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JustAlex
09-22-2012, 04:28 PM
On December 17, 1903 two brothers did something which up until this point in history was considered impossible, absolutely science fiction, a fantasy, nothing more than a wild dream. They became the first human beings to effectively FLY! 66 years later we made it to the MOON, and today any human can fly anywhere on this planet in a relatively short amount of time.





In 1999 the most advanced cellular phone could probably make a call to another human and play simple games like "snake"....that's about it. Today, your cell phone is a mini computer capable of doing amazing things which just 10 years ago was considered impossible.





If you had been born 200 years ago, you would probably live 30-35 years! If you had been born just 100 years ago, you would probably live about 40 -50 years. TODAY....you can live 80+ years!



What I have demonstrated here are three important ways that science has improved human life. It has given us the power to conquer the skies, it has made our lives much easier, and it has given us the chance to live longer.

In just a short 100 years human beings have advanced far more quickly and effective than any other period in the recorded history of human life, this is undeniable.


What has religion done for human kind in these last 100 years?

indexed
09-22-2012, 04:33 PM
well science and religion dont always have to be in opposition. Reigion is suppose to be about individualism not collectivism. Its about a personal relationship with god.

Wickabee
09-22-2012, 04:59 PM
Science and religion shouldn't be competing. I don't understand anyone who thinks otherwise.

JustAlex
09-22-2012, 05:23 PM
Science and religion shouldn't be competing. I don't understand anyone who thinks otherwise.
Lets remember that THE REASON why science has advanced so much in the last 100 years is because Religion SUPPRESSED science for centuries.

Think about what they did to Galileo, think about what religion would do to ANYONE that dared to speak against their beliefs.

Once science was allowed to be free, it has made the world a much better place in a very short amount of time, just imagine where we would be today if science was free two thousand years ago!

Meanwhile religion hasn't changed much.

I guess I can give Christianity a little bit of credit, they no longer burn "witches" and persecute those that don't believe in the same faith as them.

However they don't make life easier or better, they are the equivalent to a placebo.....

Wickabee
09-22-2012, 05:28 PM
Lets remember that THE REASON why science has advanced so much in the last 100 years is because Religion SUPPRESSED science for centuries.

Think about what they did to Galileo, think about what religion would do to ANYONE that dared to speak against their beliefs.

Once science was allowed to be free, it has made the world a much better place in a very short amount of time, just imagine where we would be today if science was free two thousand years ago!

Meanwhile religion hasn't changed much.

I guess I can give Christianity a little bit of credit, they no longer burn "witches" and persecute those that don't believe in the same faith as them.

However they don't make life easier or better, they are the equivalent to a placebo.....

Well, I can agree on that for religion, but NOT AT ALL for belief in God or Christ.

Both religion and science are just as guilty as the other for turning two methods of explaining the unknown into competing teams. I's really really sad and I hate it being perpetuated.

JustAlex
09-22-2012, 05:43 PM
Well, I can agree on that for religion, but NOT AT ALL for belief in God or Christ.
Which is why I remain Agnostic-Atheist about the subject on god.....I have left the door open.

However, the door is closed and TRIPLE locked on religion.


Both religion and science are just as guilty as the other for turning two methods of explaining the unknown into competing teams. I's really really sad and I hate it being perpetuated.
Science remains agnostic to just about everything.....including those things which it has tried to explain.

For example, "Gravity" is a "scientific fact", however, it is IMPOSSIBLE to truly know whether gravity actually exists.

The same could be said for every theory, law, principle, etc.


On the other hand, religion is GNOSTIC when it comes to our origins and the unknown.

They don't say....."well, we THINK there is a god".....NO!

They say......"We KNOW there is a god, and this is how it happened, and this is how he thinks, and this is how he wants us to act".


You can clearly see, there is a big difference.

Wickabee
09-22-2012, 05:50 PM
Which is why I remain Agnostic-Atheist about the subject on god.....I have left the door open.

However, the door is closed and TRIPLE locked on religion.


Science remains agnostic to just about everything.....including those things which it has tried to explain.

For example, "Gravity" is a "scientific fact", however, it is IMPOSSIBLE to truly know whether gravity actually exists.

The same could be said for every theory, law, principle, etc.


On the other hand, religion is GNOSTIC when it comes to our origins and the unknown.

They don't say....."well, we THINK there is a god".....NO!

They say......"We KNOW there is a god, and this is how it happened, and this is how he thinks, and this is how he wants us to act".


You can clearly see, there is a big difference.

On the other hand the scientific community seems to have a lot of atheists bent on disproving God...

JustAlex
09-22-2012, 06:00 PM
On the other hand the scientific community seems to have a lot of atheists bent on disproving God...
I'll give you that one.

And I wouldn't be wasting my time on that...

Wickabee
09-22-2012, 06:13 PM
I'll give you that one.

And I wouldn't be wasting my time on that...

Well, both sides are just as much to blame as the other for the fact that the two entities seem to be competing against one another.

You always say you don't support either party, but wish they could at least work together on things. That's how I feel on this subject.

brooaar
09-22-2012, 10:44 PM
On December 17, 1903 two brothers did something which up until this point in history was considered impossible, absolutely science fiction, a fantasy, nothing more than a wild dream. They became the first human beings to effectively FLY! 66 years later we made it to the MOON, and today any human can fly anywhere on this planet in a relatively short amount of time.





In 1999 the most advanced cellular phone could probably make a call to another human and play simple games like "snake"....that's about it. Today, your cell phone is a mini computer capable of doing amazing things which just 10 years ago was considered impossible.





If you had been born 200 years ago, you would probably live 30-35 years! If you had been born just 100 years ago, you would probably live about 40 -50 years. TODAY....you can live 80+ years!



What I have demonstrated here are three important ways that science has improved human life. It has given us the power to conquer the skies, it has made our lives much easier, and it has given us the chance to live longer.

In just a short 100 years human beings have advanced far more quickly and effective than any other period in the recorded history of human life, this is undeniable.


What has religion done for human kind in these last 100 years?

"Only about 20% of the current world’s population has a generally adequate standard of living. The other 80% live in conditions ranging from mild deprivation to severe deficiency." - populationmedia.org

A few religious groups have done a lot for the rest of "human kind" you forgot about.

Wickabee
09-23-2012, 02:31 AM
"Only about 20% of the current world’s population has a generally adequate standard of living. The other 80% live in conditions ranging from mild deprivation to severe deficiency." - populationmedia.org

A few religious groups have done a lot for the rest of "human kind" you forgot about.


Sure, just look at Canadian Residential schools. That was GREAT for humanity. The government and church getting together to steal children, put them in boarding schools and abuse them mercilessly. AWESOME!

shrewsbury
09-23-2012, 01:25 PM
alex, alex, alex,

you forgot a few things we can thank science for.

atomic bombs
nuclear weapons
tanks
machine guns
grenades
drones

so if we say how many people were killed by religion (without the scientific advancement of weapons), we would see more people have died do to science than religion any day in the last 100 years. even 9/11 could not have been done without the science of flight and jet fuels.

so just like religion, science can be used for good or bad.
mankind without religion perhaps would have no morals that stop us from killing, raping, our animal instinct would be unchecked..
mankind without science perhaps would be stuck in the stone age and our "freewill" maybe would not be so free.

i personally see no way to live without both and to hinder either is an attack on mankind. but we hinder religion and science through government, and find it to be ok.

habsheaven
09-23-2012, 03:21 PM
alex, alex, alex,

you forgot a few things we can thank science for.

atomic bombs
nuclear weapons
tanks
machine guns
grenades
drones

so if we say how many people were killed by religion (without the scientific advancement of weapons), we would see more people have died do to science than religion any day in the last 100 years. even 9/11 could not have been done without the science of flight and jet fuels.

so just like religion, science can be used for good or bad.
mankind without religion perhaps would have no morals that stop us from killing, raping, our animal instinct would be unchecked..
mankind without science perhaps would be stuck in the stone age and our "freewill" maybe would not be so free.

i personally see no way to live without both and to hinder either is an attack on mankind. but we hinder religion and science through government, and find it to be ok.

Other than the bolded text, I agree with you 100%

R. E. Lee
09-23-2012, 03:22 PM
Science is the Lords will!

JustAlex
09-23-2012, 05:07 PM
so just like religion, science can be used for good or bad.
YES....exactly!

And the track record for science is MUCH better than religion. Science has made our lives easier, it has made it longer, and it continues to improve the world.

Again....what does religion do?

Charities? So do non-religious organizations.

Religions divide the masses and although you are right that both can be used for good and bad.....more than often, religion is used for bad. Because it is dogmatic, because it doesn't allow for free thought, and because it imposes it's beliefs on others....at ANY cost.


mankind without religion perhaps would have no morals that stop us from killing, raping, our animal instinct would be unchecked..

This has been debunked many times....it's not worth discussing.

brooaar
09-23-2012, 05:42 PM
Sure, just look at Canadian Residential schools. That was GREAT for humanity. The government and church getting together to steal children, put them in boarding schools and abuse them mercilessly. AWESOME!

and a Christian organization providing an African village with clean drinking water is AWESOME too!

shrewsbury
09-23-2012, 06:33 PM
habs, that is why i said perhaps

alex, religion can bring hope when all else seems to fade, religion can ease the process of death, religion can give a foundation of doing good for yourself and others. religion can be a deep bound between people, an much more.

though i do not agree that religion only should be used for what i mentioned nor that religion is the only option, but it can be a great one, if the intent is good.

brooaar
09-23-2012, 07:33 PM
On December 17, 1903 two brothers did something which up until this point in history was considered impossible, absolutely science fiction, a fantasy, nothing more than a wild dream. They became the first human beings to effectively FLY! 66 years later we made it to the MOON, and today any human can fly anywhere on this planet in a relatively short amount of time.





In 1999 the most advanced cellular phone could probably make a call to another human and play simple games like "snake"....that's about it. Today, your cell phone is a mini computer capable of doing amazing things which just 10 years ago was considered impossible.





If you had been born 200 years ago, you would probably live 30-35 years! If you had been born just 100 years ago, you would probably live about 40 -50 years. TODAY....you can live 80+ years!



What I have demonstrated here are three important ways that science has improved human life. It has given us the power to conquer the skies, it has made our lives much easier, and it has given us the chance to live longer.

In just a short 100 years human beings have advanced far more quickly and effective than any other period in the recorded history of human life, this is undeniable.


What has religion done for human kind in these last 100 years?

you're obsessed and need to relax. :golf:

habsheaven
09-23-2012, 08:00 PM
Once again Jay, I agree with you. And yes, I did see you use the word "perhaps". That's why I left my comment so short without trying to argue the point. :)


habs, that is why i said perhaps

alex, religion can bring hope when all else seems to fade, religion can ease the process of death, religion can give a foundation of doing good for yourself and others. religion can be a deep bound between people, an much more.

though i do not agree that religion only should be used for what i mentioned nor that religion is the only option, but it can be a great one, if the intent is good.

JustAlex
09-23-2012, 08:55 PM
alex, religion can bring hope when all else seems to fade, religion can ease the process of death, religion can give a foundation of doing good for yourself and others. religion can be a deep bound between people, an much more..
Yes, you are absolutely right.

That's why I called religion a "Placebo".

When a loved one dies....OF COURSE it feels better to believe they are in a better place. OF COURSE it feels better to believe that one day you will reunite. OF COURSE if feels better to believe that you will live forever.

However, this isn't necessarily true.

In fact every bit of evidence suggests that humans live and die....that's it! There is no magical place, there is no "afterlife", you just die! I fully believe that when I die, I will cease to exist, the only thing left of me will be the memories of those I leave behind and eventually I will be forgotten, just like the BILLIONS that came before me.


And this is where everyone says that atheists have a bleak outlook on life.

Actually it's quite the opposite. Since I believe that I have ONE and ONLY one life, this means that I must treasure everyday like it's my last. I must enjoy this life to the fullest, it's the ONLY one that is guaranteed to us.


Seriously have you EVER thought about how absurd it is to live forever?

Tell me, what will you do after the first 1000 years in heaven? What about the next MILLION years? After that you have another TRILLION years.....and another Quadrillion years after that.

BUT WAIT....we're NOT DONE YET!

After all that you still have infinity time left over.

Seriously just think about these things once in awhile, I did and I saw how ridiculous it is to believe that one can actually live for eternity.

brooaar
09-23-2012, 09:01 PM
thanks for sharing, what does it have to do with the new iphone?:spy:

mrveggieman
09-24-2012, 10:40 AM
Why does science and religion have to compete with each other? Why can't they compliment each other? It's just like being in high school or college and saying that science is superior and why waste your time learning how to do accounting or learn how to write a 20 page research paper? Learn both so that you can be a well rounded individual. I believe in God and I also think that science when used correctly is a good thing. However just like science does not answer ever question that I have, from my years of reading both the bible and the koran both books have left me with many an unanswered question about God and life. Does it make me want to give up on God? Absolutely not, it actually makes me want to learn more.

JustAlex
09-24-2012, 07:09 PM
Why does science and religion have to compete with each other? Why can't they compliment each other?
I guess in a parallel universe that could happen, but not in this one.

Science and Religion are in opposition to each other because of the core that they stand for.

Science DEMANDS evidence and facts.

Religion demands faith and shuns ANYTHING which compromises it's beliefs such as Evolution, The Big Bang, abiogenesis, etc.


It's just like being in high school or college and saying that science is superior and why waste your time learning how to do accounting or learn how to write a 20 page research paper? Learn both so that you can be a well rounded individual.
With all respect Veggie.....what can religion teach us?

How to be a good person?

How to live a virtuous life?

I truly believe that those things are something we naturally learn as we go through life.


However just like science does not answer ever question that I have, from my years of reading both the bible and the koran both books have left me with many an unanswered question about God and life. Does it make me want to give up on God? Absolutely not, it actually makes me want to learn more.
I don't think that when I became an atheist I gave up on god......I simply stopped believing in something which I couldn't justify.

That is NOT to say that I'm sure that God doesn't exists, in fact if he does exists I'll be more than happy to believe in him.

However, this thread is not Science vs. God.....it is Science vs. Religion.

I really have no problems with God....it's Religion I can't accept.

Wickabee
09-24-2012, 08:03 PM
Science DEMANDS evidence and facts.


In theory this is true. In practice, however, there are so many scientists who are hellbent on disproving God's existence that they could inadvertently prove God to be real and still never believe it. "Science" is better than "Religion" but not by much.

shrewsbury
09-24-2012, 10:46 PM
but the key is how the facts are interpreted

mrveggieman
09-25-2012, 09:27 AM
I guess in a parallel universe that could happen, but not in this one.

Science and Religion are in opposition to each other because of the core that they stand for.

Science DEMANDS evidence and facts.

Religion demands faith and shuns ANYTHING which compromises it's beliefs such as Evolution, The Big Bang, abiogenesis, etc.


[/COLOR]With all respect Veggie.....what can religion teach us?

How to be a good person?

How to live a virtuous life?

I truly believe that those things are something we naturally learn as we go through life.


[/COLOR]I don't think that when I became an atheist I gave up on god......I simply stopped believing in something which I couldn't justify.

That is NOT to say that I'm sure that God doesn't exists, in fact if he does exists I'll be more than happy to believe in him.

However, this thread is not Science vs. God.....it is Science vs. Religion.

I really have no problems with God....it's Religion I can't accept.

You actually have a point. I love God but I hate religious fanatics with a passion. Regardless of their chosen religion they make us all look like fools. Instead of as believers we check the religious fanatics and tell them they are making it bad for all of us religious people simply become bigger fanboys by saying that fanatics from a competing religion are wrong, following a false religion, etc but when a fanitic from their own religion does something stupid they make every excuse from them such as the devil made them do it, they were depressed and if that dosen't work they simply say that they are not a real fill in the blank of your favorite religion. No one can tell me how can you clown another religion when they do the exact same things that you do but just have a different terminology. On the cool religion does suck at times.

Star_Cards
09-25-2012, 11:33 AM
I got to this thread late, but I don't think science and religion are versus each other that much. Science is a fact based, open minded, study that is ever changing and having new things discovered in many different facets. Religion is a faith based ideal that is interpreted by each individual person. It's more of an opinions than a set of rules.

religion does have some benefits to people. It has done a lot of harm as well, but I don't see it as a complete negative. Although the negatives are rather off putting for me.

theonedru
09-26-2012, 04:13 AM
[LIST]
What has religion done for human kind in these last 100 years?

Inspired countless millions of people to become better people,

Helped the less fortunate and those in a time of need.

Taught compassion

gave an untold many the power to live another day in hope tomorrow will be better than today.

religion can help provide those with what science cant. and sometimes what it can provide is a hell of a lot more meaningful to the world. You n here constantly bickering about how evil and outdated religion is because you choose to ignore the small things it can provide. Where science is the cold chill that comes through your window late at night or the hot sun that burns during the day, religion is the blanket that keeps you warm and fuzzy at night or the fan/air conditioning that makes things bearable. Open up your eyes and quit looking at everything as so concrete. Remember it was not so long ago that science said the world was flat, the heavens went around the earth and you could cure people by cutting and bleeding them. Not everything including your science is perfect.

habsheaven
09-26-2012, 08:58 AM
Inspired countless millions of people to become better people,

Helped the less fortunate and those in a time of need.

Taught compassion

gave an untold many the power to live another day in hope tomorrow will be better than today.

religion can help provide those with what science cant. and sometimes what it can provide is a hell of a lot more meaningful to the world. You n here constantly bickering about how evil and outdated religion is because you choose to ignore the small things it can provide. Where science is the cold chill that comes through your window late at night or the hot sun that burns during the day, religion is the blanket that keeps you warm and fuzzy at night or the fan/air conditioning that makes things bearable. Open up your eyes and quit looking at everything as so concrete. Remember it was not so long ago that science said the world was flat, the heavens went around the earth and you could cure people by cutting and bleeding them. Not everything including your science is perfect.

I was getting what you were saying until you reached your criticisms of early science. That was not testable, verifiable science as we understand science today (the science Alex is speaking of), so comparing religion to it is ridiculous. And although religion does provide all of those things you mentioned, so to do many other avenues like family, spirituality and community. In scientific terms, I liken religion to a placebo; occassionally it works, but in essence it is the mind doing all the healing.

theonedru
09-26-2012, 07:08 PM
I was getting what you were saying until you reached your criticisms of early science. That was not testable, verifiable science as we understand science today (the science Alex is speaking of), so comparing religion to it is ridiculous. And although religion does provide all of those things you mentioned, so to do many other avenues like family, spirituality and community. In scientific terms, I liken religion to a placebo; occassionally it works, but in essence it is the mind doing all the healing.

i was trying to make the point that science is not perfect and doesn't know all the answers. It is in a constant state of flux and what is accepted as science fact today may be science mumbo jumbo tomorrow. It is full of mistakes and failures. yes science is great and amazing but a lot of science outs out should be taken with a grain of salt, much like religion.