PDA

View Full Version : 83 year old woman shot by cop like an animal



mrveggieman
09-26-2012, 11:00 AM
That cop is a gutless coward. This exactly why people hate cops.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/25/delma-towler-dead-shot-police-83-year-old_n_1913676.html

shrewsbury
09-26-2012, 11:11 AM
so there was a 911 hang up, the police show up and here gunfire from the house, a person with the gun exits the house, police order them to drop weapon, they turn and point gun at police and they are shot.

first off how does this relate to any animal killing?

how is anyone a gutless coward?

Wickabee
09-26-2012, 12:09 PM
Shrew, if that is the case you're right. However, it doesn't quite add up to me. Police showed up (whether she thought the were police or robbers) so she fired shots inside the house?
That makes no sense right there.

Star_Cards
09-26-2012, 12:52 PM
First off I will say that this is a horrific story. Very sad indeed. However, I can see how this happened after reading the story. It seems like an instance of a few different unfortunate happenings. The fact that she seems to not been able to hear the officer led to most of this taking place. I can't imagine this happening to me or my family all because she didn't have in her hearing ad.

That said, veggie, how can you sit there and say that this is why people hate cops or agree that she was gunned down like an animal. It's easy for people to judge a situation in hindsight. Put yourself in the place of the officer. He hear's gun shots and sees a person in the dark with a gun or something he thinks could be a gun (good assumption if he heard shots) when going to a 911 hang up. Then when he gets to the person they don't put down their weapon and they point it at him. What do you think a trained police officer would do? It's not like they knew anything about this lady... if she was old... if she lived there... if she needed hearing aids and didn't have them in... all of that only comes to light after the fact. At the time he hears shots and sees a person with a gun and that person points the gun at him. Most people would end up doing what he did. He had no way of knowing and nor did she. I'd bet that had he not shot her we'd be reading a story about how she shot and killed an officer which would be still just as tragic.

I really don't see how you can just see this and say, that's why people hate cops... like he hunted her down for sport or something.

definitely very unfortunate that she lost her life because of something like this.

Star_Cards
09-26-2012, 12:53 PM
Shrew, if that is the case you're right. However, it doesn't quite add up to me. Police showed up (whether she thought the were police or robbers) so she fired shots inside the house?
That makes no sense right there.

I agree that is weird, but they will be able to prove if there were shots from her weapon inside the house. even if she didn't fire inside the house and she had her gun pointed at him when he caught up to her I still don't see what else the officer would have done but shoot.

Wickabee
09-26-2012, 01:15 PM
I agree that is weird, but they will be able to prove if there were shots from her weapon inside the house. even if she didn't fire inside the house and she had her gun pointed at him when he caught up to her I still don't see what else the officer would have done but shoot.

Tell me how much of this makes sense (and I realize not everything people do makes sense, but humour me)
911 Hangup
Cops show up
Woman (possibly thinking their robbers) grabs a gun and fires several times
Woman sneaks out the backdoor to go somewhere else
Police tell her to stop (presumably identifying themselves as police)
Woman turns and aims at cops
Cops shoot and kill woman

Something just doesn't seem right with that story.

habsheaven
09-26-2012, 01:53 PM
It makes perfect sense to me. 911 hangup. Cops have to investigate. Old, deaf, visually-impaired lady panics and fires shots at the door from the safety of her home. Cops escalate their response. Old lady realizes they are not leaving and tries to escape to the safety of her sister's house. Cops follow. Scared, confused, old lady aims the gun at her would be attackers. Cops do what they are trained to do and defend themselves.

That's the price people can pay when they escalate a situation by introducing a firearm into the picture.


Tell me how much of this makes sense (and I realize not everything people do makes sense, but humour me)
911 Hangup
Cops show up
Woman (possibly thinking their robbers) grabs a gun and fires several times
Woman sneaks out the backdoor to go somewhere else
Police tell her to stop (presumably identifying themselves as police)
Woman turns and aims at cops
Cops shoot and kill woman

Something just doesn't seem right with that story.

Star_Cards
09-26-2012, 02:15 PM
Tell me how much of this makes sense (and I realize not everything people do makes sense, but humour me)
911 Hangup
Cops show up
Woman (possibly thinking their robbers) grabs a gun and fires several times
Woman sneaks out the backdoor to go somewhere else
Police tell her to stop (presumably identifying themselves as police)
Woman turns and aims at cops
Cops shoot and kill woman

Something just doesn't seem right with that story.

tell me what seems weird about it. I'm not sure how hard the officer was banging on the board as it wasn't in the article, but it does seem weird to fire a weapon if someone just knocks on the door. We can't really assume what would have caused her to fire shots. Like I said, they will be able to find out if the gun was fired by her. As for assuming why... there could be a ton of reason. Maybe she thought he was a robber (maybe she called 911 because she was hearing noises and thought the officer was said robber). Maybe she was going to leave and dropped the gun or accidentally pulled the trigger and it went off. An investigation should probably clear all of that up. Maybe it wasn't shot and the officer heard something like it (less likely).

I will say that I'd bet that officers aren't trained to take an elderly women pointing a gun at them as less of a threat than a younger, stronger person pointing a gun at them.

Star_Cards
09-26-2012, 02:15 PM
It makes perfect sense to me. 911 hangup. Cops have to investigate. Old, deaf, visually-impaired lady panics and fires shots at the door from the safety of her home. Cops escalate their response. Old lady realizes they are not leaving and tries to escape to the safety of her sister's house. Cops follow. Scared, confused, old lady aims the gun at her would be attackers. Cops do what they are trained to do and defend themselves.

That's the price people can pay when they escalate a situation by introducing a firearm into the picture.

^ what he said.

mrveggieman
09-26-2012, 02:19 PM
I'm sorry but the story just dosen't add up to me. Police are infamous for committing crimes against the public and covering them up. In my book if a cop does something stupid he is guilty until proven innocent.

shrewsbury
09-26-2012, 02:36 PM
seems to me that you think everyone is guilty until proven innocence, if they are rich or even partial white or a cop

examples: Trayvon Martin case, Romney's taxes, and now this

mrveggieman
09-26-2012, 02:40 PM
seems to me that you think everyone is guilty until proven innocence, if they are rich or even partial white or a cop

examples: Trayvon Martin case, Romney's taxes, and now this


Obama is half white as well as richer than most if not all people on SCF :confused0068:but I don't believe the lies about his bc, college etc. However with groups like the police, republican party, faux news etc who do no care for women or minorities, why should I belive anything that they say?

Wickabee
09-26-2012, 02:43 PM
I'm half with you guys, half with veggie. SOmething about this just says cover-up. I can't explain or describe what it is, but something is reminding me of two Canadian cases (Robert Dzekanski, Buddy Tavares) and how things were explained afterwards in those. I don't know, I could be wrong, but something's off.

mrveggieman
09-26-2012, 02:45 PM
I'm half with you guys, half with veggie. SOmething about this just says cover-up. I can't explain or describe what it is, but something is reminding me of two Canadian cases (Robert Dzekanski, Buddy Tavares) and how things were explained afterwards in those. I don't know, I could be wrong, but something's off.

Exactly. All these people who think that cops can do no wrong would not be singing the same tune if it were their mother or grandmother.

Wickabee
09-26-2012, 02:51 PM
Exactly. All these people who think that cops can do no wrong would not be singing the same tune if it were their mother or grandmother.

I don't know about that, and the official explanation sounds all well and good. There's just an intangible there that makes me think there's more (or less) to the story.

habsheaven
09-26-2012, 04:19 PM
The first question I ask myself in a case like this is: Why would the police shoot an elderly lady for no good reason? When I cannot come up with a satisfactory answer to that, I make an assumption that they then must have had a good reason. To speculate any other conclusion is ridiculous. As to why and how that good reason occurred; I would look at the key factors, one of which has to be the lady's lack of hearing and eyesight.

It boggles my mind how some people always look for evil even when a situation appears to just be an unfortunate set of circumstances culminating in a death.

habsheaven
09-26-2012, 04:22 PM
Exactly. All these people who think that cops can do no wrong would not be singing the same tune if it were their mother or grandmother.

It wouldn't be my mother or grandmother because they wouldn't be foolish enough to wield a firearm when they clearly are missing some of her faculties.

Wickabee
09-26-2012, 04:25 PM
The first question I ask myself in a case like this is: Why would the police shoot an elderly lady for no good reason

Why would a policeman kick a man who is on his hands and knees, following orders from police an presenting no threat in the face?
I can come up with no reason whatsoever, so this must never have happened, then?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-IDF9hzvug

Why would 4 policemen tazer a jabbering Polish man in an airport before getting a translator to figure out what he was saying?
I can't think of a reason, so Robert Dziekanski must still be alive, right?

Star_Cards
09-26-2012, 04:26 PM
I'm sorry but the story just dosen't add up to me. Police are infamous for committing crimes against the public and covering them up. In my book if a cop does something stupid he is guilty until proven innocent.

okay, since you are assuming, what are some of your assumptions about what a police officer would do to kill an old lady at a 911 run that he's making?

What did he do stupid if the woman was pointing a gun at him and didn't drop it?

Star_Cards
09-26-2012, 04:36 PM
Exactly. All these people who think that cops can do no wrong would not be singing the same tune if it were their mother or grandmother.

I'm in no way saying that all police officers do no wrong. Of course there are bad cops, but there are a lot of good ones too. You're the one that seems unable to recognize that. I never said that all cops are good and never will. I do however, look at each incident on it's own since they are all different and involve different people.

If it were my grandmother, yes I would want an investigation and more than likely from an outside source from that of the police and yes it would be very difficult to look at this incident the same as an outsider. Actually, people who have no emotional connection typically look at a situation more rationally than someone who has an emotional attachment. My grandmother didn't have a gun so it's hard for me to put myself in the place of the family. Even if she did it would be hard unless you actually do go through something like this. I will tell you that if my grandmother was pointing a gun at a police officer I wouldn't be surprised that she may have been shot. I'm not saying that I would want answer and I'm not saying that those answers would be satisfactory. Without any more info than what was in the article, it's hard for me to think it was anything more than a tragic accident brought on by multiple very flukish events.

mrveggieman
09-26-2012, 04:49 PM
Check out the story of Kathryn Johnson. She was a elderly woman who lived in Atlanta who was old enough to be most of our grandmother or great grandmother. One night some undercover cops ran up in her house in plain clothes w/o knocking or identifying themselves as cops. Ms Johnson not recognizing any of the intruders as cops attemped to defend her home. She was murdered by those pigs in cold blood. Those cowards even tried to plant evidence against her. Thankfully these dirty pigs were convicted and rec'd various jail sentences. It makes me sick that these monsters can go around preying on children and the elderly and people actually defend them. That is the lowest scum of the earth and deserves to rot in the hottest place in hell.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathryn_Johnston_shooting

Wickabee
09-26-2012, 05:01 PM
I'm in no way saying that all police officers do no wrong. Of course there are bad cops, but there are a lot of good ones too. You're the one that seems unable to recognize that. I never said that all cops are good and never will. I do however, look at each incident on it's own since they are all different and involve different people.

When something like this arises, do you question it like myself and veggie? Or do you "question it" (with police are always in the right) as Habs described?

MattDMC
09-26-2012, 05:10 PM
I normally don't chime in on this side of the forums but just wanted to give my $.02.

I don't see the problem with this story assuming what is given is the truth, if she pointed a gun at the cops the cops had every right to shoot regardless of her age. If they didn't shoot for all we know she could have shot and then we'd have a dead Officer.

Veggie I've noticed that normally the threads you start are usually about police brutality and other bad stories regarding the police, Why the hate towards police? Did you have a bad run in with an officer in the past and feel you have to bring up every police mishap to make yourself feel better? If you truly believe that all police officers are bad and go around killing 83 year olds for no reason you are sorely mistaking but I may understand why. Todays media is based off ratings and police brutality brings in views, thats why you hear every day about bad cops but you never hear when the cops do something good. If the media actually focused on the good you would see that the number of police who follow and protect the law far out number the police that are above the law and do as they please with no regard.

One day you may be in trouble and need these "pigs" to come save you, maybe you'll see them differently then.

Wickabee
09-26-2012, 05:17 PM
One day you may be in trouble and need these "pigs" to come save you, maybe you'll see them differently then.

To be perfectly fair, the only times I see veg use the word "pigs" in reference to police is in reference to stories above where, due to their own individual actions, the officers in question deserve to be called every name in the book.

MattDMC
09-26-2012, 05:19 PM
To be perfectly fair, the only times I see veg use the word "pigs" in reference to police is in reference to stories above where, due to their own individual actions, the officers in question deserve to be called every name in the book.

Okay I may have been a little out of line there but you still get the message.

Wickabee
09-26-2012, 05:34 PM
Okay I may have been a little out of line there but you still get the message.

Absolutely, and I agree with you for the most part. My problem with this is the "story" (which would be acceptable if true) just has an element to it, which I can't describe, that reminds me of other "official explanations" which turned out to be crap.

In the case of Robert Dziekanski. He was drunk, dehydrated and confused. He spoke only Polish, no English, and somehow wound up by himself in a room with nothing but 4 chairs and a desk somewhere in Vancouver International Airport. He had no idea what to do, how to get through customs, etc, etc. He posed no immediate (but potential) threat to anyone and all civilians present had figured out that a translator was needed for this gentleman. They even narrowed it down to Russian or some eastern European language. Someone called for the police to come in. Presumably, those police got the whole story as known at the time, which was man is freaking out, needs a translator.
4 officers walked in, saw a man by himself jabbering and throwing chairs. They walked into the room he was in, at which point he calms down, even putting his hands up in surrender fashion. They then circled him in execution fashion and all tazered him simultaneously...all 4 of them.
After they killed him, all 4 claimed to be fearing for their lives because he had grabbed a stapler...



...



I'll give that a moment to sink in...



Fortunately, someone caught the whole thing on tape, so those officers were brought to justice, right? Wrong.
The RCMP spin machine (which ever department around has a version of) found them to be completely blameless in this man's death. Let's recap:
Man who doesn't speak the local language gets confused and freaks out, harming no one and causing little-to-no damage.
Police show up.
Man sees uniform and calms down, putting his hands up in surrender fashion.
Officers line up around him and tazer him.
Man dies.
Officers are innocent of any wrongdoing.

And people wonder why I don't immediately trust an officer in uniform? Robert Dziekanski did, and now he's dead. I can see absolutely no reason for those officers taking the course of action they did, so by Habs' logic, it must never have happened...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPe_hf7aBXM

Hmm...
As much as I disagree with hating the police, I disagree with trusting them completely because they're in uniform.

MattDMC
09-26-2012, 05:43 PM
Absolutely, and I agree with you for the most part. My problem with this is the "story" (which would be acceptable if true) just has an element to it, which I can't describe, that reminds me of other "official explanations" which turned out to be crap.

In the case of Robert Dziekanski. He was drunk, dehydrated and confused. He spoke only Polish, no English, and somehow wound up by himself in a room with nothing but 4 chairs and a desk somewhere in Vancouver International Airport. He had no idea what to do, how to get through customs, etc, etc. He posed no immediate (but potential) threat to anyone and all civilians present had figured out that a translator was needed for this gentleman. They even narrowed it down to Russian or some eastern European language. Someone called for the police to come in. Presumably, those police got the whole story as known at the time, which was man is freaking out, needs a translator.
4 officers walked in, saw a man by himself jabbering and throwing chairs. They walked into the room he was in, at which point he calms down, even putting his hands up in surrender fashion. They then circled him in execution fashion and all tazered him simultaneously...all 4 of them.
After they killed him, all 4 claimed to be fearing for their lives because he had grabbed a stapler...



...



I'll give that a moment to sink in...



Fortunately, someone caught the whole thing on tape, so those officers were brought to justice, right? Wrong.
The RCMP spin machine (which ever department around has a version of) found them to be completely blameless in this man's death. Let's recap:
Man who doesn't speak the local language gets confused and freaks out, harming no one and causing little-to-no damage.
Police show up.
Man sees uniform and calms down, putting his hands up in surrender fashion.
Officers line up around him and tazer him.
Man dies.
Officers are innocent of any wrongdoing.

And people wonder why I don't immediately trust an officer in uniform? Robert Dziekanski did, and now he's dead. I can see absolutely no reason for those officers taking the course of action they did, so by Habs' logic, it must never have happened...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPe_hf7aBXM

Hmm...
As much as I disagree with hating the police, I disagree with trusting them completely because they're in uniform.


I agree that was completely wrong what those cops did and they should have been punished to the fullest extent of the law.

However I never said I or anybody should trust the cops completely, I said that the amount of good cops vastly outnumber the amount of bad cops but with the way todays media coverage is nobody would ever realize that when all they talk about is police brutality and don't give the good hard working cops light of day.

The reason I posted what I did is because Veggie is exactly like todays media, he only posts about the police when they mess up or do something wrong as if he is completely biased towards anybody who has ever worn a badge. At least thats what I would assume by all of his corrupt police posts and that he has never once said one thing positive towards a cop.

Wickabee
09-26-2012, 05:56 PM
Surprisingly, many did not. Remember, that man was drunk (by a lot of peoples' logic, that immediately meant he deserved whatever he got) <br />
<br />
<br />
No argument here. I know that the media only reports the...

shrewsbury
09-26-2012, 06:40 PM
However with groups like the police, republican party, faux news etc who do no care for women or minorities, why should I belive anything that they say?

that is the worst statement I have ever heard. You have no clue on what goes on in the real world, and I am shamed that no one else called you out on this.
You are entitled to your opinions, but an opinion like that is one I do not respect at all.
It is statements like this and accusations like this, that have stopped all of us from uniting, it is not the our actions but your assumptions that hinder us all.



My father, who is dead by the way, was a cop, and I am a republican and white. I guarantee I have more respect and have done more for women and minorities that most on here. I not only work for a non profit in a liberal town, but the town is famous for its diversity and its gay movement. Ask any gay about Oberlin Ohio and look up the stats on Oberlin and the role we played and play in civil rights and the gay movement.
and I not only interact with everyone in town, but go out of my way to help anyone, and do nearly every single day. The elderly, black, gay, and low income community stop me at the gas station, super market, or drugstore just to talk to me because of the mutual respect we have for each other. they are my friends, my neighbors, and my townsfolk.

I can only say, thank God (Jesus) that I have moved beyond this nonsense in my lifetime, if I achieve nothing else, this will certainly do to make my life be worth living.

theonedru
09-26-2012, 07:03 PM
Ok veggie I am going to rant here. A lot of my family are in the police profession and everything you say is an insult to them. My uncle had his head blown off defending someones business from thieves so he must be a bloody horrible person to give his life for someones elses meager possessions? I have other members shot stabbed, hit by cars, and assaulted a million different ways and times helping others .. And they are bad for doing so? Your view of police is so disgustingly jaded that its unbelievable someone would actually stoop to think like that. a select few are not the majority why you refuse to see that is beyond me. I guess you are just not as open minded and accepted of things as i believed. Which is just plain sad...... maybe you need to get out and see the world around you more and open your eyes and mind to the true realities of life in Canada and the USA.

Wickabee
09-26-2012, 07:06 PM
Ok veggie I am going to rant here. A lot of my family are in the police profession and everything you say is an insult to them. My uncle had his head blown off defending someones business from thieves so he must be a bloody horrible person to give his life for someones elses meager possessions? I have other members shot stabbed, hit by cars, and assaulted a million different ways and times helping others .. And they are bad for doing so? Your view of police is so disgustingly jaded that its unbelievable someone would actually stoop to think like that. a select few are not the majority why you refuse to see that is beyond me. I guess you are just not as open minded and accepted of things as i believed. Which is just plain sad...... maybe you need to get out and see the world around you more and open your eyes and mind to the true realities of life in Canada and the USA.

Instead of ranting, maybe think.
What would give veg the idea of police that he has?
If it was the multitude of examples of corrupt and abusive police, should you not be angry at THOSE police officers for making the entire force look bad?


No, I suppose it's easier to just get mad at the result, not the cause. Someone shoots you, get mad at the bullet. That sort of thing.

Zimbow
09-26-2012, 09:18 PM
It makes perfect sense to me. 911 hangup. Cops have to investigate. Old, deaf, visually-impaired lady panics and fires shots at the door from the safety of her home. Cops escalate their response. Old lady realizes they are not leaving and tries to escape to the safety of her sister's house. Cops follow. Scared, confused, old lady aims the gun at her would be attackers. Cops do what they are trained to do and defend themselves.

That's the price people can pay when they escalate a situation by introducing a firearm into the picture.


+1

habsheaven
09-26-2012, 09:20 PM
wickabee, neither of the videos you showed, show the cops doing anything wrong.

In the first video the suspect is only on his knees. Considering the circumstances of the situation (they knew he was armed) he still posed a possible threat. He easily could have fired a weapon from that postion. We all know the police want the suspect on their stomach on the the ground. The kick by the officer may look like an over-reaction but it was strong and quick. Exactly what I want and expect from my law enforcement.

You spin the second video rather well. The man involved clearly is destroying property, he clearly is drunk and unruly. The RCMP are not there to babysit until a translator can arrive (which btw would have been useless since they mistook polish for russian). They are there to maintain order and take control of the situation. You describe their approach of the man in a sinister way. The fact the man positioned his back against a wall is not indicitive of surrender. It's indicitive of standing your ground. You also say they all fired simultaneously. I did not see that. I saw the man struggling and agitated on the floor, even after being tazed. Those officers received no punishment because they did nothing wrong.

You are going to have to come up with a more blatant incident of wrong-doing (like veggie's last story) if you are going to quibble with my take on this story.

habsheaven
09-26-2012, 09:29 PM
Obama is half white as well as richer than most if not all people on SCF :confused0068:but I don't believe the lies about his bc, college etc. However with groups like the police, republican party, faux news etc who do no care for women or minorities, why should I belive anything that they say?

Jay, to be honest I only read the first half of veggie's response in this post. I agree 110% with you. Veggie's rhetoric on this issue is deplorable.

habsheaven
09-26-2012, 09:32 PM
I will add. I do not have any law enforcement in my family, but I did bowl in a league full of them for many years when I was younger. Out of 30 or 40 men, might have had 2 that were jerks and morally suspect. The rest of them were among the finest community members you would find.

duwal
09-26-2012, 09:46 PM
Ok veggie I am going to rant here. A lot of my family are in the police profession and everything you say is an insult to them. My uncle had his head blown off defending someones business from thieves so he must be a bloody horrible person to give his life for someones elses meager possessions? I have other members shot stabbed, hit by cars, and assaulted a million different ways and times helping others .. And they are bad for doing so? Your view of police is so disgustingly jaded that its unbelievable someone would actually stoop to think like that. a select few are not the majority why you refuse to see that is beyond me. I guess you are just not as open minded and accepted of things as i believed. Which is just plain sad...... maybe you need to get out and see the world around you more and open your eyes and mind to the true realities of life in Canada and the USA.

what I don't like is he seems to try and put all police officers into the same bubble. The Kathryn Jackson example he had to pull out from 2006. There are cops that do wrong acts that should be punished and really they are the only stories involving police for the most part that we hear about because lets face it that will always make the job over the tons of other officers that do their job properly and with integrity and morality. He pulls out all of these isolated incidents when really any kind of action by police that could be questionable is so small of a percentage of a percentage. 911 across the states averages around 225-240 million calls a year, there are also the amount of traffic stops which probably are around that same total. But it's just easier I guess to hear one example and say that police officers are 'pigs' in general

Wickabee
09-26-2012, 10:38 PM
cwickabee, neither of the videos you showed, show the cops doing anything wrong.[/quote]
Wow. I didn't realize your head was THAT far in the sand.


In the first video the suspect is only on his knees. Considering the circumstances of the situation (they knew he was armed) he still posed a possible threat. He easily could have fired a weapon from that postion. We all know the police want the suspect on their stomach on the the ground. The kick by the officer may look like an over-reaction but it was strong and quick. Exactly what I want and expect from my law enforcement.]/quote]
They knew he was armed with a SHOTGUN. Tell me where you see the potential for him to grab his SHOTGUN (which they knew was behind his seat, and which was legally owned). He was complying with orders, while being arrested for a non-crime, and got a boot in the face for it. Nothing wrong there!

You spin the second video rather well. The man involved clearly is destroying property, he clearly is drunk and unruly. The RCMP are[QUOTE=habsheaven;12089481] not there to babysit until a translator can arrive (which btw would have been useless since they mistook polish for russian). They are there to maintain order and take control of the situation. You describe their approach of the man in a sinister way. The fact the man positioned his back against a wall is not indicitive of surrender. It's indicitive of standing your ground. You also say they all fired simultaneously. I did not see that. I saw the man struggling and agitated on the floor, even after being tazed. Those officers received no punishment because they did nothing wrong.
Habs, he needed a translator not a death sentence. I cannot think of a single situation where FOUR police officers would need to use FOUR tazers on the same man. He never once struggled with police, he was reacting to the thousands upon thousands of electric volts pulsing through his body as he died.


You are going to have to come up with a more blatant incident of wrong-doing (like veggie's last story) if you are going to quibble with my take on this story.
This post5 of your tells me you have no compassion whatsoever and have been brainwashed to believe the police can do no wrong. You will never understand that these people, especially the guy who got kicked, did no real wrong. The guy in the airport, the thing that bothers me most there is that FOUR officers figured they couldn't take down one guy (with hios arms in the air) without tazering and killing him? Without even TRYING something else?

Don't reply, you'll just blindly follow your boys in blue. You got some friends? They tell you where the roadblocks are before you leave the party? I'm guessing, probably.

Wickabee
09-26-2012, 10:39 PM
Hitting a guy with 4 tazers at once, killing him and kicking a man in the face while he's down are good thing according to Habs folks. Remember this if you ever meet him. It's how he likes folks to say hello.

Right, Habs?

habsheaven
09-26-2012, 10:56 PM
Hitting a guy with 4 tazers at once, killing him and kicking a man in the face while he's down are good thing according to Habs folks. Remember this if you ever meet him. It's how he likes folks to say hello.

Right, Habs?

Your attempt at humour or sarcasm fails miserably. I explained why I thought the officer kicked the suspect. Yes, they knew he had a shotgun. That means he can't have another weapon hidden on him? If you do not want to address it. That's fine. Spin it however you want, my head isn't buried in the sand but your's certainly may be. I also already explained my position on the RCMP video. What do you think the translator speaking russian was going to achieve? Authorities have a hard enough time controlling drunks that speak the same language. Not sure what the language gap had to do with him trashing the place. Those officers could not be certain what he was on, what his mental state was, or anything else. Their job, AGAIN, is to take control of the situation. No one, RCMP or otherwise, thought the man was going to die. Your rhetoric in describing the video; downplaying the man's actions and magnifying the RCMP's shows your bias.

Those videos both tell a story. Unfortunately you need a translator to interpret them.

Edit: As for the dig about friends telling me about roadblocks. Once again, you couldn't be further from the truth. I do not drive. I have no need for a heads up on the roads. Want to try attacking my reasoning instead of my person now?

theonedru
09-27-2012, 12:28 AM
Hitting a guy with 4 tazers at once, killing him and kicking a man in the face while he's down are good thing according to Habs folks. Remember this if you ever meet him. It's how he likes folks to say hello.

Right, Habs?

You miss the point of it all that not all cops are evil like the orig poster likes to say, sure they go overboard, cross the line and do bad things but that doesn't mean they all do it

R. E. Lee
09-27-2012, 01:05 AM
No one knows what happened yet, so don't jump to conclusions.

Wickabee
09-27-2012, 01:30 AM
Your attempt at humour or sarcasm fails miserably. I explained why I thought the officer kicked the suspect. Yes, they knew he had a shotgun. That means he can't have another weapon hidden on him? If you do not want to address it. That's fine. Spin it however you want, my head isn't buried in the sand but your's certainly may be. I also already explained my position on the RCMP video. What do you think the translator speaking russian was going to achieve? Authorities have a hard enough time controlling drunks that speak the same language. Not sure what the language gap had to do with him trashing the place. Those officers could not be certain what he was on, what his mental state was, or anything else. Their job, AGAIN, is to take control of the situation. No one, RCMP or otherwise, thought the man was going to die. Your rhetoric in describing the video; downplaying the man's actions and magnifying the RCMP's shows your bias.

Those videos both tell a story. Unfortunately you need a translator to interpret them.

Edit: As for the dig about friends telling me about roadblocks. Once again, you couldn't be further from the truth. I do not drive. I have no need for a heads up on the roads. Want to try attacking my reasoning instead of my person now?

If you say so Habs. The man was complying and he got kicked. I don't know how that's okay. There's no excuse for it. And for the record that cop who did the kicking has been investigated numerous times on similar incidents.

I can't believe you think that's okay. There is no threat. Plain and simple.

Wickabee
09-27-2012, 01:30 AM
You miss the point of it all that not all cops are evil like the orig poster likes to say, sure they go overboard, cross the line and do bad things but that doesn't mean they all do it

How is it me who's missing the point when you're telling me I said something I never in my life have?

habsheaven
09-27-2012, 09:15 AM
If you say so Habs. The man was complying and he got kicked. I don't know how that's okay. There's no excuse for it. And for the record that cop who did the kicking has been investigated numerous times on similar incidents.

I can't believe you think that's okay. There is no threat. Plain and simple.

I started to reply to this and then thought I better go look at that video again. You are RIGHT, on second look it does appear that he was in the process of going all the way down on the ground where he would have been no threat. When I watch it the first time (it may have been a lag in the video) it appeared that he was only kneeling when he was kicked. I retract all my comments about this guy. He was over-aggressive and should have received a reprimand at the least.

shrewsbury
09-27-2012, 09:45 AM
how about the hundreds of officers who die each year protecting and serving?

there are bad cops, there are bad whites, bad rich people, bad republicans, and even bad cashiers, but not everyone of them is bad.

why is ok to stereo type cops but not anyone else? stereotyping just shows ignorance. here is a classic example of ignorance and stereotyping;

Blacks make up the majority in prison, so all blacks are criminals.

That statement is stereotyping and ignorant, racist, and untrue.

but, it is no different than saying republicans and cops don't care about women and minorities. and when you consider there are women and minorities in the police force, it is even more ignorant.
Oberlin has around 12 officers, 2 black and 3 women, and one hispanic, that means half of the police in my town are minorities or women.

mrveggieman
09-27-2012, 10:27 AM
Thanks for keeping this thread up. I have to step in and clarify a few things. First of all my daddy (RIP) was a retired federal police officer. I have a cousin who is a retired police officer in...

shrewsbury
09-27-2012, 12:21 PM
yea, the police should just allow anyone to point a gun in their direction.

and once again you description is so far off it is ridiculous.


reponse to calling that cop who savagely murdered that elderly woman a pig you are right I shouldn't have called him that. I wanted to call him something else but that would have caused me to recieve a lifetime ban from SCF.

he shot an armed person who would not respond to a police order, if he shot here 12 times, or ran up and stabbed her to death, the savage part would be right.

mrveggieman
09-27-2012, 12:24 PM
yea, the police should just allow anyone to point a gun in their direction.

and once again you description is so far off it is ridiculous.



he shot an armed person who would not respond to a police order, if he shot here 12 times, or ran up and stabbed her to death, the savage part would be right.


So you believe everything that you read?

shrewsbury
09-27-2012, 12:27 PM
it is apparent you do

you think the officer killed her in cold blood for no reason? and why do you think this?

but i am sure it is a conspiracy as long as it doesn't involve Obama it has to be.

mrveggieman
09-27-2012, 12:41 PM
it is apparent you do

you think the officer killed her in cold blood for no reason? and why do you think this?

but i am sure it is a conspiracy as long as it doesn't involve Obama it has to be.


Again President Obama is only 1 guy who works for the gov't. He is not a branch of the gov't who has a well doccumented history of corruption, racism and violence. LMK the last time President Obama murdered someone or accosted someone because of their race or that they were weaker than him and I will be the first one to call him a gutless coward.

Wickabee
09-27-2012, 12:44 PM
I started to reply to this and then thought I better go look at that video again. You are RIGHT, on second look it does appear that he was in the process of going all the way down on the ground where he would have been no threat. When I watch it the first time (it may have been a lag in the video) it appeared that he was only kneeling when he was kicked. I retract all my comments about this guy. He was over-aggressive and should have received a reprimand at the least.

Oh he was reprimanded for sure.

2 months paid vacation suspension and re-assignment. I'm glad that guy's out of my town, but I feel sorry for the town he's now in, wherever that is.

duwal
09-27-2012, 09:17 PM
But isn't that more of a reflection of you and your paranoia than on the police officers themselves? If the odds of a bad or corrupt cop were compared to the good and decent cops in the country than...

Wickabee
09-27-2012, 11:30 PM
But isn't that more of a reflection of you and your paranoia than on the police officers themselves? If the odds of a bad or corrupt cop were compared to the good and decent cops in the country than the odds would be similar to finding an ultra rare insert in a card product

The problem is you can't tell which cops are trustworthy and which aren't by looking at them. They all wear the same uniform.
My bigger problem is higher up the chain. The management that let's the bad cops get away with their crap, which makes good cops look bad. Be mad at them, man, not us who don't trut a uniform. It's just clothing.

shrewsbury
09-28-2012, 09:42 AM
how about be mad at the bad ones, not group them all into the same bunch?

so everytime you see a foreigner do you think they are here illegally? if not, why not? there are more people here illegally then there are bad cops.

mrveggieman
09-28-2012, 12:15 PM
But isn't that more of a reflection of you and your paranoia than on the police officers themselves? If the odds of a bad or corrupt cop were compared to the good and decent cops in the country than the odds would be similar to finding an ultra rare insert in a card product


I don't know if you have kids or not but if you do you tell them not to talk to strangers or take candy from them. Why? Not all strangers are bad but you cannot take a chance on it. Just like the police. I know that not all of them are bad but I cannot chance it.

mrveggieman
09-28-2012, 12:15 PM
how about be mad at the bad ones, not group them all into the same bunch?

so everytime you see a foreigner do you think they are here illegally? if not, why not? there are more people here illegally then there are bad cops.

Isn't that what you conservatives already do?

Wickabee
09-28-2012, 12:17 PM
how about be mad at the bad ones, not group them all into the same bunch?

Shrew, I'm going to say this one more time, and then I'm done repeating the same point over and over to people who refuse to listen to logic (or just listen).

I don't know which cops are good and which are bad. Can you tell by looking at them? I can't, their uniforms all look the same.
Knowing this, and knowing that it IS entirely possible a cop will kill me for no discernible reason and, thanks to the attitudes of people like you who think police can do no wrong and everyone else is just a whiny criminal/hater, get away with it scott free.
So if I don't want to be killed by a cop, it behooves me not to trust them until I know them as people. But, of course, that just means I'm "lumping them all together" right?

That is terrible reasoning. I'm just staying alive, not "hating" or "lumping" or "disrespecting. In fact, you're disrespecting me by making me repeat myself ad nauseum.

As for veg, I understand his viewpoint, but he goes farther in his distrust and dislike of police than I do.

theonedru
09-29-2012, 01:11 PM
I don't know if you have kids or not but if you do you tell them not to talk to strangers or take candy from them. Why? Not all strangers are bad but you cannot take a chance on it. Just like the police. I know that not all of them are bad but I cannot chance it.

So every time someone passes by you or any other black guy we must assume them to be a drug dealer, gang banger, thief or rapist? even though they represent a small minority of the black community we can't take a chance on it right!!!!!

or Every woman must look upon all men as rapists even though 99.9999% are not can they afford to take that chance?

Wickabee
09-29-2012, 01:26 PM
So every time someone passes by you or any other black guy we must assume them to be a drug dealer, gang banger, thief or rapist? even though they represent a small minority of the black community we can't take a chance on it right!!!!!

or Every woman must look upon all men as rapists even though 99.9999% are not can they afford to take that chance?

Apples and oranges my friend. A random black guy can`t legally beat the crap out of you and then put you in jail. A black guy will likely be found and prosecuted. A cop...from what I`ve seen, they get a paid vacation and have to move somewhere...boo hoo for them.

shrewsbury
09-29-2012, 06:53 PM
so don't trust anyone unless you personally know them?

what if your car matches a description of an armed robbery suspect, and you are pulled over, out of the blue, by 6 cop cars? (happened to me)

2 people broke into your home at night, you are home, you shot (stab whatever) one of them, and the other you chase out the door, as you get to the door the cops show up and say drop the weapon, what do you do?

you go to a protest, the cops show up and ask you to leave, you do not, they order you to leave, you do not, then they threaten you with pepper spray. what do you do?

theonedru
09-29-2012, 07:07 PM
Apples and oranges my friend. A random black guy can`t legally beat the crap out of you and then put you in jail. A black guy will likely be found and prosecuted. A cop...from what I`ve seen, they get a paid vacation and have to move somewhere...boo hoo for them.

it is exactly comparing oranges to oranges, bigotry is bigotry regardless.

shrewsbury
09-29-2012, 07:08 PM
i am with dru on this one, we make a strange couple though!!!!

theonedru
09-29-2012, 07:24 PM
i am with dru on this one, we make a strange couple though!!!!

they do say opposites attract its funny how we are either in total agreement or totally ripping into each other .....:p:

Wickabee
09-29-2012, 07:37 PM
it is exactly comparing oranges to oranges, bigotry is bigotry regardless.

The last time I checked, random black people don't have the authority to arrest you, strip search you, cavity search you, hold you for questioning and detain you.

Apples and oranges. Your mistake is in thinking I'm talking about bigotry. I'm not. Distrust does not equal hatred. If it does in your world, you must either trust or hate everyone you don't know.

Wickabee
09-29-2012, 07:38 PM
so don't trust anyone unless you personally know them?

what if your car matches a description of an armed robbery suspect, and you are pulled over, out of the blue, by 6 cop cars? (happened to me)

2 people broke into your home at night, you are home, you shot (stab whatever) one of them, and the other you chase out the door, as you get to the door the cops show up and say drop the weapon, what do you do?

you go to a protest, the cops show up and ask you to leave, you do not, they order you to leave, you do not, then they threaten you with pepper spray. what do you do?

What does any of this have to do with trusting them?

mrveggieman
10-01-2012, 09:43 AM
The last time I checked, random black people don't have the authority to arrest you, strip search you, cavity search you, hold you for questioning and detain you.

Apples and oranges. Your mistake is in thinking I'm talking about bigotry. I'm not. Distrust does not equal hatred. If it does in your world, you must either trust or hate everyone you don't know.


CHURCH!!! :love0030::love0030::love0030:
CHURCH!!! :love0030::love0030::love0030:

angel0430
10-01-2012, 02:31 PM
From what I get after reading, it is a totally common reaction.

shrewsbury
10-01-2012, 02:46 PM
wickabee, so you are saying you will follow the lawful commands of an officer, but you don't trust them?

if so, i can go for that

Wickabee
10-01-2012, 02:56 PM
wickabee, so you are saying you will follow the lawful commands of an officer, but you don't trust them?

if so, i can go for that

Absolutely. I can respect the authority an officer has been given. We need police and have proven that time and time again.

However, I do not trust him. That does not mean I will be difficult, uncooperative or disrespectful. One does not need trust to respect another. I respect everyone here (for the most part) but that doesn't mean if you show up at my door I'm going to put myself in a position to be hurt, robbed or whatever, because I don't really know you people, so how can I trust you? You're all just little pictures next to text to me, as I'm sure I am to you and I don't expect you to put real trust in me. The same goes for police officers. They're just guys in uniforms with the authority and ability to make my life a living hell. I respect their authority, that doesn't mean I have to trust them.

When I say I don't trust police simply because they're police, does that really make you think I hate them? Disrespect them? Refuse to cooperate with them?

What part of "don't trust" is equal to "hate" "disrespect"? I ask because I have no idea.

shrewsbury
10-01-2012, 04:32 PM
you don't trust me???!!!!!!!!!

man, there goes my vacation house in Canada!!!!!

Wickabee
10-01-2012, 04:34 PM
you don't trust me???!!!!!!!!!

man, there goes my vacation house in Canada!!!!!

I'd offer up my couch but I'm in trouble so much I need it for sleep. Sorry.

mrveggieman
10-01-2012, 04:44 PM
you don't trust me???!!!!!!!!!

man, there goes my vacation house in Canada!!!!!


Never trust anyone who votes against President Obama. :nono:

shrewsbury
10-01-2012, 11:19 PM
veggie, how do you know i didn't vote obama over mccain? and i have clearly stated i am waiting for romney or obama to impress me enough to get my vote.

so now who do you trust???

wickabbe, i can understand, been married for more than 20 years, the couch and i are old buddies

mrveggieman
10-02-2012, 09:01 AM
veggie, how do you know i didn't vote obama over mccain? and i have clearly stated i am waiting for romney or obama to impress me enough to get my vote.

so now who do you trust???

wickabbe, i can understand, been married for more than 20 years, the couch and i are old buddies


Did you? It would be news to me.

Wickabee
10-02-2012, 12:34 PM
Did you? It would be news to me.

I, too, wouldn't believe it but, ultimately, what else do we have to go on but his word?