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View Full Version : Judge orders fort hood suspect to be clean shaven



mrveggieman
09-06-2012, 04:15 PM
http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-national/20120906/US.Fort.Hood.Shooting/

INTIMADATOR2007
09-06-2012, 04:37 PM
Quit messing around with this guy and SHOOT him !

mrveggieman
09-06-2012, 05:04 PM
His attorneys have reportedly been offered a plea deal:

http://hosted2.ap.org/txdam/54828a5e8d9d48b7ba8b94ba38a9ef22/Article_2012-09-06-Fort%20Hood%20Shooting/id-fdc35814e0c94e269e5a45aedf4b5530

theonedru
09-06-2012, 05:42 PM
Just let him keep the beard in the name of his faith then convict him and do with as chosen. forcing him to shave the bead will only cause to incense Muslims across America and the globe and we do not need any more of that right now

shrewsbury
09-06-2012, 05:51 PM
i think an individual should have no religious rights when in prison or getting ready to be sent there.

and when you mess with the military that's what you get, no pitty for this idiot.

theonedru
09-06-2012, 06:07 PM
i think an individual should have no religious rights when in prison or getting ready to be sent there.

and when you mess with the military that's what you get, no pitty for this idiot.

You can respect their religion without respecting them...

habsheaven
09-06-2012, 08:08 PM
i think an individual should have no religious rights when in prison or getting ready to be sent there.

and when you mess with the military that's what you get, no pitty for this idiot.

I would really like to know who took over Jay's account? I can't believe a religious person would utter such nonsense. Are prisons in the US not about rehabilitation? You would have no problem with prisons banning prayers?

I'm starting a new anti-church. It's called

TOMATO!!!!!
:scared0012:

shrewsbury
09-06-2012, 11:24 PM
no religious rights, no educational rights, no health rights, no voting rights, no rights to earn an income, no special diet rights, no rights at all, work on a chain gang all day and get fed what you need to live.
if you are not fit to enter society, then you should be executed, and anyone killing people, raping people, or molesting children are on that list.

rehab? maybe for a car thief or drug user, and other prisoners, but no mercy or rights for a murderer, rapist, or child molesters.

habs, i'll take two tomato's for that one, please!!

jaybird_1981
09-06-2012, 11:29 PM
It is a military court and he is still technically in the military therefore the uniform code still applies and that is why he has to be shaven. This is the 6th time he has been held in contempt of court by the way.

theonedru
09-06-2012, 11:40 PM
no religious rights, no educational rights, no health rights, no voting rights, no rights to earn an income, no special diet rights, no rights at all, work on a chain gang all day and get fed what you need to live.
if you are not fit to enter society, then you should be executed, and anyone killing people, raping people, or molesting children are on that list.

rehab? maybe for a car thief or drug user, and other prisoners, but no mercy or rights for a murderer, rapist, or child molesters.

habs, i'll take two tomato's for that one, please!!

How christian of you....

shrewsbury
09-07-2012, 12:54 AM
actually it is very christian like.

JustAlex
09-07-2012, 01:05 AM
How christian of you....
Why are you mocking and belittling his beliefs bro?

Why can't you just respect his thoughts....HUH??

theonedru
09-07-2012, 01:23 AM
Why are you mocking and belittling his beliefs bro?

Why can't you just respect his thoughts....HUH??

I needle Jay a lot and we butt heads more than we agree but I also respect for him. As for you this is a sports card trading site, try trading some cards instead of trolling the P&R forums all the time. Its just a little suspicious when someones does that.

JustAlex
09-07-2012, 01:37 AM
I needle Jay a lot and we butt heads more than we agree but I also respect for him. As for you this is a sports card trading site, try trading some cards instead of trolling the P&R forums all the time. Its just a little suspicious when someones does that.
Oh OK, cool, now I'm a troll for doing the same thing you do to me, constantly....

BTW....you were in fact doing the same thing I always do which is to CRITICIZE other members based on their comments. If I have to criticize based on religion and add my own spin on it then that's what I will do.

If you can't distinguish insult from criticism, that is not my fault.

theonedru
09-07-2012, 01:44 AM
Oh OK, cool, now I'm a troll for doing the same thing you do to me, constantly....

BTW....you were in fact doing the same thing I always do which is to CRITICIZE other members based on their comments. If I have to criticize based on religion and add my own spin on it then that's what I will do.

If you can't distinguish insult from criticism, that is not my fault.

Actually I buy/sell/trade cards here so I am not trolling SCF I am using it for it's intended purpose.

shrewsbury
09-07-2012, 01:56 AM
I think we all know things can get quite heated and taken personally on here, pretty darn quick. some people may be a bit more brash than others, but we are all doing the same thing, expressing our opinions.

i think most know my sore spots, anything to do with children, or the oppression of women, abortion, and now you found another, prisoners so called rights. the idea of a prisoner having any rights, is just ludicrous. this does not mean they should be beaten, well maybe some of them, but this should be the worst experience of their life, so ad, they will never want to do anything to return.

but i do agree that some young punk who ends up in prison for, say, stealing a car, should have the chance to get out and not be judged and given an honest chance, but this can't go on, time and time again.

habsheaven
09-07-2012, 09:06 AM
actually it is very christian like.


Those views you just espoused are the views of Christ? Now I am very confused. Jay, you are quickly becoming "just another typical right-wing christian". Congrats!

shrewsbury
09-07-2012, 09:54 AM
habs, let me explain.

to be a christian YOU have to believe Jesus is the son of God
to be a christian YOU have to believe He died for YOUR sins
to be a christian YOU have to believe He was resurrected
to be a christian YOU have to believe He ascended to Heaven

being a christian is about YOU and YOUR personal responsibilities, YOUR choices, and YOUR decisions, YOUR beliefs, nothing else.

so if YOU make a choice that ends YOU up in prison, it is YOUR fault and YOU should not expect personal freedoms or personal rights. YOU should take responsibility for YOUR actions for taking away the rights of others.

where are the rights of the dead that were murdered by this guy?

prison is not about getting time to reflect on your bad behaviors it is about paying for your crime in such a way that you do not want to do the crime again.

call me all the names you like, but i will never agree to prisoners having rights, it is crazy. a guy that can murder people deserves nothing but to die, his only right is death, and he shouldn't even be able to choose how he dies.

mrveggieman
09-07-2012, 09:57 AM
habs, let me explain.

to be a christian YOU have to believe Jesus is the son of God
to be a christian YOU have to believe He died for YOUR sins
to be a christian YOU have to believe He was resurrected
to be a christian YOU have to believe He ascended to Heaven

being a christian is about YOU and YOUR personal responsibilities, YOUR choices, and YOUR decisions, YOUR beliefs, nothing else.

so if YOU make a choice that ends YOU up in prison, it is YOUR fault and YOU should not expect personal freedoms or personal rights. YOU should take responsibility for YOUR actions for taking away the rights of others.

where are the rights of the dead that were murdered by this guy?

prison is not about getting time to reflect on your bad behaviors it is about paying for your crime in such a way that you do not want to do the crime again.

call me all the names you like, but i will never agree to prisoners having rights, it is crazy. a guy that can murder people deserves nothing but to die, his only right is death, and he shouldn't even be able to choose how he dies.

CHURCH!! :love0030::love0030::love0030:

angel0430
09-07-2012, 09:58 AM
Just let him keep the beard in the name of his faith then convict him and do with as chosen. forcing him to shave the bead will only cause to incense Muslims across America and the globe and we do not need any more of that right now

Reagrdless of his religion preference he is still on Active Duty so he needs to follow the uniform guidelines. Just because he is in jail does not mean that his contract has been cancelled. Good on the judge.

habsheaven
09-07-2012, 10:28 AM
Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell or even that other nutcase Phelps, could have said the exact same thing you just said and veggie just "churched". If that's all it takes to be a christian, I am glad I am not one. Just like every other "christian"; you guys are all about Christ's beliefs UNTIL those beliefs need to be applied to something you detest.

shrewsbury
09-07-2012, 11:16 AM
veggie gave me a church!!!!!! bam!!!!!! that is how to start the weekend!!!!!!

habs. this statement shows

If that's all it takes to be a christian, I am glad I am not one.

you know little about what it takes to be a christian. to truly believe what i posted earlier takes a lifetime obligation, personal sacrifice, and being rejected by many.

we certainly love and forgive, but it does not mean we should allow these things to happen and continue to happen. forgiveness is not about someone getting away with something, but rather your ability to let that hatred go in your life. to allow a rapist to return to the street and rape again is just as bad as the rapist.

habsheaven
09-07-2012, 11:26 AM
veggie gave me a church!!!!!! bam!!!!!! that is how to start the weekend!!!!!!

habs. this statement shows


you know little about what it takes to be a christian. to truly believe what i posted earlier takes a lifetime obligation, personal sacrifice, and being rejected by many.

we certainly love and forgive, but it does not mean we should allow these things to happen and continue to happen. forgiveness is not about someone getting away with something, but rather your ability to let that hatred go in your life. to allow a rapist to return to the street and rape again is just as bad as the rapist.

Apparently, I know more of what it takes to be a christian than you do. My ACTIONS dictate who I am, not my BELIEFS. Beliefs are nothing if they aren't supported by actions.

shrewsbury
09-07-2012, 12:19 PM
so you are for the death penalty and pro life, but think prisoners should have rights while incarcerated?

and i am sure you know more and are a better christian than I am or ever will be.

habsheaven
09-07-2012, 12:47 PM
so you are for the death penalty and pro life, but think prisoners should have rights while incarcerated?

and i am sure you know more and are a better christian than I am or ever will be.

I believe prisoners should have basic rights while incarcerated. To me that means; food, shelter & medical care. I am open to the concept of a right to practice a religion being a basic right too.

Your statements in this thread indicate to me that; yes, I do know more about being a christian than you. I never claimed to be a better christian than you because you stated 4 requirements that I cannot agree with.

mrveggieman
09-07-2012, 01:00 PM
I believe prisoners should have basic rights while incarcerated. To me that means; food, shelter & medical care. I am open to the concept of a right to practice a religion being a basic right too.

Your statements in this thread indicate to me that; yes, I do know more about being a christian than you. I never claimed to be a better christian than you because you stated 4 requirements that I cannot agree with.

I agree that most prisoners should have basic rights. Food, clothing, shelter, health care etc. However if you are a child rapist/killer, commit a hate crime, etc you are a piece of trash, have no rights and should be put to death immediately. Also if you commit a crime in the name of your religion you also should lose your right to practice your chosen religion.

shrewsbury
09-07-2012, 01:22 PM
veggie, i can agree with most of that.

habs, so what is a christian? can you quote what Jesus says about prisoners or rapist or murderers? not paul or the gang, but Jesus.

habsheaven
09-07-2012, 01:29 PM
veggie, i can agree with most of that.

habs, so what is a christian? can you quote what Jesus says about prisoners or rapist or murderers? not paul or the gang, but Jesus.

I will leave the quoting of Jesus to the christians. If your implication is that Jesus spoke of treating prisoners in the way that you propose, I would say that I obviously have been giving his teachings too much credit.

Wickabee
09-07-2012, 01:57 PM
no religious rights, no educational rights, no health rights, no voting rights, no rights to earn an income, no special diet rights, no rights at all, work on a chain gang all day and get fed what you need to live.
if you are not fit to enter society, then you should be executed, and anyone killing people, raping people, or molesting children are on that list.

rehab? maybe for a car thief or drug user, and other prisoners, but no mercy or rights for a murderer, rapist, or child molesters.

habs, i'll take two tomato's for that one, please!!

I hate to say, Jay, but I do believe this goes directly against Jesus' teaching that if one truly repents in their heart, they will be saved. They have done wrong, no doubt, but if you simply send them to a box and don't give them the ability to repent (by taking away religious rights) then you're standing in the way of true repentance and stealing his inherent right to do so and be saved.

shrewsbury
09-07-2012, 03:00 PM
wickabee, i agree with the first part. but it only takes the mind and heart to repent, not the bible, a statue, a rug, a priest, or certain foods.

Habs, jesus says nothing directly related to this. but he does say to protect the temple of God, and the temple is your body.

habsheaven
09-07-2012, 03:14 PM
Habs, jesus says nothing directly related to this. but he does say to protect the temple of God, and the temple is your body.

What does that have to do with the topic at hand?

Wickabee
09-07-2012, 03:27 PM
wickabee, i agree with the first part. but it only takes the mind and heart to repent, not the bible, a statue, a rug, a priest, or certain foods.

Habs, jesus says nothing directly related to this. but he does say to protect the temple of God, and the temple is your body.

Many people find that following those unnecessary rules helps them stay the course. Kind of like a musician with a metronome. It's not necessary for the song, but it does make it a lot easier to keep the beat.

shrewsbury
09-07-2012, 04:06 PM
wickabbe, i can agree with that/

habs, just answering your idea that i don't know about being a christian.

someone molesting, raping, or killing you is not protecting your temple, if you allow others to have this done to them, you are not protecting God's temple.

habsheaven
09-07-2012, 04:15 PM
wickabbe, i can agree with that/

habs, just answering your idea that i don't know about being a christian.

someone molesting, raping, or killing you is not protecting your temple, if you allow others to have this done to them, you are not protecting God's temple.

Where on Earth did you see me say this or even imply this?

Wickabee
09-07-2012, 04:29 PM
wickabbe, i can agree with that/


So how does taking those things away allow repentance, if they are often necessary for true repentance?

shrewsbury
09-07-2012, 04:37 PM
wickabbe, i can see how SOME will need these things, but i can also see that they should have thought about that first. My biggest issue is lifetime criminals, and those that murder, rape, do crimes in the name of some God, or do crimes in the name of some race, and those molest. the rest i could possibly see allowing some basic rights, but only some.

Wickabee
09-07-2012, 05:00 PM
wickabbe, i can see how SOME will need these things, but i can also see that they should have thought about that first. My biggest issue is lifetime criminals, and those that murder, rape, do crimes in the name of some God, or do crimes in the name of some race, and those molest. the rest i could possibly see allowing some basic rights, but only some.

Well, first off, if you take it away from SOME, you have to take it away from ALL.
Second, and more importantly, obviously these measures would have to be on a case-by-case basis, or else there's just too much room for error. However, we know rapists can be truly repentant, as well as murderers and basically everyone else. Remember 1 Corinthians 9-11? You were on that in the homosexuality argument, but the scripture isn't actually about that. It says ANYONE has the ability to repent. Couple that with John 8:7 (Let he who is without sin cast the first stone) and one could easily argue that it is not for us to kill for retribution, for none among us is without sin and killing wrongdoers takes away their right to repentance if they so choose/learn. Would your conscience be clear knowing you took away a man's ability to repent for the purpose of saving some money?

Is jail for retribution or rehabilitation? You could argue Eye for an Eye I suppose, but Jesus' teachings outweigh the OT, so there's that. Career criminals DO still have the ability to be repentant, unless there is a chemical imbalance or something, in which case most are against killing them and for sending them to a secure treatment center.

Don't get me wrong, I do believe the death penalty is useful for some things. For example, had the Batman shooter been taken into custody on scene and there's no room for saying he didn't do it, kill him. Where there is no question whatsoever of guilt, I'm for it in heinous crimes. However, the amount where there is absolutely no question is a very, VERY small amount. I do believe in the idea of "I'd rather let 1000 guilty men go free than incarcerate 1 innocent man." The death penalty does serve for a minor amount of protection, but it is by no means a truly Christian ideal.

Here's a question, though, when you say career criminal, are you talking about a violent rapist who re-offends, an inner city drug dealer who keeps getting caught, a man who repeatedly steals bread to feed his family, someone who has been caught driving drunk over and over, or all of the above?

mrveggieman
09-07-2012, 05:17 PM
Here's a question, though, when you say career criminal, are you talking about a violent rapist who re-offends, an inner city drug dealer who keeps getting caught, a man who repeatedly steals bread to feed his family, someone who has been caught driving drunk over and over, or all of the above?

IMO the violent rapist is the worst and needs to be taken out immediately. Then the drunk driver because he is a public menace. He may not intend to hurt anyone but he is very neglegant and it appears the he has no regard for the safety of the public let alone his own. As far as the drug dealer who's to say that he is not slinging dope to support his kids or a sick family member just like the guy who steals bread to feed his family?

Wickabee
09-07-2012, 05:36 PM
IMO the violent rapist is the worst and needs to be taken out immediately. Then the drunk driver because he is a public menace. He may not intend to hurt anyone but he is very neglegant and it appears the he has no regard for the safety of the public let alone his own. As far as the drug dealer who's to say that he is not slinging dope to support his kids or a sick family member just like the guy who steals bread to feed his family?

Taken out = killed? or out of society?

I'll give you the rapist.
Should the drunk driver go to jail for life or be killed? Could you not put him under house arrest or take his license away or install a breathalyzer-starter?
Is crime okay if it's supporting a family? In the case of drugs, is his facilitating the ruination of others' lives ok because it's supporting his children? Do you consider it the addicts fault for being addicted?

These are just genuine questions I think need to be asked in this discussion. This is probably one of the most complicated issues on this board.

mrveggieman
09-10-2012, 09:44 AM
Taken out = killed? or out of society?

I'll give you the rapist.
Should the drunk driver go to jail for life or be killed? Could you not put him under house arrest or take his license away or install a breathalyzer-starter?
Is crime okay if it's supporting a family? In the case of drugs, is his facilitating the ruination of others' lives ok because it's supporting his children? Do you consider it the addicts fault for being addicted?

These are just genuine questions I think need to be asked in this discussion. This is probably one of the most complicated issues on this board.

I have no problem with a child rapist being "taken out" or executed. As far as the repeat drunk driver he needs to be put away as well. Either in a jail cell or some type or rehab center which is pretty much like jail. As far as dealing dope the drug dealer would go out of business if people would stop using. Most people who use drugs were not forced into using them.