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View Full Version : Some Notes on Mitt Romney's Tax Returns (From his Trustee)



pghin08
09-21-2012, 03:00 PM
http://www.mittromney.com/blogs/mitts-view/2012/09/note-trustee-brad-malt


Some highlights, if you don't care to read it all:

Regarding the PWC letter covering the Romneys’ tax filings over 20 years, from 1990 – 2009:


In each year during the entire 20-year period, the Romneys owed both state and federal income taxes.



Over the entire 20-year period, the average annual effective federal tax rate was 20.20%.



Over the entire 20-year period, the lowest annual effective federal personal tax rate was 13.66%.



Over the entire 20-year period, the Romneys gave to charity an average of 13.45% of their adjusted gross income.



Over the entire 20-year period, the total federal and state taxes owed plus the total charitable donations deducted represented 38.49% of total AGI.

During the 20-year period covered by the PWC letter, Gov. and Mrs. Romney paid 100 percent of the taxes that they owed.


I'd recommend reading the whole thing, honestly. He's not releasing his return, but for people who are earnestly looking for answers, there are some significant numbers in here.

habsheaven
09-21-2012, 03:30 PM
Romney must think the public is completely stupid. Why would he calculate his rate on 20 years when everyone is only screaming for 10? Could it be that he wants to be able to show a higher average tax rate by including returns from a period when he actually got paid a salary? When did he stop getting paid salary from Bain? Conveniently the answer can't be found in this release. Epic fail by the campaign once again.

pghin08
09-21-2012, 03:59 PM
Romney must think the public is completely stupid. Why would he calculate his rate on 20 years when everyone is only screaming for 10? Could it be that he wants to be able to show a higher average tax rate by including returns from a period when he actually got paid a salary? When did he stop getting paid salary from Bain? Conveniently the answer can't be found in this release. Epic fail by the campaign once again.

Great point. He left Bain in 1999.

habsheaven
09-21-2012, 04:02 PM
Great point. He left Bain in 1999.

So he says. Prove it by showing the tax returns from 2000 & 2001.

JustAlex
09-21-2012, 04:13 PM
TOO LATE!!!

And guess what, this doesn't help at all.

Like Habs said, why did they do 20 years average???

We only wanted 10!!!

Could it be because the average for the last decade are INSANELY LOW???

Yes....that's EXACTLY IT!

pghin08
09-21-2012, 04:23 PM
To be fair, he's released full tax returns from years where he wasn't paid by Bain. We can probably assume his effective tax rate post-Bain to be between 10-15%.

AUTaxMan
09-21-2012, 04:37 PM
Romney has nothing to gain by releasing his tax returns. They will probably show an effective rate in the teens, which Obama will demagogue until the date of the election. Nobody is sitting out there saying to himself, "I'll vote for Romney, but only if he releases his tax returns."

And why does it have to be 10 years? It's just as arbitrary as 20.

Wickabee
09-21-2012, 04:45 PM
Romney has nothing to gain by releasing his tax returns. They will probably show an effective rate in the teens, which Obama will demagogue until the date of the election. Nobody is sitting out there saying to himself, "I'll vote for Romney, but only if he releases his tax returns."

And why does it have to be 10 years? It's just as arbitrary as 20.

Because his average over the last 20 looks a helluva lot better than his average over the last 10. That's the theory anyway, we can't say one way or the other, since he won't tell us...kind of like his plan to pay for tax cuts. He'll show his tax returns when he's President guys. It's the new campaign strategy modeled after Hollywood film advertising. If they told us everything now, it would ruin the surprise ending where Mitt saves America by killing the poor and Ryan gets the girl!

A Jerry Bruckheimer Production

habsheaven
09-21-2012, 04:51 PM
Romney has nothing to gain by releasing his tax returns. They will probably show an effective rate in the teens, which Obama will demagogue until the date of the election. Nobody is sitting out there saying to himself, "I'll vote for Romney, but only if he releases his tax returns."

And why does it have to be 10 years? It's just as arbitrary as 20.

No, people are saying, "I won't vote for Romney because he is obviously hiding something in his tax returns." The vast majority of people already know that his effective rate is somewhere in the mid-teens. They already know that he donates a lot to charity. They already assume/know that he pays 100% of what he legally owes. What they want to know is: What charities did he donate to? Where is he legally hiding his money? When did Bain stop paying him a salary?

AUTaxMan
09-21-2012, 05:15 PM
No, people are saying, "I won't vote for Romney because he is obviously hiding something in his tax returns." The vast majority of people already know that his effective rate is somewhere in the mid-teens. They already know that he donates a lot to charity. They already assume/know that he pays 100% of what he legally owes. What they want to know is: What charities did he donate to? Where is he legally hiding his money? When did Bain stop paying him a salary?

None of that is going to materially effect how people vote.

AUTaxMan
09-21-2012, 05:15 PM
Because his average over the last 20 looks a helluva lot better than his average over the last 10. That's the theory anyway, we can't say one way or the other, since he won't tell us...kind of like his plan to pay for tax cuts. He'll show his tax returns when he's President guys. It's the new campaign strategy modeled after Hollywood film advertising. If they told us everything now, it would ruin the surprise ending where Mitt saves America by killing the poor and Ryan gets the girl!

A Jerry Bruckheimer Production

Again, why do you only want 10 years? It's an arbitrary number.

Wickabee
09-21-2012, 05:55 PM
Again, why do you only want 10 years? It's an arbitrary number.

Well, in the last 10 years, he hasn't been working for Bain. The ultimate point, in my mind, anyway, is:
A - Why would you let someone who pays VERY little in taxes compared to the average American (in %) make decisions about the tax code? but more importantly:
B - What kind of handoutsdeductions does HE use?
C - Most people are looking for when he actually left Bain. Nothing he's released tells that story one way or the other.

By the way, that's FOUR (4) answers I've given. FOUR.

AUTaxMan
09-21-2012, 06:14 PM
Well, in the last 10 years, he hasn't been working for Bain. The ultimate point, in my mind, anyway, is:
A - Why would you let someone who pays VERY little in taxes compared to the average American (in %) make decisions about the tax code? but more importantly:
B - What kind of handoutsdeductions does HE use?
C - Most people are looking for when he actually left Bain. Nothing he's released tells that story one way or the other.

By the way, that's FOUR (4) answers I've given. FOUR.

A - Would you rather have someone who knows nothing about the tax code (e.g. the average American) make decisions about the tax code?
B - Why do you care what deductions he takes if they are legal?
C - Why do you care when he left Bain?

These things do not matter and are wholly unimportant in the grand scheme of things. What is important is whether or not American voters think he will be a better President than Obama.

habsheaven
09-21-2012, 06:15 PM
None of that is going to materially effect how people vote.

Probably not, but apparently whatever he doesn't want people to see would.

Wickabee
09-21-2012, 06:22 PM
A - Would you rather have someone who knows nothing about the tax code (e.g. the average American) make decisions about the tax code?
No, but Romney has made it VERY clear his only concern is tax cuts for the rich. If he had any idea what tax burden everyone else was under, he, and the party, wouldn't expect people to buy that.

B - Why do you care what deductions he takes if they are legal?
Well, poor people who use deductions are self-proclaimed victims who feel entitled to everything under the sun and will never be convinced to take responsibility and care for their own lives. I just want to know if he's one of those leeches.

C - Why do you care when he left Bain?
Because I don't believe his tale of when he did.


These things do not matter and are wholly unimportant in the grand scheme of things. What is important is whether or not American voters think he will be a better President than Obama.

Yes, and if he's going to pull stats out of his butt like "47%", how is he going to look when in other countries. He's not even President yet and he ticked off a few right before the Olympics. Elect Romney and the whole world will hate you. Elect Obama and it will stay at around 3/4.

AUTaxMan
09-21-2012, 06:57 PM
No, but Romney has made it VERY clear his only concern is tax cuts for the rich. If he had any idea what tax burden everyone else was under, he, and the party, wouldn't expect people to buy that.

I believe his plan is to cut everyone's taxes.


Well, poor people who use deductions are self-proclaimed victims who feel entitled to everything under the sun and will never be convinced to take responsibility and care for their own lives. I just want to know if he's one of those leeches.

That makes no sense at all.


Because I don't believe his tale of when he did.

But why does it matter?


Yes, and if he's going to pull stats out of his butt like "47%", how is he going to look when in other countries. He's not even President yet and he ticked off a few right before the Olympics. Elect Romney and the whole world will hate you. Elect Obama and it will stay at around 3/4.

I don't know where you are getting this stuff, but it is entertaining. Please keep it coming.

Wickabee
09-21-2012, 08:33 PM
I believe his plan is to cut everyone's taxes.
True, but his plan is to cut taxes for the wealthy more than anyone else.


That makes no sense at all.
Probably because it's based on something Romney actually said and not what his supporters, in retrospect, think he maybe should have meant.


But why does it matter?
For me, it would show him to not only be a liar, but a terrible one. Others have reasons that are far more important than that, I'm sure.



I don't know where you are getting this stuff, but it is entertaining. Please keep it coming.

I'm getting it from Romney and yes, it is ALL very hilarious.

shrewsbury
09-22-2012, 12:37 AM
this reminds me of when Obama released his BC, only for some to say it was faked.

Wickabee
09-22-2012, 12:40 AM
this reminds me of when Obama released his BC, only for some to say it was faked.

What exactly has he released? People want to know for certain when he left Bain, how little he paid in taxes despite making millions upon millions, what deductions he leeched off the system. He didn't really come up with anything of consequence. It's like tossing an empty Big Mac container to a hungry man. There's nothing there anyone wanted.

Zimbow
09-22-2012, 02:01 AM
Because his average over the last 20 looks a helluva lot better than his average over the last 10. That's the theory anyway, we can't say one way or the other, since he won't tell us...kind of like his plan to pay for tax cuts. He'll show his tax returns when he's President guys. It's the new campaign strategy modeled after Hollywood film advertising. If they told us everything now, it would ruin the surprise ending where Mitt saves America by killing the poor and Ryan gets the girl!

A Jerry Bruckheimer Production

+1

AUTaxMan
09-22-2012, 08:39 AM
True, but his plan is to cut taxes for the wealthy more than anyone else.

Can you please explain this. I have not seen it anywhere. I thought the plan was to cut each of the marginal rates by the same proportion (20% or something like that).

AUTaxMan
09-22-2012, 08:40 AM
What exactly has he released? People want to know for certain when he left Bain, how little he paid in taxes despite making millions upon millions, what deductions he leeched off the system. He didn't really come up with anything of consequence. It's like tossing an empty Big Mac container to a hungry man. There's nothing there anyone wanted.

So if you take deductions, you are leeching off of the system?

INTIMADATOR2007
09-22-2012, 09:47 AM
You liberals keep wasting your time worrying about Romney's tax records in the mean time we are going to win an Election ....BBBWWWAAAHHHH !


Thirty percent to charity.
-- Overpaid in taxes to the federal government.

Romney’s 2011 tax return shows charitable contributions totaling a little over $4 million, meaning he donated 30 percent of his income. Romney’s 2010 tax return shows charitable contribution of almost $3 million, meaning he donated about 11 percent of his income to charity.
And as for the 20-year summary of the GOP candidate’s tax returns his campaign released Friday, Romney donates on average 13.45 percent of his adjusted gross income to charity each year.
“That’s nearly twice the rate of President Obama, who according to his tax returns from 2000 through 2011 donated just less than 7 percent of his adjusted gross income to charities,” theWashington Times (http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2012/sep/21/romney-doubles-obamas-charitable-giving/) notes.

habsheaven
09-22-2012, 10:26 AM
You liberals keep wasting your time worrying about Romney's tax records in the mean time we are going to win an Election ....BBBWWWAAAHHHH !


Thirty percent to charity.
-- Overpaid in taxes to the federal government.

Romney’s 2011 tax return shows charitable contributions totaling a little over $4 million, meaning he donated 30 percent of his income. Romney’s 2010 tax return shows charitable contribution of almost $3 million, meaning he donated about 11 percent of his income to charity.
And as for the 20-year summary of the GOP candidate’s tax returns his campaign released Friday, Romney donates on average 13.45 percent of his adjusted gross income to charity each year.
“That’s nearly twice the rate of President Obama, who according to his tax returns from 2000 through 2011 donated just less than 7 percent of his adjusted gross income to charities,” theWashington Times (http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2012/sep/21/romney-doubles-obamas-charitable-giving/) notes.


Did you happen to catch the fact that Romney only claimed about 2.8 million in charitable donations so that his effective rate would stay above the 13% that he claimed back in the spring. Just wait a few months and Romney will file an adjusted return to capture the tax benefit of the remainder of his charitable donations. Effectively putting his rate back under 13% when none of us will be the wiser.

INTIMADATOR2007
09-22-2012, 10:32 AM
Did you happen to catch the fact that Romney only claimed about 2.8 million in charitable donations so that his effective rate would stay above the 13% that he claimed back in the spring. Just wait a few months and Romney will file an adjusted return to capture the tax benefit of the remainder of his charitable donations. Effectively putting his rate back under 13% when none of us will be the wiser.
I'm not a tax guy ,But what i do know is we have one guy in office who hasn't a clue on anything and we have one guy running for office that has proved he has a clue in a little bit of everything , The difference couldn't be any bigger that's why the left is worried abut a tax return .

habsheaven
09-22-2012, 10:40 AM
I'm not a tax guy ,But what i do know is we have one guy in office who hasn't a clue on anything and we have one guy running for office that has proved he has a clue in a little bit of everything , The difference couldn't be any bigger that's why the left is worried abut a tax return .

Every time Romney opens his mouth he proves the old adage right. "Better to stay silent and be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt." Doesn't Fox report on all these gaffes he keeps making? You should expand your horizons and see the utter failure his campaign has been.

INTIMADATOR2007
09-22-2012, 10:51 AM
Every time Romney opens his mouth he proves the old adage right. "Better to stay silent and be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt." Doesn't Fox report on all these gaffes he keeps making? You should expand your horizons and see the utter failure his campaign has been.
Utter failure , Is that what the liberal web sites are calling it ? If its so bad of a campaign why isn't Obama up 10 -15 pts.? Why is Romney running neck and neck in the polls with some polls show him leading by 1 or 2 pts. In the next coming weeks you will see the "real" polls show Romney with a huge advantage. Obama's campaign is in full panic mode and there actions are showing it .

habsheaven
09-22-2012, 11:27 AM
Utter failure , Is that what the liberal web sites are calling it ? If its so bad of a campaign why isn't Obama up 10 -15 pts.? Why is Romney running neck and neck in the polls with some polls show him leading by 1 or 2 pts. In the next coming weeks you will see the "real" polls show Romney with a huge advantage. Obama's campaign is in full panic mode and there actions are showing it .

I'm going to toss you a shovel. Just reach a little to your "left" to grasp it, and you can start digging your head out of the sand. Your welcome.

Wickabee
09-22-2012, 01:06 PM
Can you please explain this. I have not seen it anywhere. I thought the plan was to cut each of the marginal rates by the same proportion (20% or something like that).
No link but I heard/read he wants to also cut taxes on those making >$250,000 further. Don't remember how much.

Wickabee
09-22-2012, 01:07 PM
So if you take deductions, you are leeching off of the system?

If the 47% are leeches...

duwal
09-22-2012, 06:18 PM
I'm not a tax guy ,But what i do know is we have one guy in office who hasn't a clue on anything and we have one guy running for office that has proved he has a clue in a little bit of everything , The difference couldn't be any bigger that's why the left is worried abut a tax return .

I'm not exactly worried about it but I am wondering why he does not want to disclose the information. I know that if someone asked me I can show them every year because I have absolutely nothing to hide or nothing in question. But if someone does then you kind of need to question their trustworthiness

INTIMADATOR2007
09-22-2012, 06:54 PM
I'm not exactly worried about it but I am wondering why he does not want to disclose the information. I know that if someone asked me I can show them every year because I have absolutely nothing to hide or nothing in question. But if someone does then you kind of need to question their trustworthiness
He has no reason to, he has done what the law asks of him . If the Democrats think they can win an election on Mitts tax returns that he has already provided within the law , something the dems. cant handle (things done by law) they have a problem. In most normal elections the candidates argue on ideas and policies and what they can do to better the country , It seems to me the democrats want to do anything but run on that idea, but continue to deflect and distract with silly stuff like the tax returns. I work every day in section 8 housing apt. complexes in Atlanta the racial make up is not even close and when i talk everyday to the residents (old and young) the last thing they are worried about is Mitt's taxes , If the democrats do not start running on their records and how to better the economy and keep running on Romney's tax return the loss for them will be even bigger.

habsheaven
09-22-2012, 07:12 PM
He has no reason to, he has done what the law asks of him . If the Democrats think they can win an election on Mitts tax returns that he has already provided within the law , something the dems. cant handle (things done by law) they have a problem. In most normal elections the candidates argue on ideas and policies and what they can do to better the country , It seems to me the democrats want to do anything but run on that idea, but continue to deflect and distract with silly stuff like the tax returns. I work every day in section 8 housing apt. complexes in Atlanta the racial make up is not even close and when i talk everyday to the residents (old and young) the last thing they are worried about is Mitt's taxes , If the democrats do not start running on their records and how to better the economy and keep running on Romney's tax return the loss for them will be even bigger.

Guess how many years of taxes Romney asked for from his potential VP pick? That's right, Romney made Ryan fork over 10 years worth. Imagine that.

You still haven't given me your projected electoral college numbers. I'm waiting.

Wickabee
09-22-2012, 07:18 PM
He has no reason to, he has done what the law asks of him . If the Democrats think they can win an election on Mitts tax returns that he has already provided within the law , something the dems. cant handle (things done by law) they have a problem. In most normal elections the candidates argue on ideas and policies and what they can do to better the country , It seems to me the democrats want to do anything but run on that idea, but continue to deflect and distract with silly stuff like the tax returns. I work every day in section 8 housing apt. complexes in Atlanta the racial make up is not even close and when i talk everyday to the residents (old and young) the last thing they are worried about is Mitt's taxes , If the democrats do not start running on their records and how to better the economy and keep running on Romney's tax return the loss for them will be even bigger.

The Republicans aren't running on anything but a secret promise.

duwal
09-22-2012, 07:28 PM
He has no reason to, he has done what the law asks of him . If the Democrats think they can win an election on Mitts tax returns that he has already provided within the law , something the dems. cant handle (things done by law) they have a problem. In most normal elections the candidates argue on ideas and policies and what they can do to better the country , It seems to me the democrats want to do anything but run on that idea, but continue to deflect and distract with silly stuff like the tax returns. I work every day in section 8 housing apt. complexes in Atlanta the racial make up is not even close and when i talk everyday to the residents (old and young) the last thing they are worried about is Mitt's taxes , If the democrats do not start running on their records and how to better the economy and keep running on Romney's tax return the loss for them will be even bigger.

what is funny is you seem to be the only one that doesn't think that this will be a close race.

Maybe most of the people in Section 8 housing aren't worried about Mitt's tax records but guaranteed those with more substantial incomes like myself are questioning

Rockman
09-22-2012, 08:50 PM
Stop wasting your time with INTIMADATOR on this subject. It's clear he comes from a conservative community and has a conservative circle of friends, and only seeks out/agrees with conservative media outlets. He doesn't see that the country and beliefs of the country are bigger, more complex, and more complicated than just his circle. What do you expect in a situation like that?

We can all say I told you so in a couple months, or he can rub it in our faces. His view point isn't going to change when everything he directly hears and sees is anti-Obama + pro-Romney.

AUTaxMan
09-23-2012, 03:40 PM
Did you happen to catch the fact that Romney only claimed about 2.8 million in charitable donations so that his effective rate would stay above the 13% that he claimed back in the spring. Just wait a few months and Romney will file an adjusted return to capture the tax benefit of the remainder of his charitable donations. Effectively putting his rate back under 13% when none of us will be the wiser.

I haven't studied his tax returns, but the more money you make, your charitable deductions start to get phased out, so it is possible to have $4 million in contributions and only get to deduct $2.8 million.

AUTaxMan
09-23-2012, 03:46 PM
No link but I heard/read he wants to also cut taxes on those making >$250,000 further. Don't remember how much.

I think what you are hearing is probably related to the fact that a 20% across the board tax cut means a higher percentage cut for the rich. They are paying 35% now, so cutting their taxes by 20% is a 7% cut in their marginal rate. Cutting a middle class family's marginal rates by 20% will result in a 5% marginal rate cut. I guess you could spin that as giving higher tax cuts to the rich, but it is a proportional rate cut, so both brackets are theoretically paying 20% less than they were last year. At the end of the day, the 35% bracket is down 20% to 28% and the 25% bracket is down 20% to 20%.

habsheaven
09-23-2012, 08:04 PM
Well you would no more about that than I. It was brought to my attention by a speaker on CNN. I will reserve judgement until I find out more about it.



I haven't studied his tax returns, but the more money you make, your charitable deductions start to get phased out, so it is possible to have $4 million in contributions and only get to deduct $2.8 million.

AUTaxMan
09-23-2012, 08:52 PM
Well you would no more about that than I. It was brought to my attention by a speaker on CNN. I will reserve judgement until I find out more about it.

The phase-out is part of the AMT calculation. There are also limitations depending upon what type of charity that you give to and what type of property you give. As a rule of thumb, if a talking head on tv is trying to discuss tax issues, they generally have no clue what they're talking about.

Wickabee
09-23-2012, 11:50 PM
I think what you are hearing is probably related to the fact that a 20% across the board tax cut means a higher percentage cut for the rich. They are paying 35% now, so cutting their taxes by 20% is a 7% cut in their marginal rate. Cutting a middle class family's marginal rates by 20% will result in a 5% marginal rate cut. I guess you could spin that as giving higher tax cuts to the rich, but it is a proportional rate cut, so both brackets are theoretically paying 20% less than they were last year. At the end of the day, the 35% bracket is down 20% to 28% and the 25% bracket is down 20% to 20%.

That may be, but something is telling me it's not. Unfortunately, I can't confirm or deny either way, but you may be right.


As a rule of thumb, if a talking head on tv is trying to discuss tax issues, they generally have no clue what they're talking about.
Fixed

mrveggieman
09-24-2012, 11:16 AM
My question is if Romney's tax returns are no big deal why is he going through hell and high water to hide them? If he is going to that much trouble to hide them then how can I trust them on anything else? It kind of reminds me during the nba lockout last year when cleveland cavs owner dan gilbert told nba union director billy knight that he had an idea and he wanted bk to sign off on it without having a chance to study it. Gilbert told him to trust his gut. BK pretty much told gilbert what he can do with himself. Romney is pretty much telling the american people to trust his gut. Sorry mitt the american people are not stupid.

tndcollectables
09-24-2012, 11:25 AM
I read were he didn't claim all his normal donations so his tax rate would be higher. Also all his outside tax havens he paid "their" lower tax rate, on his $30+ millions.

tndcollectables
09-24-2012, 11:27 AM
My question is if Romney's tax returns are no big deal why is he going through hell and high water to hide them. If he is going to that much trouble to hide them then how can I trust them on anything else? It kind of reminds me during the nba lockout last year when cleveland cavs owner dan gilbert told nba union director billy knight that he had an idea and he wanted bk to sign off on it without having a chance to study it. Gilbert told him to trust his gut. BK pretty much told gilbert what he can do with himself. Romney is pretty much telling the american people to trust his gut. Sorry mitt the american people are not stupid.

I think its because he isn't paying his tithing percentage. He doesn't want the Mormon church to see that.

mrveggieman
09-24-2012, 11:38 AM
I think its because he isn't paying his tithing percentage. He doesn't want the Mormon church to see that.


If mitt can't do right by his church how can we trust him to do right by our country?

AUTaxMan
09-24-2012, 11:54 AM
The rampant speculation here is ridiculous. Let's just make up whatever bad thing we want to believe about Romney and use that as an excuse not to vote for him.

mrveggieman
09-24-2012, 12:18 PM
The rampant speculation here is ridiculous. Let's just make up whatever bad thing we want to believe about Romney and use that as an excuse not to vote for him.

Just like you conservatives make up whatever the hell you want about president obama as an excuse not to vote for him. At this point most people on P&R have their minds made up who they are going to vote for and there is nothing that can be presented that will change our minds one way or the other.

AUTaxMan
09-24-2012, 12:22 PM
Just like you conservatives make up whatever the hell you want about president obama as an excuse not to vote for him. At this point most people on P&R have their minds made up who they are going to vote for and there is nothing that can be presented that will change our minds one way or the other.

Actually, my opinions about Obama are supported by facts. I live in the real world. You live in fantasy land where you need nothing upon which to base your vote other than a D next to someone's name.

tndcollectables
09-24-2012, 12:25 PM
The rampant speculation here is ridiculous. Let's just make up whatever bad thing we want to believe about Romney and use that as an excuse not to vote for him.



Not making anything up, its floating out there because why not release the information?

tndcollectables
09-24-2012, 12:31 PM
The rampant speculation here is ridiculous. Let's just make up whatever bad thing we want to believe about Romney and use that as an excuse not to vote for him.


I live a high Mormon area, they are all talking about it, but they also think he is great. I think his slogan is very contradictory: Moromney believe in America! If he does why did he outsource? Why is he hiding his money in tax havens, if he believes in America? Don't say that all rich people do because we aren't talking all rich people. Moromney is running for President for all the rich people.

mrveggieman
09-24-2012, 12:36 PM
Actually, my opinions about Obama are supported by facts. I live in the real world. You live in fantasy land where you need nothing upon which to base your vote other than a D next to someone's name.


The last time I checked I never once registered under any political party. You my friend are the one who is in a fantasy world and will believe anything that faux news puts out there to slander our president. Romney is clearly hiding something on his tax returns. Neither you nor I know what it is but it is obviously something important in order for him to make a big stink over it. How can I trust him to do the right thing with our country if he is so secretive about his imcome taxes? You conservatives are so blinded by your hatred of President Obama that you will vote for a 2x4 just out of spite instead of voting for him. It's all good because romney will not win the election and you will have another 4 years of playing armchair politician on P&R.

Wickabee
09-24-2012, 02:27 PM
The rampant speculation here is ridiculous. Let's just make up whatever bad thing we want to believe about Romney and use that as an excuse not to vote for him.

It would stop very quickly if Romney would just release them. He won't, so we can only speculate. He's left everything up to the American imagination and that's a dangerous thing.

AUTaxMan
09-24-2012, 02:38 PM
I live a high Mormon area, they are all talking about it, but they also think he is great. I think his slogan is very contradictory: Moromney believe in America! If he does why did he outsource? Why is he hiding his money in tax havens, if he believes in America? Don't say that all rich people do because we aren't talking all rich people. Moromney is running for President for all the rich people.

What has he outsourced? What is he hiding in tax havens? Does he have some duty to pay as much in taxes as possible?

Wickabee
09-24-2012, 02:56 PM
What has he outsourced?
Many, many jobs to India, China, etc, etc


What is he hiding in tax havens?
No one knows. That's why it's called "hiding" and not "showing everyone what they've asked for".


Does he have some duty to pay as much in taxes as possible?
No, but if he's going to call 47% of the nation unable to take responsibility and care for their own lives because they don't pay the taxes everyone else does, what does it make him for hiding money offshore and taking a bunch of deductions?

tndcollectables
09-24-2012, 03:08 PM
^^^^Agree^^^^

mrveggieman
09-24-2012, 03:48 PM
Many, many jobs to India, China, etc, etc


No one knows. That's why it's called "hiding" and not "showing everyone what they've asked for".


No, but if he's going to call 47% of the nation unable to take responsibility and care for their own lives because they don't pay the taxes everyone else does, what does it make him for hiding money offshore and taking a bunch of deductions?

CHURCH!! :love0030::love0030::love0030:

AUTaxMan
09-24-2012, 04:40 PM
Many, many jobs to India, China, etc, etc


No one knows. That's why it's called "hiding" and not "showing everyone what they've asked for".


No, but if he's going to call 47% of the nation unable to take responsibility and care for their own lives because they don't pay the taxes everyone else does, what does it make him for hiding money offshore and taking a bunch of deductions?

Was his job to provide Americans with jobs, or was it to make money for struggling companies?

Also, why do you assume that he is "hiding" money offshore. What is wrong with "hiding" money offshore if it is not illegal?

Deductions are created to be taken. No sane person would leave deductions on the table just to be a good citizen.

mrveggieman
09-24-2012, 04:51 PM
Was his job to provide Americans with jobs, or was it to make money for struggling companies?

Also, why do you assume that he is "hiding" money offshore. What is wrong with "hiding" money offshore if it is not illegal?

Deductions are created to be taken. No sane person would leave deductions on the table just to be a good citizen.


If he isn't doing anything illegal or unethical why is he being so secretive about it? If romney dosen't want everyone in his personal business then politics is probably not the best line of work for him.

shrewsbury
09-24-2012, 05:17 PM
so Harry Reid can lie about his contacts giving him info, Romney can give out his taxes and we are still going to try and say he did something wrong.

Instead of you being liberals being BIRTHERS, you are no officially called TAXERS

so i still want to see Obama real BC and his college transcripts, why is he hiding them?
in fact, i got a call last night and was told Obama has no BC or college transcripts, prove me wrong!!!!

mrveggieman
09-24-2012, 05:36 PM
so Harry Reid can lie about his contacts giving him info, Romney can give out his taxes and we are still going to try and say he did something wrong.

Romney is playing games. He is not releasing the taxes in question. As long he is not releasing them there will be questions.

Instead of you being liberals being BIRTHERS, you are no officially called TAXERS

Call it what you want just call it.

so i still want to see Obama real BC and his college transcripts, why is he hiding them?
in fact, i got a call last night and was told Obama has no BC or college transcripts, prove me wrong!!!!

President Obama has already released a legit BC. If you chose not to believe it that's on you. Everyone else knows it's legit. As far as the college transcripts that has no bearing on anything whatsoever it's just a conservative smoke screen.



Responses in bold.

Wickabee
09-24-2012, 06:09 PM
Was his job to provide Americans with jobs, or was it to make money for struggling companies?
It just goes to show that he only cares about the people giving him money. In that case, it was shareholders who wanted him to outsource companies and put Americans out of work (before blaming illegal immigrants during his campaign...) and he did it. If he's President do you think he'll listen to the people, or just his biggest contributors? And how will that be good for the average American?


Also, why do you assume that he is "hiding" money offshore. What is wrong with "hiding" money offshore if it is not illegal?
It's hiding it from the IRS. Come on, I know you're smarter than that. No need to ask questions you already know the answers to just to try and trip me up.


Deductions are created to be taken. No sane person would leave deductions on the table just to be a good citizen.
But 47% of the population is not worth campaigning to and will never be responsible for their own lives because their deduction (for being poor/old/students/veterans/etc) is 100%. They feel entitled to their deduction, so how is he not an entitled victim looking for the government to take responsibility for him if he's taking deductions? The only difference is his deductions are smaller on a percentage level but monumentally higher in real world numbers? If he takes a single deduction he's just as much an "entitled victim" as the 47% he referenced.

shrewsbury
09-24-2012, 06:10 PM
so him claiming to be a foreigner and receiving aid on based on it his college transcripts would be ok?

Wickabee
09-24-2012, 06:11 PM
so Harry Reid can lie about his contacts giving him info, Romney can give out his taxes and we are still going to try and say he did something wrong.

Shrew, examples like that only hold weight if there is some ounce of truth to them. There is not on this one. I do not remember one single person who didn't call Ried an idiot for that. I don't know if it's intentional selective memory on your part or just the normal kind, but you should go back and read the threads on that one. No one defended him or said it was okay.

INTIMADATOR2007
09-24-2012, 09:43 PM
The middle east is on fire , thousands of people in eastern countries in the streets shouting kill americans , Our Ambassador is dead the economy is in the tank , gas is double what it was when Obama got into office, 16 trillion in debt , facing the largest tax hike in our country We have a do nothing congress and president that would rather go on the view than meet with our best ally in the east who is in NY . And you Democrats are worried about a tax return . You should be ashamed !

habsheaven
09-24-2012, 10:29 PM
The middle east is on fire , thousands of people in eastern countries in the streets shouting kill americans , this is new? it's been that way for 40 years. Our Ambassador is dead right Romney would have prevented this, btw OBL is dead too the economy is in the tank thanks to previous govts, gas is double what it was when Obama got into office Presidents do not determine gas prices, 16 trillion in debt inherited the worst recession since the great depression, facing the largest tax hike in our country what tax hike? We have a do nothing congress Congress is controlled by the GOP and president that would rather go on the view than meet with our best ally in the east who is in NY Israel's Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Defense Ehud Barak said the Obama White House has been the most supportive administration throughout the two countries' diplomatic relations on matters of Israeli security, And you Democrats are worried about a tax return. All he has to do is release the same number of returns that he requested his VP to release to him. What's the problem? You should be ashamed! You apparently know no shame.

See bolded.