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mrveggieman
09-13-2012, 11:09 AM
Here's a question that I have always asked. Why do christians feel the need to clown islam and muslims for doing essentially the same thing that they do. For example both of them go by holy books that are over 1000 years old. Both of those books condone barbaric things that would be unacceptable by todays standards. Both of them make reference to miracles that are scientifically impossible. Both of them make reference to Jesus. And both of them worship a god that has been seen or heard by no one alive today. This is not a knock on either religion but it makes me laugh that one religion can claim to be superior and the both do the same thing. That's like one murderer saying that he is better than the other one because he murders people quickly compared to the other murderer who likes to tourture his victims.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_similarities_between_Islam_and_Christ ianity

ensbergcollector
09-13-2012, 11:13 AM
Here's a question that I have always asked. Why do christians feel the need to clown islams and muslims for doing essentially the same thing that they do. For example both of them go by holy books that are over 1000 years old. Both of those books condone barbaric things that would be unacceptable by todays standards. Both of them make reference to miracles that are scientifically impossible. Both of them make reference to Jesus. And both of them worship a god that has been seen or heard by no one alive today. This is not a knock on either religion but it makes me laugh that one religion can claim to be superior and the both do the same thing. That's like one murderer saying that he is better than the other one because he murders people quickly compared to the other murderer who likes to tourture his victims.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_similarities_between_Islam_and_Christ ianity

first of all, i don't think anyone is "clowning" islam. you talk about all the things they have in common and you are correct. However, there are no christian led nations who have laws making it ok to kill non-christians. There are no mobs of christians rioting and murdering anyone who says bad things about jesus. There are things in the christian bible that are violent, yet no nation or group lives by the violent passages of christian scripture. Millions of muslims live by the violent passages of islamic scripture. There are plenty of similarities between the two but there are also extreme differences. If christians today were creating mobs and murdering innocent people over cartoons and documentaries then I would be "clowning" on them as well.

you keep saying "both do the same thing." can you not see that both are not "doing" the same thing?

Wickabee
09-13-2012, 11:42 AM
first of all, i don't think anyone is "clowning" islam. you talk about all the things they have in common and you are correct. However, there are no christian led nations who have laws making it ok to kill non-christians. There are no mobs of christians rioting and murdering anyone who says bad things about jesus. There are things in the christian bible that are violent, yet no nation or group lives by the violent passages of christian scripture. Millions of muslims live by the violent passages of islamic scripture. There are plenty of similarities between the two but there are also extreme differences. If christians today were creating mobs and murdering innocent people over cartoons and documentaries then I would be "clowning" on them as well.

you keep saying "both do the same thing." can you not see that both are not "doing" the same thing?

Christians used to do all those things. It seems they've stopped though, as if they've given up that part of their "belief" (none of it was a teaching of Jesus).

Yet they won't give up the fight against marriage because, if something is wrong, then it's always wrong. One has to assume that if something is right, it is always right...right?

So why would a religion that was willing to kill for, say, the Crusades, give up on that belief, but not others...Seems hypocritical to me...

ensbergcollector
09-13-2012, 11:47 AM
Christians used to do all those things. It seems they've stopped though, as if they've given up that part of their "belief" (none of it was a teaching of Jesus).

Yet they won't give up the fight against marriage because, if something is wrong, then it's always wrong. One has to assume that if something is right, it is always right...right?

So why would a religion that was willing to kill for, say, the Crusades, give up on that belief, but not others...Seems hypocritical to me...

christians killing during the crusades was wrong and what a large number of muslims are doing today is wrong. You can't excuse what is done today because of what another group did hundreds of years ago.

you are comparing the crusades which was never scriptural but rather people following a christian leader and not the bible, with marriage which is people attempting to follow the bible and not an individual leader.

Wickabee
09-13-2012, 11:56 AM
christians killing during the crusades was wrong and what a large number of muslims are doing today is wrong. You can't excuse what is done today because of what another group did hundreds of years ago.
I was completely unaware that I was excusing anything at all. Probably because I wasn't. Not sure where you get that I did...


you are comparing the crusades which was never scriptural but rather people following a christian leader and not the bible, with marriage which is people attempting to follow the bible and not an individual leader.

I'm comparing one Christian belief to another. You've abandoned one, saying it's wrong, then turn around and say you shouldn't aboandon beliefs for "progress" because once right/wrong always right/wrong.

And gay marriage does not attempt to follow the bible. If anyone were trying to ACTUALLY follow the bible they would see there is absolutely no need to deny gay the right to marry. I'd go further, but I already have many times and this isn't the thread for it anyway.

mrveggieman
09-13-2012, 11:56 AM
My spin on this is that just like you can be homophobic against gays because deep down you are uncomfortable about your sexuality a just like a christian can be islamophobic because deep down he/she is uncomfortable with their own christanity. If someone makes a false or inaccurate remark about the God that I serve I will correct them but I am not going to pitch a fit. I also am not going to harrass or clown the next man for worshiping God as he sees fit. I am very comfortable and secure with my walk with God it's just too bad that more people are not.

shrewsbury
09-13-2012, 12:03 PM
and some christians may be against gay marriage, but muslim countries jail people who are gay, and actively search for gays to incarcerate.

first off not all christians were in the crusades, a king started this. also the christians got into the crusades to protect the holy land from muslims, who were killing christians and jews and taking over the holy land. (i do not like the idea of a holy land, just using it because they did). and as pointed out, some people think it is ok to punish others for what someone did hundreds of years ago. the crusades, slavery, native americans.

news flash, none of us here were there no had any part in any of it. should we not be worried about who is doing what now, rather than making excuses for people actions based on events that took place way outside of our lifetime.

you can compare bottled water to urine, but it does not mean they are the same.

ensbergcollector
09-13-2012, 12:07 PM
My spin on this is that just like you can be homophobic against gays because deep down you are uncomfortable about your sexuality a just like a christian can be islamophobic because deep down he/she is uncomfortable with their own christanity. If someone makes a false or inaccurate remark about the God that I serve I will correct them but I am not going to pitch a fit. I also am not going to harrass or clown the next man for worshiping God as he sees fit. I am very comfortable and secure with my walk with God it's just too bad that more people are not.

i have absolutely no idea what this post has to do with anything. no one is pitching a fit about muslims worshipping God as they see fit. I have no issue with muslims. I have an issue with the violence done in the name of islam and I have an issue with people who ignore it, excuse it, or try to steer conversations away from it by saying that christians are the same.

mrveggieman
09-13-2012, 12:12 PM
i have absolutely no idea what this post has to do with anything. no one is pitching a fit about muslims worshipping God as they see fit. I have no issue with muslims. I have an issue with the violence done in the name of islam and I have an issue with people who ignore it, excuse it, or try to steer conversations away from it by saying that christians are the same.


I have an issue with violence being commited against any innocent person regardless of race, religion, sexual orientation or any other trivial matter. It's just some people want to point out the violence committed by demographics other than their own but if someone of their own demographic commits an evil act they sweep it under the rug or use the cop out the devil made them do it.

ensbergcollector
09-13-2012, 12:14 PM
I have an issue with violence being commited against any innocent person regardless of race, religion, sexual orientation or any other trivial matter. It's just some people want to point out the violence committed by demographics other than their own but if someone of their own demographic commits an evil act they sweep it under the rug or use the cop out the devil made them do it.

for the millionth time no. people want to point out the difference in violence committed by fringe individuals and violence committed by large percentages of a population. I am the first person to call out idiotic comments or violent actions by "christians." you try to compare mobs of people killing in the name of religion with lone individuals doing the same. you can't compare the two and say they are equal.

Wickabee
09-13-2012, 12:23 PM
and some christians may be against gay marriage, but muslim countries jail people who are gay, and actively search for gays to incarcerate.


first off not all christians were in the crusades, a king started this. also the christians got into the crusades to protect the holy land from muslims, who were killing christians and jews and taking over the holy land. (i do not like the idea of a holy land, just using it because they did). and as pointed out, some people think it is ok to punish others for what someone did hundreds of years ago. the crusades, slavery, native americans.
My point is if you combine all that with the "once right/wrong always right/ wrong", then Christianity is either violent or hypocritical. Your choice.


news flash, none of us here were there no had any part in any of it. should we not be worried about who is doing what now, rather than making excuses for people actions based on events that took place way outside of our lifetime.
Here's a SECOND person telling me I'm making excuses for Muslims murdering people. You guys need an English comprehension course or something.


you can compare bottled water to urine, but it does not mean they are the same.
I'm comparing one religion to another, which is what this thread is for. Everyone's going nuts about Islam, not the actual murderers, so it should be fair game to point out the idiocy of Christianity over the years. If you're going to dish it out, be ready to take it, is all.

mrveggieman
09-13-2012, 12:34 PM
for the millionth time no. people want to point out the difference in violence committed by fringe individuals and violence committed by large percentages of a population. I am the first person to call out idiotic comments or violent actions by "christians." you try to compare mobs of people killing in the name of religion with lone individuals doing the same. you can't compare the two and say they are equal.


I don't know the exact numbers but I heard that there around around 1 billion followers of islam in the world. In any walk of life you have good people and you have bad people but for the generally speaking people are usually good. 1% of 1 billion is about 10 million. So you want to give islam a black eye because of their 1 percent but we must give christanity a pass for their 1 percent because of what reason again?? Bottom line is that islam is no more violent or evil than christanity but of course you will not admit it publically admit it here because you have a vested intrest in the promotion and advancement of christanity.

ensbergcollector
09-13-2012, 12:40 PM
I don't know the exact numbers but I heard that there around around 1 billion followers of islam in the world. In any walk of life you have good people and you have bad people but for the generally speaking people are usually good. 1% of 1 billion is about 10 million. So you want to give islam a black eye because of their 1 percent but we must give christanity a pass for their 1 percent because of what reason again?? Bottom line is that islam is no more violent or evil than christanity but of course you will not admit it publically admit it here because you have a vested intrest in the promotion and advancement of christanity.

and with that lie I will excuse myself from this conversation. Is anyone scared to draw a cartoon about jesus? Is anyone scared to make a movie that belittles christianity? I wonder why not.

mrveggieman
09-13-2012, 12:42 PM
and with that lie I will excuse myself from this conversation. Is anyone scared to draw a cartoon about jesus? Is anyone scared to make a movie that belittles christianity? I wonder why not.

I would think that most of us with any sense who believe in God are worried about getting right by God and not clowning the next man's religion. Any atheist with any sense wouldn't make a video like that because he/she couldn't care less about any religion. Thanks for playing ensberg please come back soon.

habsheaven
09-13-2012, 01:06 PM
and with that lie I will excuse myself from this conversation. Is anyone scared to draw a cartoon about jesus? Is anyone scared to make a movie that belittles christianity? I wonder why not.

Again, it is a segment of the followers that are more violent, not the religion. Why is this so hard to understand?

mrveggieman
09-13-2012, 01:10 PM
Again, it is a segment of the followers that are more violent, not the religion. Why is this so hard to understand?


Because he just like any other conservative christian picks and choses what he wants to go by and disregards the points that do not suit his agenda.

ensbergcollector
09-13-2012, 01:14 PM
Again, it is a segment of the followers that are more violent, not the religion. Why is this so hard to understand?

it is not hard to understand. violence is more encouraged and prevalent in islam than any other religion. why is this so hard to understand?

mrveggieman
09-13-2012, 01:18 PM
it is not hard to understand. violence is more encouraged and prevalent in islam than any other religion. why is this so hard to understand?

Encouraged by who? The 1% who are fanatics? Thanks for stereotyping 1 billion people because the actions of 1% of them.

ensbergcollector
09-13-2012, 01:20 PM
Encouraged by who? The 1% who are fanatics? Thanks for stereotyping 1 billion people because the actions of 1% of them.

where do you get your 1% number from? I'm not stereotyping all muslims. I have said numerous times that I am fully aware that the fanatics do not represent the whole or even the majority. However, they represent a much larger percentage then you find any any other religion IMO.

Wickabee
09-13-2012, 01:22 PM
Encouraged by who? The 1% who are fanatics? Thanks for stereotyping 1 billion people because the actions of 1% of them.

See, this is what he doesn't understand. By making these statements he's calling all Muslims violent murderers, yet he'll turn around and say it's not racist or stereotyping or anything like that.

It's like if I said Republicans are evil and tried to pass it off as a non-partisan, non-political statement.

Wickabee
09-13-2012, 01:22 PM
where do you get your 1% number from? I'm not stereotyping all muslims. I have said numerous times that I am fully aware that the fanatics do not represent the whole or even the majority. However, they represent a much larger percentage then you find any any other religion IMO.

And what, exactly, gives your opinion any more basis than veggie's, mine and others who aren't making racist, sweeping generalizations in this thread?

mrveggieman
09-13-2012, 01:25 PM
where do you get your 1% number from? I'm not stereotyping all muslims. I have said numerous times that I am fully aware that the fanatics do not represent the whole or even the majority. However, they represent a much larger percentage then you find any any other religion IMO.

Do you have numbers that show the percentage of loons who are muslims compared to the loons who are christian? I would love to see them.

ensbergcollector
09-13-2012, 01:25 PM
And what, exactly, gives your opinion any more basis than veggie's, mine and others who aren't making racist, sweeping generalizations in this thread?

absolutely nothing. I was just making sure my statement was seen as opinion and not that I was claiming fact. sorry for any misunderstanding.

ensbergcollector
09-13-2012, 01:26 PM
Do you have numbers that show the percentage of loons who are muslims compared to the loons who are christian? I would love to see them.

no, which is why i stated that my statement was my opinion. You keep saying 1%, i would love to see your proof.

mrveggieman
09-13-2012, 01:59 PM
no, which is why i stated that my statement was my opinion. You keep saying 1%, i would love to see your proof.

Just my opinion. None of us have interviewed every muslim or christian so there is no way you, I or anyone else can say who has more fanatics and loons in their religion. Just like you cannot say that one religion is better or worse than the other.

Wickabee
09-13-2012, 02:41 PM
His point is it's a vast minority, ensberg.

ensbergcollector
09-13-2012, 02:44 PM
His point is it's a vast minority, ensberg.

wait, so he can ask me to prove my opinion but i can't ask him to prove his numbers?

Wickabee
09-13-2012, 02:46 PM
wait, so he can ask me to prove my opinion but i can't ask him to prove his numbers?

He can ask you to back your opinion up. Obviously it's not 1%. If it were, I would be amazed that it is exactly 1/100th of all Muslims. It probably is more. However, you and others have been painting all Muslims the same colour.

Is it 1%? No, probably not. Is it a small enough number that 1% can realistically represent the actual number? You bet.

That's the point, you're trying to turn it into something else. Something quite sinister, I believe. Not to mention, I bdelieve you questioned his 1% before he questioned your "opinion".