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View Full Version : unemployment, yes again



shrewsbury
09-05-2012, 12:33 AM
so here is yet another way to look at the stats, these stats are for the Bureau of Labor Statistics, so hard for either side to argue. http://data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutputServlet
the main thing obama supporters point out is that the UE rate was spiraling out of control before he came into office, I will give them that.

facts

2002 till 2008 UE rate dropped
2008 to 2010 UE rate went way up.
2011 UE rate starting to dip down

2002 till 2006 republicans controlled both houses (UER dropped)
2007 dems controll senate (UER started to rise)
2009 dems take congress and senate (UER out of control)
2011 republicans took congress back (UER dropping a little)

seems like maybe a pattern?

indexed
09-05-2012, 12:36 AM
all of your facts are correct..............
but no one wants to listen. They refuse to address the fact that while Pelosi and the dems controlled the senate everything went to hell in a hand bag. This started in 06 I believe, its a fact that will never be addressed.

Biggtyme
09-05-2012, 12:54 AM
While you cant argue numbers....We all know why UER went out the window in 08-11 it had to do with greedy business and the perfect storm that exploded in our faces for neglecting to acknowledge it. I honestly believe it would not matter who was in office we turned a blind eye to it as a whole.

habsheaven
09-05-2012, 08:06 AM
so here is yet another way to look at the stats, these stats are for the Bureau of Labor Statistics, so hard for either side to argue. http://data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutputServlet
the main thing obama supporters point out is that the UE rate was spiraling out of control before he came into office, I will give them that.

facts

2002 till 2008 UE rate dropped
2008 to 2010 UE rate went way up.
2011 UE rate starting to dip down

2002 till 2006 republicans controlled both houses (UER dropped)
2007 dems controll senate (UER started to rise)
2009 dems take congress and senate (UER out of control)
2011 republicans took congress back (UER dropping a little)

seems like maybe a pattern?

A pattern that means absolutely nothing. Unless of course you can point to what each Congress did to influence the rate while they were in control. Considering Congress has done nothing your theory is dead.

shrewsbury
09-05-2012, 08:38 AM
how about the republicans instill a sense of balance and real hope to the american people. the more republicans that control the house, senate, and presidency the lower the UER. from 02-07 the UER dropped, when the dems started to control it rose.

AUTaxMan
09-05-2012, 09:20 AM
how about the republicans instill a sense of balance and real hope to the american people. the more republicans that control the house, senate, and presidency the lower the UER. from 02-07 the UER dropped, when the dems started to control it rose.

This is true. Businesses need stability and certainty in order to grow. The Democrats have no plan for the future of this country from a financial perspective, and thus, companies largely continue to sit on cash and not hire. You can't measure risk without some degree certainty of what the tax law and the regulatory climate is going to be in the near future. Nobody is going to take on enormous levels of risk until they are comfortable measuring it.

AUTaxMan
09-05-2012, 09:24 AM
A pattern that means absolutely nothing. Unless of course you can point to what each Congress did to influence the rate while they were in control. Considering Congress has done nothing your theory is dead.

A general theme I am getting from your posts is that Obama inherited a mess so bad that there's nothing he could do about it and that but for the republicans in congress, he would be able to get things going in the right direction by way of passing another jobs/stimulus/spending bill. My question to you is why do you believe that our nation's taking on another $450 billion in debt and doling the money out in the form of tax credits will work, when we have already tried that on a grander scale, and it did not work? If your contention is that prior stimulus legislation did work, can you please explain why and how?

Star_Cards
09-05-2012, 09:37 AM
so here is yet another way to look at the stats, these stats are for the Bureau of Labor Statistics, so hard for either side to argue. http://data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutputServlet
the main thing obama supporters point out is that the UE rate was spiraling out of control before he came into office, I will give them that.

facts

2002 till 2008 UE rate dropped
2008 to 2010 UE rate went way up.
2011 UE rate starting to dip down

2002 till 2006 republicans controlled both houses (UER dropped)
2007 dems controll senate (UER started to rise)
2009 dems take congress and senate (UER out of control)
2011 republicans took congress back (UER dropping a little)

seems like maybe a pattern?

does that pattern actually have to do with control of senate or congress? I'm wondering what things happened during those four time periods that would make the UER go up and down based off of which party had control. I don't know either way so I'm just looking for some reasoning.

Star_Cards
09-05-2012, 09:39 AM
how about the republicans instill a sense of balance and real hope to the american people. the more republicans that control the house, senate, and presidency the lower the UER. from 02-07 the UER dropped, when the dems started to control it rose.

I really don't know, but it seems that hope wouldn't be a major factor in businesses hiring again. I get that certain predictions can cause companies to tighten their purse strings, but would imagine that there would be something more concrete than just a feeling that would cause UERs to go up or down.

Star_Cards
09-05-2012, 09:43 AM
This is true. Businesses need stability and certainty in order to grow. The Democrats have no plan for the future of this country from a financial perspective, and thus, companies largely continue to sit on cash and not hire. You can't measure risk without some degree certainty of what the tax law and the regulatory climate is going to be in the near future. Nobody is going to take on enormous levels of risk until they are comfortable measuring it.

aren't businesses growing a ton lately? I thought i heard that a lot of businesses have record amounts of cash but just aren't spending it in the work force. I know that my company (a pretty large one) have out paced our sales goals over the past three years and we still aren't really hiring outside of a few groups. The departments that I work for and with are working with skeleton crews so to speak. I know for us a lot of it is because we hire lots of freelancers so the company doesn't have to cover benefits and such for those vendors.

AUTaxMan
09-05-2012, 09:48 AM
aren't businesses growing a ton lately? I thought i heard that a lot of businesses have record amounts of cash but just aren't spending it in the work force. I know that my company (a pretty large one) have out paced our sales goals over the past three years and we still aren't really hiring outside of a few groups. The departments that I work for and with are working with skeleton crews so to speak. I know for us a lot of it is because we hire lots of freelancers so the company doesn't have to cover benefits and such for those vendors.

That's the point I was making, although I wouldn't say that they are growing "a ton."

shrewsbury
09-05-2012, 10:32 AM
it seems most business' are uncomfortable spending or hiring while dems are in charge.

cavaliersfan30
09-05-2012, 10:40 AM
because most democrats are not for big business

Star_Cards
09-05-2012, 11:46 AM
I can't really speak to that. I do know that my company had the same hiring philosophy for the most part while the Reps were in charge too. I don't really know how much that really matters as much as...

Star_Cards
09-05-2012, 11:47 AM
because most democrats are not for big business

I'm not really sure how you think this? Do you think democrats want all big business gone?

duwal
09-05-2012, 04:44 PM
so here is yet another way to look at the stats, these stats are for the Bureau of Labor Statistics, so hard for either side to argue. http://data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutputServlet
the main thing obama supporters point out is that the UE rate was spiraling out of control before he came into office, I will give them that.

facts

2002 till 2008 UE rate dropped
2008 to 2010 UE rate went way up.
2011 UE rate starting to dip down

2002 till 2006 republicans controlled both houses (UER dropped)
2007 dems controll senate (UER started to rise)
2009 dems take congress and senate (UER out of control)
2011 republicans took congress back (UER dropping a little)

seems like maybe a pattern?


and the L.A. Dodgers should be blamed for the assassination of President Kennedy because he was killed while they were at the top of MLB

tutall
09-05-2012, 08:10 PM
aren't businesses growing a ton lately? I thought i heard that a lot of businesses have record amounts of cash but just aren't spending it in the work force. I know that my company (a pretty large one) have out paced our sales goals over the past three years and we still aren't really hiring outside of a few groups. The departments that I work for and with are working with skeleton crews so to speak. I know for us a lot of it is because we hire lots of freelancers so the company doesn't have to cover benefits and such for those vendors.

I can only speak from personal experience and not any numbers at this time but I sit with 25-30 high net worth clients per day... anyone from business owners to investors to people who just have a large inheritance. I have had more problems in the last few weeks investing anything because of the simple fact no one knows what will happen. Business owners are not borrowing money for investments and people with money are sitting on the cash. I would say 8/10 people I sit with tell me they are fearful of democrats winning this election and that is why they are staying put... I dont have any real reasons to why I am just relaying what I hear on a daily basis. The people who typically pump up the dems are the people on government benefits looking for a handout... I see plenty of these people also and some are my best customers but they are always looking for ways to cheat the system and think the dems give them a better chance at bigger paychecks and more benefits.

bud7562
09-05-2012, 08:33 PM
I'm not really sure how you think this? Do you think democrats want all big business gone? most of the company are going overseas not much in the us anymore?????

shrewsbury
09-05-2012, 08:48 PM
duwal, were they responsible for his security?

habsheaven
09-05-2012, 09:11 PM
duwal, were they responsible for his security?

A better question; what have the 2011 Republicans done to effect the UE rate?

shrewsbury
09-05-2012, 09:12 PM
habs, you, yourself said it was going down

habsheaven
09-05-2012, 09:42 PM
habs, you, yourself said it was going down

Yes it is going down. What is your point? I asked you what the Republicans have done to make it drop. Have they passed a single bill? What exactly have they done that effected the UE rate?

JustAlex
09-05-2012, 09:44 PM
how about the republicans instill a sense of balance and real hope to the american people. the more republicans that control the house, senate, and presidency the lower the UER. from 02-07 the UER dropped, when the dems started to control it rose.
LOL WOW!

I never thought I would read those words together that way in a sentence...

Wickabee
09-05-2012, 09:50 PM
LOL WOW!

I never thought I would read those words together that way in a sentence...

No kidding, they can't even instill a sense of balance and real hope within the party. What chance do they stand with the entire nation?

shrewsbury
09-05-2012, 09:54 PM
they support business' and cut taxes
why when they are in control, even if just one house, the UER drops?

fighting within the party and economic stability are two separate issues.

Wickabee
09-05-2012, 10:04 PM
they support business' and cut taxes
why when they are in control, even if just one house, the UER drops?

fighting within the party and economic stability are two separate issues.

Let me ask you this. When the RNC shows the party bullying people like Ron Paul, how can they turn around and say they're for the little guy? Ron's the littlest guy I've ever seen and they treated him like a small, smart kid inside a 'nerd circle'

shrewsbury
09-05-2012, 10:52 PM
i see the politicians and the public as two separate things. the politicians have been slowly distancing themselves from us normal folks for a while.

for now all i can worry about is the economy. until the dollar goes back up, UER goes down, taxes are cut, it's hard to focus on other things

Wickabee
09-05-2012, 10:56 PM
And you believe catering to the rich is the way to do it.
If they treat Ron Paul like that, what are they going to do to everyday people they don't even know?

shrewsbury
09-05-2012, 11:30 PM
wickabee, that is the crazy choice i have to make.

cater to the rich, push their morals on others, and talk down to other

or

cater to the poor, strip all my morals away, and still talk down to others.

on another note, just listened to clinton's speach, pretty darn good, didn't agree with all of it, but still a very good job

Wickabee
09-05-2012, 11:47 PM
The man can speak.

JustAlex
09-06-2012, 12:28 AM
wickabee, that is the crazy choice i have to make.

cater to the rich, push their morals on others, and talk down to other

or

cater to the poor, strip all my morals away, and still talk down to others.

Can I ask which morals are being stripped away?

Do you mean abortion and gay marriage?

Because no one's morals are being striped away, if you CHOOSE to be pro-life and not accept gay marriage, that's great, but you can't dictate that to others.

I always use this example:

I personally HATE smoking, I find it disgusting, a terrible habit, and it WILL eventually kill you.

However, I don't push that belief on anyone, as long as I don't do it and it's not being shoved in my face, I say let everyone smoke, drink, and do whatever they want.

I keep my beliefs to myself and I others should do the same.


The GOP are the opposite, they get in your face and DEMAND to you to stop abortion, gay marriage and any other social issue they don't like.

The Dems simply support the right to CHOOSE those options if you like.

Seriously, just think about this, don't you think the latter statement is more preferable?

shrewsbury
09-06-2012, 12:41 AM
the morals i speak of have nothing to do with gays.

i think you should keep score in little league baseball, i think only the winner should get a trophy, i think you should have to work for what you have and not covet what others have. i think you should step up and do what is right, that certainly includes racial discrimination, but also dealing with illegals, drugs, gangs, welfare reform, voting reform, heavier hand with criminals, the death penalty, no rights for prisoners, being able to keep God in songs, poems, and whatever else, and other liberal ideas that i do not agree with

gay marriage for conservatives is a little "shock" at first glance, but once looked at, it is not our priority to stop someone from marriage. but abortion is tricky as it gets