PDA

View Full Version : Atheist Summer Camp is heaven on earth for non believers



mrveggieman
08-24-2012, 03:16 PM
Now before ya'll come down on me I'm just repeating the title. Also what is the deal with this? The parents of these kids don't believe in God. I support, defend and respect your decision to be an atheist. However aren't you doing the same thing that you complain about theists doing? You complain about theist indoctrinating their kids into religion and you turn around and try to indoctrinate your kids into atheism. Let your kids grow and learn. When they become adults let them have a brain of their own and chose the religion (or atheism) that they want to follow.

http://news.yahoo.com/atheist-summer-camp-heaven-earth-nonbelievers-190240069--abc-news-topstories.html

habsheaven
08-24-2012, 03:27 PM
From the description of the camp in the article, it sounds like it is all about growing, thinking and learning. Sounds like Heaven on Earth to me too.

mrveggieman
08-24-2012, 03:29 PM
From the description of the camp in the article, it sounds like it is all about growing, thinking and learning. Sounds like Heaven on Earth to me too.

I have no legal issues with this my only qualm is that this is clearly done to compete with other "religions". My question is if atheism is not a religion why do some atheists want to act like it is?

Wickabee
08-24-2012, 03:33 PM
I have no legal issues with this my only qualm is that this is clearly done to compete with other "religions". My question is if atheism is not a religion why do some atheists want to act like it is?

I find the majority treat it like a religion. Bill Maher is their leader.

habsheaven
08-24-2012, 03:33 PM
I have no legal issues with this my only qualm is that this is clearly done to compete with other "religions". My question is if atheism is not a religion why do some atheists want to act like it is?

It is not competing with religion. Religions REQUIRE you to FOLLOW their teachings. Atheism doesn't require anything from anyone. Atheism PROMOTES free-thinking. It PROMOTES believing what you want to believe based on YOUR OWN conclusions.

Wickabee
08-24-2012, 03:35 PM
It is not competing with religion. Religions REQUIRE you to FOLLOW their teachings. Atheism doesn't require anything from anyone. Atheism PROMOTES free-thinking. It PROMOTES believing what you want to believe based on YOUR OWN conclusions.

As long as that conclusion is "there is no God"

Note: I'm not talking about atheism itself, but rather the seeming majority of atheists.

mrveggieman
08-24-2012, 03:37 PM
It is not competing with religion. Religions REQUIRE you to FOLLOW their teachings. Atheism doesn't require anything from anyone. Atheism PROMOTES free-thinking. It PROMOTES believing what you want to believe based on YOUR OWN conclusions.


That's all fine and dandy but some atheists (not you per se but I do know of some who are just as pushy as christians) will read you the riot act if you tell them that you are converting to a religion from atheism. That is no different that a christian telling you that you will go to hell for not believing. I'm not sure how that is free thinking.

habsheaven
08-24-2012, 03:41 PM
As long as that conclusion is "there is no God"

Note: I'm not talking about atheism itself, but rather the seeming majority of atheists.

Well if your free-thinking arrives at a conclusion that there is a God. You are no longer an atheist. That afterall, is the definition of atheism.

habsheaven
08-24-2012, 03:43 PM
That's all fine and dandy but some atheists (not you per se but I do know of some who are just as pushy as christians) will read you the riot act if you tell them that you are converting to a religion from atheism. That is no different that a christian telling you that you will go to hell for not believing. I'm not sure how that is free thinking.

Anyone can push their opinion, that doesn't make them a religion.

mrveggieman
08-24-2012, 03:47 PM
Well if your free-thinking arrives at a conclusion that there is a God. You are no longer an atheist. That afterall, is the definition of atheism.

So it is not really about free thinking because you only have the freedom to come up with one conclusion. Wow you atheists are becoming just as bad as conservative christians. :sign0020:

JustAlex
08-24-2012, 04:32 PM
From the description of the camp in the article, it sounds like it is all about growing, thinking and learning. Sounds like Heaven on Earth to me too.
BINGO!

Also, LOL @ This:

"We would encourage them to read, to go to church," said Chuck Wolber, one of Camp Quest Northwest's founders. "The best way to become an atheist is to study the Bible, and I definitely recommend the kids do that."

Wickabee
08-24-2012, 04:32 PM
Well if your free-thinking arrives at a conclusion that there is a God. You are no longer an atheist. That afterall, is the definition of atheism.

What I'm saying is they're all for free thought as long as the end result of free thought is that there's no God.
Otherwise, most will tell you how stupid you are for believing there is a God.

JustAlex
08-24-2012, 04:37 PM
I find the majority treat it like a religion. Bill Maher is their leader.
LOL NO.

What we do is we have social gatherings and we want to grow!

The only way to do that is to become united.

In the past, atheist refused to act in this manner BECAUSE they thought this was a religious way of thinking.

IT IS NOT!

We don't worship anyone or anything, we deeply respect science but even that we are usually skeptical of it.

As for our leader.......LOL, Bill Maher is too dumb to be in that position, I would personally elect Richard Dawkins.

But then again, we don't think of atheism in that way, so there are no official leaders.

Wickabee
08-24-2012, 04:43 PM
LOL NO.

What we do is we have social gatherings and we want to grow!

The only way to do that is to become united.

In the past, atheist refused to act in this manner BECAUSE they thought this was a religious way of thinking.
I have no problem with gathering. Exchange of ideas in a gathering is a great thing. It's the one aspect of religion I actually like.


IT IS NOT!
I know. I never said it was.


We don't worship anyone or anything, we deeply respect science but even that we are usually skeptical of it.
That's great, but you've missed my point. Many (note: NOT all) atheists treat it as a religion by "spreading the word" in the same manner as religions do. They also tend to belittle believers of God, usually right after telling you how one of the bad things of religion is that they think they are right and belittle those who are atheists...think about that for a second.


As for our leader.......LOL, Bill Maher is too dumb to be in that position, I would personally elect Richard Dawkins.
Hold an election. I guarantee you Maher gets more votes.
I'm really joking about Maher. He just speaks out against belief in God a LOT and has the forum to do it on a large scale.


But then again, we don't think of atheism in that way, so there are no official leaders.
I get that, sort of. In the end, I think atheism will be a religion as any other. It's not yet, but if you look, you guys are starting to organize and grow faster than ever. I wonder what the goal of it all is. Are atheists, as a group not individually, looking to ban religion? I really think it will be funny when (not if) they do, as banning religion would serve to fulfill part of the prophecy of Revelations. After that, the only real step is Armageddon.

JustAlex
08-24-2012, 05:10 PM
I have no problem with gathering. Exchange of ideas in a gathering is a great thing. It's the one aspect of religion I actually like.

The only thing I like from religion is the social community they have where people can meet and enjoy each other's company, the problem is their ideas are not good because it is dogmatic, there is no room to challenge the bible.....atheist on the other hand challenge everything.

I know. I never said it was.


That's great, but you've missed my point. Many (note: NOT all) atheists treat it as a religion by "spreading the word" in the same manner as religions do. They also tend to belittle believers of God, usually right after telling you how one of the bad things of religion is that they think they are right and belittle those who are atheists...think about that for a second.

But doesn't EVERY organization spread their word? Does that make every organization or idea religious in nature?

Hold an election. I guarantee you Maher gets more votes.
I'm really joking about Maher. He just speaks out against belief in God a LOT and has the forum to do it on a large scale.

Don't get me wrong, I like Maher, and I liked "Religulous", he's good at discussing politics, but not that great at discussing science.

I get that, sort of. In the end, I think atheism will be a religion as any other. It's not yet, but if you look, you guys are starting to organize and grow faster than ever. I wonder what the goal of it all is. Are atheists, as a group not individually, looking to ban religion? I really think it will be funny when (not if) they do, as banning religion would serve to fulfill part of the prophecy of Revelations. After that, the only real step is Armageddon.

The Goal?

I don't think there is an official goal, but personally I would like to live in a country where you don't have to be christian to be president, where thinking logically and rationally isn't frowned upon.

Most atheists are NOT looking to ban religion, why?

Because that conflicts with the belief of freedom of speech, even though most atheists are indeed anti-religion, there are other priorities, and the way we "defeat" religion is to educate and make people think.

Responses in bold.

habsheaven
08-24-2012, 05:11 PM
Anyone that calls atheism a religion has no idea what religion really is. Just because a philosophy deals with God does not make it a religion. Proponents of this philosophy may act like proponents of religion but that hardly makes it a religion.

Up here in Canada some will say hockey is a religion. Afterall, we have been known to belittle believers of other teams. Occasionally it grows to a hatred of players on other teams. That doesn't make it a religion just because the people involved partake in similar actions.

You are comparing apples and oranges just because they are both round.

shrewsbury
08-24-2012, 05:19 PM
so is religion only an act of following set rules? for something to be considered a religion, does it require a mass of people to follow these same rules? can someone who follows these rules still not research other things or must they only live to abide by these universal rules?

is religion someone having faith in something that cannot be proven?

i'm confused and thinking perhaps i am not religious even though i thought i kind of was!

habsheaven
08-24-2012, 05:29 PM
You sound confused. We all know what being religious means and there are many forms of it. Atheism cannot be a religion for the simple fact that atheists are not religious. Therefore they cannot be part of a religion.

JustAlex
08-24-2012, 05:57 PM
Ok, let's put an end to this:

Religion: a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects.

By this definition, atheist CAN NOT be a religion since they are by their own admission Skeptical and freethinkers.

There is NO Dogma, there is no worshiping.

Wickabee
08-24-2012, 06:13 PM
so is religion only an act of following set rules? for something to be considered a religion, does it require a mass of people to follow these same rules? can someone who follows these rules still not research other things or must they only live to abide by these universal rules?

is religion someone having faith in something that cannot be proven?

i'm confused and thinking perhaps i am not religious even though i thought i kind of was!

If I recall correctly, you believe in Jesus and God and follow Jesus' teachings as well as other in the Bible, but you do not subscribe to any specific religion's set of beliefs.

If this is correct, you are not religious. You are spiritual.

Wickabee
08-24-2012, 06:15 PM
Anyone that calls atheism a religion has no idea what religion really is. Just because a philosophy deals with God does not make it a religion. Proponents of this philosophy may act like proponents of religion but that hardly makes it a religion.
That's all I'm saying, they act like it's a religion but say, quite correctly let me add, that it's not.
One day, I think it will be comparable to any religion and completely indistinguishable. But it still won't be an actual religion until someone tries to declare it as such for tax reasons.

drtom2005
08-25-2012, 08:37 PM
What I'm saying is they're all for free thought as long as the end result of free thought is that there's no God.
Otherwise, most will tell you how stupid you are for believing there is a God.

Most atheists use that statement to shut down conversations. Frankly, if /when I have kids they want to be religous, I'm fine with it as long as they do not hurt other people and use their brains about decisions.

I would want to them to be free thinkers and if they want to believe in a god, fine.

By the way, I do think there are atheist around that group think. I do not like them. They are really active on the net. I am against any type of group thinking.

Star_Cards
08-28-2012, 09:11 AM
As an atheist I don't get this. Wouldn't any camp that doesn't discuss religion work? Are they treating atheism as some sort of counter organization to religion? Part of the turn off, for me at least, if the organization of religion these days. Seems like organized atheism could be just as annoying.

Star_Cards
08-28-2012, 09:16 AM
I find the majority treat it like a religion. Bill Maher is their leader.

I don't. It's what I believe but I'm not invested in it like most people are religion. I'm sure there are some that treat it like a religion which seems a little odd to me. The biggest issue I have with religion is that a lot of times people try to push a specific religious belief into legislation. If atheism would ever do the same thing it wouldn't be right... and yes there is a difference between atheist belief and the lack of religious belief present within government.

Star_Cards
08-28-2012, 09:20 AM
That's all fine and dandy but some atheists (not you per se but I do know of some who are just as pushy as christians) will read you the riot act if you tell them that you are converting to a religion from atheism. That is no different that a christian telling you that you will go to hell for not believing. I'm not sure how that is free thinking.

I'm curious how many atheist do you know? I honestly don't know that many. More of the people I know are agnostic and not atheist. While I'm sure there are atheists that will do that if someone happens to want to convert to a religion at some point, I (an atheist) simply doesn't care. It's up to the individual and if I don't want someone else's beliefs forced on someone that doesn't believe the same way then I don;t expect my atheist beliefs to be either.

Star_Cards
08-28-2012, 09:23 AM
LOL NO.

What we do is we have social gatherings and we want to grow!

The only way to do that is to become united.

In the past, atheist refused to act in this manner BECAUSE they thought this was a religious way of thinking.

IT IS NOT!

We don't worship anyone or anything, we deeply respect science but even that we are usually skeptical of it.

As for our leader.......LOL, Bill Maher is too dumb to be in that position, I would personally elect Richard Dawkins.

But then again, we don't think of atheism in that way, so there are no official leaders.

I personally have no desire to gather with other atheist and discuss atheism. Sure I like debating and discussing religious beliefs but I'd never join an atheist organization.

JustAlex
08-28-2012, 09:45 AM
I personally have no desire to gather with other atheist and discuss atheism. Sure I like debating and discussing religious beliefs but I'd never join an atheist organization.
I want to elaborate a little more on what I previously said.

You see, humans love being social and they crave companionship. This is what attracts many people to church....it offers people a place to gather and share each other's company.

If we simply look at like that, it's pretty harmless the danger arrives in the dogmatic ideaology that is presented where people are forced to obey.

Do you know why there are so many "closet atheists" in America?

The same reason why there are so many "closet gays". The majority doesn't like people who think and act differently then them. It's an unfortunate result of human behavior.

So how do we combat this?

We normalize it.

Just as gays have tried very hard in the past decades to normalize homosexuality, there are various atheist organizations doing the same.

Atheism is in fact growing rapidly in the U.S......but this does not mean atheist want to replace Christianity with an atheistic "religion".

That doesn't even make sense!

Atheism is the disbelief of god, there are no rules, no practices, no rituals, no dogma, no worshipping.

To say atheism is a religion is to say that "not collecting stamps" is a hobby.

Star_Cards
08-28-2012, 10:15 AM
I want to elaborate a little more on what I previously said.

You see, humans love being social and they crave companionship. This is what attracts many people to church....it offers people a place to gather and share each other's company.

If we simply look at like that, it's pretty harmless the danger arrives in the dogmatic ideaology that is presented where people are forced to obey.

Do you know why there are so many "closet atheists" in America?

The same reason why there are so many "closet gays". The majority doesn't like people who think and act differently then them. It's an unfortunate result of human behavior.

So how do we combat this?

We normalize it.

Just as gays have tried very hard in the past decades to normalize homosexuality, there are various atheist organizations doing the same.

Atheism is in fact growing rapidly in the U.S......but this does not mean atheist want to replace Christianity with an atheistic "religion".

That doesn't even make sense!

Atheism is the disbelief of god, there are no rules, no practices, no rituals, no dogma, no worshipping.

To say atheism is a religion is to say that "not collecting stamps" is a hobby.

I can see your point and it makes sense. An organized atheist get together just wouldn't be for me. Now, if they had a softball league, I'd be there in a jiffy for that.

mrveggieman
08-28-2012, 11:16 AM
I'm curious how many atheist do you know? I honestly don't know that many. More of the people I know are agnostic and not atheist. While I'm sure there are atheists that will do that if someone happens to want to convert to a religion at some point, I (an atheist) simply doesn't care. It's up to the individual and if I don't want someone else's beliefs forced on someone that doesn't believe the same way then I don;t expect my atheist beliefs to be either.

I knew a guy I used to work with several years ago who said he was an aethist but as far as someone that I see every day none. I was referring to different websites, including facebook where I was discussing a non religious topic in an atheist chat room (yes I went there because they have some interesting viewpoints) and I slipped up and mentioned praying for someone. That was just like cursing their mother. They all ganged up attacked me like a pack of wolves but I took it and smiled. Their leader even tried his best to deconvert me. That made no sense to me. None of us on here that I know of believe that mickey mouse is lord, walked on water, turned water into wine and was sent here by God. (If you do this does not apply to you) However if someone did we may scratch out heads but none of us (except for some of the hardcore christians) will go off on this person and try to convert/deconvert them. It just trips me out that SOME but not all atheists try to turn their aethism into their own personal religion. It makes me think that they really do want to find God but they just don't know how.

Star_Cards
08-28-2012, 11:42 AM
I knew a guy I used to work with several years ago who said he was an aethist but as far as someone that I see every day none. I was referring to different websites, including facebook where I was discussing a non religious topic in an atheist chat room (yes I went there because they have some interesting viewpoints) and I slipped up and mentioned praying for someone. That was just like cursing their mother. They all ganged up attacked me like a pack of wolves but I took it and smiled. Their leader even tried his best to deconvert me. That made no sense to me. None of us on here that I know of believe that mickey mouse is lord, walked on water, turned water into wine and was sent here by God. (If you do this does not apply to you) However if someone did we may scratch out heads but none of us (except for some of the hardcore christians) will go off on this person and try to convert/deconvert them. It just trips me out that SOME but not all atheists try to turn their aethism into their own personal religion. It makes me think that they really do want to find God but they just don't know how.

That's unfortunate. People like that are no better than the people who try to get people to convert to their religion by bullying them. I personally like the difference in thoughts and opinions. It makes you think more than just a bunch of people sitting around agreeing about everything. There's no potential for growth in that environment.

I find atheist groups a bit odd as well to some degree and would probably never join one. I think it mainly may be a reaction to all of the religious organization out there and that some atheist feel the need to organize so their voice can be heard as well. I guess form that perspective I can see a need. I doubt that they are doing it because they want to find a god.

tutall
08-28-2012, 05:40 PM
Most atheists use that statement to shut down conversations. Frankly, if /when I have kids they want to be religous, I'm fine with it as long as they do not hurt other people and use their brains about decisions.

I would want to them to be free thinkers and if they want to believe in a god, fine.

By the way, I do think there are atheist around that group think. I do not like them. They are really active on the net. I am against any type of group thinking.

The funny thing is though the same active fringe of the group is just like the religious fanatics that give religion as bad name also. Dont get me wrong, if someone asks me about my beliefs I will tell them but very few christians actually try to force their beliefs on someone... They just tend to be the louder minority

JustAlex
08-28-2012, 08:25 PM
The funny thing is though the same active fringe of the group is just like the religious fanatics that give religion as bad name also. Dont get me wrong, if someone asks me about my beliefs I will tell them but very few christians actually try to force their beliefs on someone... They just tend to be the louder minority
I disagree.

It clearly states in the bible to go out and preach the "good word".

The main purpose of ANY religion is to grow and to convert others.

After all, if you don't convert and grow, the religion dies.

This is why christian parents force their kids into believing what they believe.

tutall
08-28-2012, 10:40 PM
I disagree.

It clearly states in the bible to go out and preach the "good word".

The main purpose of ANY religion is to grow and to convert others.

After all, if you don't convert and grow, the religion dies.

This is why christian parents force their kids into believing what they believe.

Not all Christian Parents force it on kids... My parents let me make a choice on whether I wanted to go to church or not... When my son gets old enough to make his choice it is his choice also. In my opinion the preaching you speak of in the bible is more through actions than words... I for instance hold myself to a very high standard and make sure I dont do anything in day to day life that could jeopardize my image. I think what the bible is telling us is to live like that and set the example for everyone to live by.

Tivo32
08-29-2012, 01:09 AM
This is why christian parents force their kids into believing what they believe.

My experience wasn't like that at all. I grew up in a Christian household and never felt like my parents were forcing me into believing anything.

habsheaven
08-29-2012, 09:54 AM
My experience wasn't like that at all. I grew up in a Christian household and never felt like my parents were forcing me into believing anything.

I was "forced" to go to Sunday school for a year or two, and "forced" to attend Confirmation at the age of 12. That being said, I didn't look at it any differently than being "forced" to go to school or "forced" to do chores. It was just part of growing up. All the while I never felt "forced" to believe. If anything I was encouraged to challenge what I was told.