GAYS

American is closer to abusing them than, say, Canada. Gays have more rights in Canada than in America. I'm not saying that not giving them the right to marry puts you, as a nation, closer to abusing them than you already are, but it does leave you exactly where you are which is one step closer to abusing them than them having rights.

I'm not saying you're any worse than you were yesterday. I'm saying you're worse than you could be today.



And people complain about how "bad" we have it in here...SMH... we need to stop complaining about every single thing and realize that we have the freedom to do whatever we want without being persecuted, prosecuted and killed.

I love this argument.
"SEE! It's worse elsewhere! Now shut up and eat your crap because they eat worse crap somewhere else!"

That doesn't make the crap we're eating any better. I you eat poison, you're not going to stay alive because the guy next to you ate more.

angel0430
08-21-2012, 03:21 PM
Really, seriously, you might need to go back and re-read your history of this country

YES, seriously...

angel0430
08-21-2012, 03:22 PM
You guys are a bunch of cry babies and you all you do is complain. If you do not like in here, move to another country and let me know how that goes.

Wickabee
08-21-2012, 03:49 PM
You guys are a bunch of cry babies and you all you do is complain. If you do not like in here, move to another country and let me know how that goes.

I'm in another country. I love it.

I'll tell you what, you and a friend go drink some poison. Make sure you drink a little less than him. Then let me know if only he died or you both did.

If you're still alive, then your point is valid.

Just because it's worse elsewhere does not mean it shouldn't get better here.

theonedru
08-21-2012, 04:11 PM
You guys are a bunch of cry babies and you all you do is complain. If you do not like in here, move to another country and let me know how that goes.

Its nice to know you think scf rules do not apply to you.

theonedru
08-21-2012, 04:19 PM
You guys are a bunch of cry babies and you all you do is complain. If you do not like in here, move to another country and let me know how that goes.

I may complain a lot but I also put my money where my mouth is. I support a lot of charities and community actions to help improve the lives of those less fortunate. As well my family contributes more in a year than you see in a lifetime to various global projects for the betterment of peoples. So when you step up and start giving of yourself then you can where to go and how to get there, until then your words mean little to me.

Wickabee
08-21-2012, 04:24 PM
I may complain a lot but I also put my money where my mouth is. I support a lot of charities and community actions to help improve the lives of those less fortunate. As well my family contributes more in a year than you see in a lifetime to various global projects for the betterment of peoples. So when you step up and start giving of yourself then you can where to go and how to get there, until then your words mean little to me.

Don't bother. Some people believe that "not the worst" equals "as good as it needs to be"

These sort of people are against progress of any kind and wish it was 1954 all the time.

angel0430
08-21-2012, 04:34 PM
I may complain a lot but I also put my money where my mouth is. I support a lot of charities and community actions to help improve the lives of those less fortunate. As well my family contributes more in a year than you see in a lifetime to various global projects for the betterment of peoples. So when you step up and start giving of yourself then you can where to go and how to get there, until then your words mean little to me.

Well, just for your information. I have been serving in the Air Force for the past 6 years. I have been to Iraq and I am deploying again in October. I have sacrificed a lot so people like you do not have to do it. I love what I do and I do it with all my heart and passion. I donate money and time to wounded warriors project, schools and any other charity that I can help with.

angel0430
08-21-2012, 04:35 PM
Its nice to know you think scf rules do not apply to you.

Tell me which rule did I broke? If you think I broke any rule, feel free to report my post.

Wickabee
08-21-2012, 04:38 PM
Well, just for your information. I have been serving in the Air Force for the past 6 years. I have been to Iraq and I am deploying again in October. I have sacrificed a lot so people like you do not have to do it. I love what I do and I do it with all my heart and passion. I donate money and time to wounded warriors project, schools and any other charity that I can help with.

Serious question:
Do you think that thing being worse elsewhere means people shouldn't try to better things over here?

angel0430
08-21-2012, 04:45 PM
Serious question:
Do you think that thing being worse elsewhere means people shouldn't try to better things over here?

I am not saying that by any means. But most of the time we focused on things that really don't matter at the moment. We are living in a society, in here, that evewrything is a big deal when we have more serious stuff to worry about. I know this is not the perfect country or place by any means but we still have liberties that we will not have in other places.

Wickabee
08-21-2012, 05:05 PM
I am not saying that by any means. But most of the time we focused on things that really don't matter at the moment. We are living in a society, in here, that evewrything is a big deal when we have more serious stuff to worry about. I know this is not the perfect country or place by any means but we still have liberties that we will not have in other places.

That valid. I have to wonder though what "matters" and what doesn't and who decides that.
Right now we have the gay marriage debate. The argument that it's worse elsewhere so stop whining comes up a lot. They say gay marriage doesn't matter "right now" and we have more important things to worry about.

More important than an entire group being denied the same rights everyone else has (that being the right to marry the person you love and be treated as a spouse instead of a "friend" with no rights). What's more important than that? The economy, maybe, but your nation was founded on the ideal that everyone is equal and has, in its history, has continually updated to reflect that. It's what you fight for, it's why you've been to Iraq. You say it doesn't matter, I say it seems you're fighting to protect the rights of everyone but Americans. You're in Iraq and Afghanistan fighting the people who are oppressing those over there, and then saying people over here who feel oppressed "don't matter enough right now". You're fighting for rights and democracy overseas, but what's going on over here? Gays have less rights, voter ID laws are being set up to purposely undermine democracy at its core* and none of this matters?

Please don't think I'm attacking or anything, I'm trying to get a point across and understand yours at the same time.

* - I didn't think they were either, until I saw this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BovRXWemws

ensbergcollector
08-21-2012, 05:26 PM
i like how we cannot have a thread about an islamic country without it becoming a thread about america and christianity.

shrewsbury
08-21-2012, 05:28 PM
Help me out here. Are you telling me to shut up or change my beliefs? Disagreeing with you does not mean I'm on the attack. You know better than that, shrew. Or is this what you pull out when you know you're wrong? I notice you never have much to say after accusing someone of attacking when in reality all they did was make a point you can't argue against.


wickabee, you give yourself WAY too much credit, there is a difference than not wanting to deal with someone who just wants to argue than you being right. maybe in your hread you have control, but you have stated nothing here that makes me think you are right and i am wrong.


I'm not saying you're any worse than you were yesterday. I'm saying you're worse than you could be today.


I see what you are saying, but do not agree. I think everything is always changing and it should be improving. there should always be room for improvement because no one can be perfect.


but i will say I do appreciate we can argue and have different thoughts without us name calling, atleast we have something going for us!!!

Wickabee
08-21-2012, 05:59 PM
wickabee, you give yourself WAY too much credit, there is a difference than not wanting to deal with someone who just wants to argue than you being right.
So now you're telling me that I don't believe the things I say but I just argue to argue?


maybe in your hread you have control, but you have stated nothing here that makes me think you are right and i am wrong.
If you say so, the fact of the matter is I made a point (the door) and you took it off in a completely different direction (what is the door, which was completely irrelevant) and then accused me of being "on the attack" and arguing for the same of arguing. Both those accusations are false. It's not my fault you didn't see the point that was clearly stated twice. Trying to get you to see my point is not an attack. It's not arguing for the sake of arguing. It's putting my point across to someone who can't or won't even try to see the point.
In other words, it's how adults converse. Children deliberately go away from the point (the door might be gay marriage"...please). Children make false accusations. Adults read with thought and at least attempt to understand what's being said.
Again, making a point is NOT an attack. Frankly, your accusations are insulting.




I see what you are saying, but do not agree. I think everything is always changing and it should be improving. there should always be room for improvement because no one can be perfect.
This I don't understand. Obviously nothing is ever going to be perfect, but because of that we shouldn't strive for perfection, or at least as close as we can get? We can't strive for perfection because we have to leave room for improvement? That makes no sense.



but i will say I do appreciate we can argue and have different thoughts without us name calling, atleast we have something going for us!!!

Normally, I agree. However, in this instance, I do feel insulted by the lack of real thought you seem to put into reading my posts. This is not an attack, nor is it arguing for the sake of arguing, it's genuinely how I feel. You try to paint me as disagreeable when, in reality, I'm just putting forth my thoughts, as is everyone. Because I disagree with you and you don't seem to understand what I'm saying, you call me argumentative and say I'm on the attack. I hope you can see how that makes me not want to continue with this to a degree.

Dunndeal
08-21-2012, 06:15 PM
"IN THE CASE OF GAYS
American is closer to abusing them than, say, Canada. Gays have more rights in Canada than in America."
Seems to me they have all kinds of rights in the GOOD ol USA. Like moving. And as for you loving not living here I do agree with you on that one. I'm sure many here love it also. I really don't care aboat what Canada does,I love not living there. How about that,eh!!

Wickabee
08-21-2012, 06:35 PM
"IN THE CASE OF GAYS
American is closer to abusing them than, say, Canada. Gays have more rights in Canada than in America."
Seems to me they have all kinds of rights in the GOOD ol USA. Like moving.
Where did I say they have no rights? Or do you think gays can't move in Canada? (hint: they can)

So with that in mind, I have to ask what is your point?


And as for you loving not living here I do agree with you on that one. I'm sure many here love it also.
I'm sure many Americans love the US. In fact I'd venture to guess more Americans love living in the US than Canadians even exist.

Again, you leave me wondering, what is your point?


I really don't care aboat what Canada does,I love not living there. How about that,eh!!
1 - If you're trying to be insulting, the stereotype is that we say "aboot" not "aboat" If you're not trying to be insulting, I hope that was a typo (but with the 'a' being so far away from the 'u'...)

2 - You must hate living in the US to have to point out that you love not living in other places just to make yourself feel better. Also, is that "eh!!" supposed to mean something? Am I supposed to be insulted? If so, try harder.

3 - Nowehre in your entire post do I see anything that even comes close to a point. I see attempted insults based on Nationality. I see attempts at insulting Canada (by the way, I wasn`t insulting America when I said I love living in Canada, unless you think it`s an insult to enjoy life anywhere else on Earth), but I see absolutely no point. The insults I could forgive, had they come from somewhere that wasn`t an SCTV sketch.

Dunndeal
08-21-2012, 06:58 PM
"Or do you think gays can't move in Canada? (hint: they can)" And that was my point. They can move to Canada.
I just think you need to shut your mouth when it comes to America. Most if all Americans don't care what Canada does,its your country. If you want men with men thats cool with me. Its really none of your business what goes on here. I know this thread is not about(And yes I meant to spell "aboat",thanks for the correction) my point here but have read some of your other comments about the USA.

Wickabee
08-21-2012, 07:52 PM
"Or do you think gays can't move in Canada? (hint: they can)" And that was my point. They can move to Canada.
So you're saying if gays don't like it they should move? What happens when marriage equality finally passes. Will you move?


I just think you need to shut your mouth when it comes to America.
Why, exactly?


Most if all Americans don't care what Canada does,its your country. If you want men with men thats cool with me.
Thank you for the permission. To be clear, I don't want it, but I'm glad we aren't denying rights based on thinking it's icky, which it kind of is, but I'm an adult so I can deal with it. I guess you can't?


Its really none of your business what goes on here.
This is where you couldn't be more wrong. Our two nations are so intertwined on economic and social levels that what goes on in America does directly affect me.


I know this thread is not about
So why derail the thread with this garbage?


(And yes I meant to spell "aboat",thanks for the correction)
No problem. I figure if you're going to throw insults around, you should at least get your bigotry correct. Otherwise you just look foolish.


my point here but have read some of your other comments about the USA.
What comments?

I think the problem here is that you truly believe you know what I think about America. From 3 posts in this thread, I can see you haven't the slightest idea of my thoughts on America, which is odd, because I've always been open about them. You say you've read "other posts" of mine. I'm guessing you read maybe two and only half of each one.

Edited to add:
By the way, if you want to talk about shutting one's mouth, try not to repeat jokes about Canada you heard in 1983. I find it offensive, not as a Canadian, but as someone who appreciates comedy. I feel like you're going to start calling me "Hoser" and telling me I live in an igloo.

duwal
08-21-2012, 09:19 PM
You guys are a bunch of cry babies and you all you do is complain. If you do not like in here, move to another country and let me know how that goes.

exactly, some people on here are just trying to find ways to make America sound bad, trying to pretend that the economy is still bad, that the entire population has fallen on hard times. Not true at all, we ALL are on our work or personal computers on this site reading about the boxes and cases of trading cards people are buying up each day yet somehow America is going to turn into some kind of doomsday debacle soon unless things get changed. Things are good, for most they are better than good. Still might not be as good as it once was at the peak of the economy back in around 1999-2003 but people that think there is something terribly wrong with how the U.S. is today really need to take a long look at how good they currently have it in the U.S.

duwal
08-21-2012, 09:21 PM
Tell me which rule did I broke? If you think I broke any rule, feel free to report my post.

probably nothing as bad as his saying that his family contributes more money in a year than you're going to see in your lifetime. That was a big cheapshot

duwal
08-21-2012, 09:25 PM
"Or do you think gays can't move in Canada? (hint: they can)" And that was my point. They can move to Canada.
I just think you need to shut your mouth when it comes to America. Most if all Americans don't care what Canada does,its your country. If you want men with men thats cool with me. Its really none of your business what goes on here. I know this thread is not about(And yes I meant to spell "aboat",thanks for the correction) my point here but have read some of your other comments about the USA.


our Canadian members on this board have just as much right to comment about the status and issues in the U.S. as we do. And to say Americans don't care what Canada does is totally offbase

boba
08-21-2012, 09:56 PM
exactly, some people on here are just trying to find ways to make America sound bad, trying to pretend that the economy is still bad, that the entire population has fallen on hard times. Not true at all, we ALL are on our work or personal computers on this site reading about the boxes and cases of trading cards people are buying up each day yet somehow America is going to turn into some kind of doomsday debacle soon unless things get changed. Things are good, for most they are better than good. Still might not be as good as it once was at the peak of the economy back in around 1999-2003 but people that think there is something terribly wrong with how the U.S. is today really need to take a long look at how good they currently have it in the U.S.

Great post, it deserves some

CHURCH :love0030::love0030::love0030:

theonedru
08-21-2012, 10:05 PM
exactly, some people on here are just trying to find ways to make America sound bad, trying to pretend that the economy is still bad, that the entire population has fallen on hard times. Not true at all, we ALL are on our work or personal computers on this site reading about the boxes and cases of trading cards people are buying up each day yet somehow America is going to turn into some kind of doomsday debacle soon unless things get changed. Things are good, for most they are better than good. Still might not be as good as it once was at the peak of the economy back in around 1999-2003 but people that think there is something terribly wrong with how the U.S. is today really need to take a long look at how good they currently have it in the U.S.

Unfortunately people think we still have the same economy now as we did then, this is shown all across the country in any town or city with mass debt yet they are spending money like they have some unlimited source of it. Its not that we have it good, its that they hand out credit like its going out of style just causing more debt. The good life we have in the USA right now it just a myth.