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View Full Version : Ex Texas female teacher gets 5 years for consenual sex with 18 year old male students



mrveggieman
08-28-2012, 08:21 AM
To be honest I think this is a little excessive. Yes it was a conflict of intrest and yes should should be fired and banned from teaching but I don't think that she should be branded as a sex offender for having consenual sex with other adults. And now her kids have to grow up without a mother because of a simple err in judgement. What do you think?

http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/ex-teacher-gets-5ex-teacher-gets-5-1501495.html (http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/ex-teacher-gets-5ex-teacher-gets-5-1501495.html)

Star_Cards
08-28-2012, 09:01 AM
I read this story last week and I was very confused. I definitely get how he employers would be unhappy about this and that it would cause her to lose her job and her career moving forward. However, from what I read all of the students say it was consensual and none have complained about being raped or sexually harassed. They were all over the age of consent when any contact happened. I get that it's an inappropriate relationship but am baffled as to why this is a felony.

mrveggieman
08-28-2012, 09:06 AM
I read this story last week and I was very confused. I definitely get how he employers would be unhappy about this and that it would cause her to lose her job and her career moving forward. However, from what I read all of the students say it was consensual and none have complained about being raped or sexually harassed. They were all over the age of consent when any contact happened. I get that it's an inappropriate relationship but am baffled as to why this is a felony.

Yea most school districts consider it a crime for a grade school teacher to have consensual sex with his/her students regardless of their age. Thye look at it like they could influence their students to have consensual sex with them by offering them better grades or other inducements. It's kind of like the law that says correctional officers cannot have consensual sex with inmates.

habsheaven
08-28-2012, 09:16 AM
It sounds like a case of the law overstepping its boundaries. Yes, the school (just like any other workplace including prisons) should have rules in place to prevent these type of situations, but that shouldn't transfer over to the real world where there are already appropriate laws in place concerning age.

mrveggieman
08-28-2012, 09:29 AM
Shrew are you on this morning?

Star_Cards
08-28-2012, 09:49 AM
Yea most school districts consider it a crime for a grade school teacher to have consensual sex with his/her students regardless of their age. Thye look at it like they could influence their students to have consensual sex with them by offering them better grades or other inducements. It's kind of like the law that says correctional officers cannot have consensual sex with inmates.

I definitely get that it's not allowed and why it's not allowed since the teacher has a perceived power over the students, but 5 years when there was zero issue with it being consensual and all parties being of age of consent seems odd.

I'm not sure why you said grade school. these were high schoolers.

Star_Cards
08-28-2012, 09:58 AM
good point. <br />
<br />
if a boss has an affair with a person directly under them would they be looking at a felony charge? I get that it's a little different given that she was a teacher but how different...

mrveggieman
08-28-2012, 11:03 AM
I definitely get that it's not allowed and why it's not allowed since the teacher has a perceived power over the students, but 5 years when there was zero issue with it being consensual and all parties being of age of consent seems odd.

I'm not sure why you said grade school. these were high schoolers.

High school is 9-12th grade which is technically still grade school. I don't think that this teacher could have been legally prosecuted if these boys were 18 year old college freshmen instead of 18 year old HS seniors.

Wickabee
08-28-2012, 12:03 PM
Shrew are you on this morning?

I had the same thought.

shrewsbury
08-28-2012, 01:30 PM
yeah, i'm here and thanks for asking!!

the issue i have is at 18 the frontal lobe is not fully developed, just like at 17. also she was in an authoritative position.

i know at 18 you are considered an adult and even at 17 you are at the age of consent, but i feel this example and the one i wrote about show how people are taking advantage of others, rather than helping them. and i have a huge issue with young people being taken advantage of.

she made some bad choices she will have to always live with.

Wickabee
08-28-2012, 01:35 PM
yeah, i'm here and thanks for asking!!

the issue i have is at 18 the frontal lobe is not fully developed, just like at 17. also she was in an authoritative position.
That is completely valid.


i know at 18 you are considered an adult and even at 17 you are at the age of consent, but i feel this example and the one i wrote about show how people are taking advantage of others, rather than helping them. and i have a huge issue with young people being taken advantage of.

she made some bad choices she will have to always live with.

At what age do you consider someone an adult then, if not 18?

shrewsbury
08-28-2012, 01:53 PM
wickabee, that is a tricky one. i would consider an adult someone that is fully grown and developed. but i also think there is a gray area when someone should be allowed to be free of the responsibilities of a child but is still not an adult.

you guys know nothing is ever black and white for me, but i think it is logical to see all the things in between, rather than just one side of it.

a child to an adult is a very gray are for me and i believe this is where college can play an important role. you are free from your parents, but still have responsibilities, but not as many as an adult out on their own. i belive this buys someone the time to fully develop and not be stuck with being a kid.

mrveggieman
08-28-2012, 02:03 PM
What about a 30 year old teacher at an adult night school having consensual sex with one of his or her adult students who is over 21? Yes they may be an adult 21+ but it is still considered a conflict of intrests as well as an abuse of power is it not? If you are going to give this woman a scarlet letter for life why should the 30 year old teacher not get a scarlet letter? What about the lonely housewife who lays up with the 18 year old pizza boy? Why not give her a scarlet letter as well?

habsheaven
08-28-2012, 02:27 PM
The law appears to be designed to protect students from being taken advantage of by a person in an authoritative role over them. I doubt similar laws exist with regards to doctors and their patients or bosses and their secretaries. Perhaps the only difference is that these victims can choose to switch doctors or jobs, I don't know?

In this particular case, I don't think anyone was taken advantage of. I also think the only victims are the children of this teacher and her husband.

At the end of the day, it appears to be an injustice in my eyes.

mrveggieman
08-28-2012, 02:32 PM
The law appears to be designed to protect students from being taken advantage of by a person in an authoritative role over them. I doubt similar laws exist with regards to doctors and their patients or bosses and their secretaries. Perhaps the only difference is that these victims can choose to switch doctors or jobs, I don't know?

In this particular case, I don't think anyone was taken advantage of. I also think the only victims are the children of this teacher and her husband.

At the end of the day, it appears to be an injustice in my eyes.

CHURCH!! :love0030::love0030::love0030:

Star_Cards
08-28-2012, 02:47 PM
The law appears to be designed to protect students from being taken advantage of by a person in an authoritative role over them. I doubt similar laws exist with regards to doctors and their patients or bosses and their secretaries. Perhaps the only difference is that these victims can choose to switch doctors or jobs, I don't know?

In this particular case, I don't think anyone was taken advantage of. I also think the only victims are the children of this teacher and her husband.

At the end of the day, it appears to be an injustice in my eyes.

well said. I definitely see the difference between a boss and employee and this student to teacher relationship. I totally agree that the teacher should lose her license to teach and her job, but five years seems way too harsh. I also agree that the only victims of this case seem to be her children and husband.

duane1969
08-28-2012, 02:53 PM
The real kick in the pants...a true sex offender who molest children will often get less time.

shrewsbury
08-28-2012, 03:08 PM
duane, so true and so sad!!!!

i also think the school, the teachers family, and this 18 year old were taken advantage of. she had no intentions of anything positive to be the outcome of this and satisfied her own needs. she taught this 18 year old that it is ok to cheat on your spouse and to lie, this is wrong.

as far as the sentence, i agree with duane.

Wickabee
08-28-2012, 03:10 PM
wickabee, that is a tricky one. i would consider an adult someone that is fully grown and developed. but i also think there is a gray area when someone should be allowed to be free of the responsibilities of a child but is still not an adult.

you guys know nothing is ever black and white for me, but i think it is logical to see all the things in between, rather than just one side of it.

a child to an adult is a very gray are for me and i believe this is where college can play an important role. you are free from your parents, but still have responsibilities, but not as many as an adult out on their own. i belive this buys someone the time to fully develop and not be stuck with being a kid.

1 - How would you write a law based on that?
2 - So because I didn't go to college I'm still a child?

habsheaven
08-28-2012, 03:23 PM
duane, so true and so sad!!!!

i also think the school, the teachers family, and this 18 year old were taken advantage of. she had no intentions of anything positive to be the outcome of this and satisfied her own needs. she taught this 18 year old that it is ok to cheat on your spouse and to lie, this is wrong.

as far as the sentence, i agree with duane.

It was apparently 4 or 5 students and I doubt she taught them anything other than the odd sexual trick. I doubt any of them take from the experience that it is "ok" to cheat. I hardly think any of them were taken advantage of either. I could only dream of a 28 year old woman "taking advantage" of me at 18.

mrveggieman
08-28-2012, 03:47 PM
duane, so true and so sad!!!!

i also think the school, the teachers family, and this 18 year old were taken advantage of. she had no intentions of anything positive to be the outcome of this and satisfied her own needs. she taught this 18 year old that it is ok to cheat on your spouse and to lie, this is wrong.

as far as the sentence, i agree with duane.

I disagree. Most 18 year old guys would kill for the chance to mess around with a married woman then brag to their buddies. I agree it is not the most mature thing to do but you would be hard pressed to find an 18 year old guy who will tell you with a straight face that an older married woman took advantage of them sexually.

shrewsbury
08-28-2012, 06:44 PM
wickabee, where was hat posted?


So because I didn't go to college I'm still a child?

here is what was posted


a child to an adult is a very gray are for me and i believe this is where college can play an important role. you are free from your parents, but still have responsibilities, but not as many as an adult out on their own. i belive this buys someone the time to fully develop and not be stuck with being a kid.

i should have also included the military


veggie, i didn't give anyone a scarlet letter, they gave it to themselves.
also why wouldn't the 30 and 21 year old date, but yes this would be a conflict of interest.

everyone else, should i go about explaining this with morals, or with science, or perhaps both?

I am guessing no one here knows anything about the brain? if not, please do yourself a favor and do some research, or if you would like i can give you a rundown on the brain and how it pertains to this and other situations that everybody seems to think is ok because no laws or broken. (not that i claim to e an expert)

Wickabee
08-28-2012, 07:02 PM
Then you're going to have to explain because I am still reading it the same. I was never in the army, either.

habsheaven
08-28-2012, 07:23 PM
wickabee, where was hat posted?



here is what was posted



i should have also included the military


veggie, i didn't give anyone a scarlet letter, they gave it to themselves.
also why wouldn't the 30 and 21 year old date, but yes this would be a conflict of interest.

everyone else, should i go about explaining this with morals, or with science, or perhaps both?

I am guessing no one here knows anything about the brain? if not, please do yourself a favor and do some research, or if you would like i can give you a rundown on the brain and how it pertains to this and other situations that everybody seems to think is ok because no laws or broken. (not that i claim to e an expert)

Jay, nice condescending post. No one needs to know anything about the brain to know that 18 year old males are not being taken advantage of when the are propositioned to have sex. Shall I explain the hormones of an 18 year old to you?

duwal
08-28-2012, 08:12 PM
I disagree. Most 18 year old guys would kill for the chance to mess around with a married woman then brag to their buddies. I agree it is not the most mature thing to do but you would be hard pressed to find an 18 year old guy who will tell you with a straight face that an older married woman took advantage of them sexually.


agreed, pretty sure most males at that age are hoping for something like that to happen to them, good chance everyone here had that female teacher they would have no problem going to bed with

shrewsbury
08-28-2012, 08:22 PM
habs, how about morals, self respect, control, these are more important than hormones will ever be. but don't get me wrong, i know what you are saying, i was 18 once, long ago.

the issue is not the act of the 18 year old nor the 17 year old. for many reasons, one is simple science. it is proven science, that the frontal lobe does not fully develop until your early 20's. the frontal lobe controls decision making, our ability to make good decisions under stress, and other huge factors that make us "mature". people with under developed or damaged frontal lobe often seek danger and "exciting" sexual behaviors, which more often than not go away when and if the frontal lobe fully develops.

the second is perhaps the most important. the "adult" in these situations have chosen to not only throw out their own personal morals and values, but they have influenced someone else to do the same. i know when it comes to morals it is a personal thing and who is to put their own ideas of what is right on others?
the fact is both sides think it is ok.
people like me who say people should be accountable for their actions and have morals that include being a positive influence on our youth, not a negative one.
then the people who say i have no right to tell others what is moral so i should follow their ideas and morals rather than my own.

i can't do much to change the laws or the people who choose to do things i think are "wrong" morally, but i can keep my own morals and know they are the right thing to do, no matter how many people don't like it.

perhaps it is my age or the fact i have been married a long time and have raised three girls, whatever it is , it is not a bad thing.

wickabee, try as you might no one called you anything. though we may push each others buttons, i have nothing personal against you, in fact, you make me think, which is a good thing.

Wickabee
08-28-2012, 08:37 PM
wickabee, try as you might no one called you anything. though we may push each others buttons, i have nothing personal against you, in fact, you make me think, which is a good thing.

No, I didn't take personal offense, I said "because I didn't graduate" as example, not personal offense. I'm questioning the idea that college or the army is necessary to "becoming an adult" because it's not.
I don't think you meant to suggest that those who did not go to college are still children, but I kind of can't read it any other way.

For the record, I'm not "try"ing anything here. I simply wish to clarify exactly what you meant, because as I read it I vehemently disagree.

shrewsbury
08-28-2012, 08:49 PM
wickabee, you are right they are not needed to become an adult. i stated that college allowed someone to go through that tricky stage of 18-21, when you are an adult, but some are not ready for all that adulthood holds, some, not all. the military can also be a way to get through those years.

how about I go old school alice cooper on you?

from his classic, "18"

"I'm, in the middle,
the middle of life.
I'm a boy and I'm a man.
I'm eighteen,
and I like it"

habsheaven
08-28-2012, 09:49 PM
habs, how about morals, self respect, control, these are more important than hormones will ever be. but don't get me wrong, i know what you are saying, i was 18 once, long ago.

the issue is not the act of the 18 year old nor the 17 year old. for many reasons, one is simple science. it is proven science, that the frontal lobe does not fully develop until your early 20's. the frontal lobe controls decision making, our ability to make good decisions under stress, and other huge factors that make us "mature". people with under developed or damaged frontal lobe often seek danger and "exciting" sexual behaviors, which more often than not go away when and if the frontal lobe fully develops.

the second is perhaps the most important. the "adult" in these situations have chosen to not only throw out their own personal morals and values, but they have influenced someone else to do the same. i know when it comes to morals it is a personal thing and who is to put their own ideas of what is right on others?
the fact is both sides think it is ok.
people like me who say people should be accountable for their actions and have morals that include being a positive influence on our youth, not a negative one.
then the people who say i have no right to tell others what is moral so i should follow their ideas and morals rather than my own.

i can't do much to change the laws or the people who choose to do things i think are "wrong" morally, but i can keep my own morals and know they are the right thing to do, no matter how many people don't like it.

perhaps it is my age or the fact i have been married a long time and have raised three girls, whatever it is , it is not a bad thing.

wickabee, try as you might no one called you anything. though we may push each others buttons, i have nothing personal against you, in fact, you make me think, which is a good thing.

I am not arguing about whether it is right or wrong. I am of the opinion that there shouldn't be a law against what was done and the teacher should not have faced punishment outside of the school or her marriage. This liberal thinks it's none of the government's business. I am also disagreeing with your assertion that the young men were "taken advantage of".

FWIW, I doubt it has anything to do with your age/length of marriage/kids raised. Afterall, I think I am older, been married longer, and raised two girls also.

shrewsbury
08-29-2012, 08:32 AM
habs, glad you are older, makes me feel younger!!

maybe all the juice is helping!!!

Wickabee
08-29-2012, 11:55 AM
Shrew. You got so wrapped up in #2 (and I still don't understand what you were trying to say, exactly, but whatever) that you completely glossed over my first question:

1 - How would you write a law based on that?
2 - So because I didn't go to college I'm still a child?

?