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mrveggieman
09-28-2012, 12:00 PM
I included the version of this that does not have profanity in the title. If you want to see the entire video please google it. It is funny but the message is not. If you don't vote for Obama you life will be much more difficult.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lt012T_1qvA

ensbergcollector
09-28-2012, 12:08 PM
seeing as how jackson is on the record as voting for obama last time because he was black, forgive me if I avoid taking his political advice.

mrveggieman
09-28-2012, 12:10 PM
seeing as how jackson is on the record as voting for obama last time because he was black, forgive me if I avoid taking his political advice.

Everyone on faux news votes against Obama because he is black but you still take their advice. :rolleyes:

ensbergcollector
09-28-2012, 12:18 PM
Everyone on faux news votes against Obama because he is black but you still take their advice. :rolleyes:

feel free to talk when you have facts and not deluded hate speech. I don't even watch fox news first of all (don't even have cable) so it is probably pretty hard to take their advice.

again, I love jackson as an actor but he is openly on record as voting for obama, even though he knew nothing about his policies, because he was black. You can speculate all you want, but if anyone was on record as voting for mccain because he was white, I highly doubt anyone on the right would be using them to rally troops for romney. However, jackson gets glorified because of it.

mrveggieman
09-28-2012, 12:27 PM
feel free to talk when you have facts and not deluded hate speech. I don't even watch fox news first of all (don't even have cable) so it is probably pretty hard to take their advice.

again, I love jackson as an actor but he is openly on record as voting for obama, even though he knew nothing about his policies, because he was black. You can speculate all you want, but if anyone was on record as voting for mccain because he was white, I highly doubt anyone on the right would be using them to rally troops for romney. However, jackson gets glorified because of it.


I saw the full version of the video. No where on it did he tell any of the people to vote for Obama because he is black. It probably wouldn't have been a good idea anyway since none of the people in it were black and the video was paid for and produced by a jewish group.

Wickabee
09-28-2012, 12:33 PM
feel free to talk when you have facts and not deluded hate speech. I don't even watch fox news first of all (don't even have cable) so it is probably pretty hard to take their advice.

again, I love jackson as an actor but he is openly on record as voting for obama, even though he knew nothing about his policies, because he was black. You can speculate all you want, but if anyone was on record as voting for mccain because he was white, I highly doubt anyone on the right would be using them to rally troops for romney. However, jackson gets glorified because of it.

This is true, but if you're going to say no one voted McCain because Obama is black I'm going to say you're a dreamer. Jackson was just public about it. So, basically, you're mad at him for being honest?

ensbergcollector
09-28-2012, 12:34 PM
I saw the full version of the video. No where on it did he tell any of the people to vote for Obama because he is black. It probably wouldn't have been a good idea anyway since none of the people in it were black and the video was paid for and produced by a jewish group.

i watched the full version as well. I also wasn't referring to the video or this election, but i think you knew that. I meant, his stance from the last election leads me to not want to take his political advice this time around.

curious, would you post a video (in a positive light) if the person doing the video had openly admitted to voting for mccain just because he was white?

mrveggieman
09-28-2012, 12:42 PM
i watched the full version as well. I also wasn't referring to the video or this election, but i think you knew that. I meant, his stance from the last election leads me to not want to take his political advice this time around.

curious, would you post a video (in a positive light) if the person doing the video had openly admitted to voting for mccain just because he was white?

McCain is a non factor in this election so I'm not sure of the revelance to this discussion. However to answer your question I would not have posted any video of someone supporting mccain over obama in 2008 nor would I post a video of someone posting romney now. Not because of race but because romney is a joke and is not worth voting for.

habsheaven
09-28-2012, 01:58 PM
I love how people dance around each others comments. lol ensbergcollector is taking a legitimate, sensible stance on Jackson's credibility on the issue and no one will address it straight on. Too funny.

Wickabee
09-28-2012, 02:10 PM
Really Habs?

shrewsbury
09-28-2012, 02:32 PM
yep, really

someone publicly states they vote by race and it is ok to take their advice?

not much more is as racist as that

but it is ok, but it has to do with obama?

Wickabee
09-28-2012, 02:38 PM
yep, really

someone publicly states they vote by race and it is ok to take their advice?

not much more is as racist as that

but it is ok, but it has to do with obama?

So no one has directly responded? I guess I never agreed on page one...

habsheaven
09-28-2012, 02:45 PM
So no one has directly responded? I guess I never agreed on page one...

I was referring to veggie in this thread, and to many of the regulars in general, in other threads. As for your response to him. You sort of agreed with him, then morphed his thought to include everyone that voted based on skin colour. The people you are speaking of are not making recruitment videos.

Wickabee
09-28-2012, 02:50 PM
I was referring to veggie in this thread, and to many of the regulars in general, in other threads. As for your response to him. You sort of agreed with him, then morphed his thought to include everyone that voted based on skin colour. The people you are speaking of are not making recruitment videos.

No, the people I'm speaking to are denouncing Jackson's racism, but ignoring the racism going the other way because:
A - It is not beneficial to those individuals to admit there are people who voted against Obama because of his colour. Some people are trying to paint black people as the only ones capable of voting on race, simply because some have actually come out and admitted it. I have more respect for Jackson saying it than for anybody who votes with the same logic and then claims not to be racist. Unfortunately, those liars stay in the dark, afraid of what others will say.
B - No white people have admitted to voting McCain or planning on voting Romney because of Obama's colour, though we all know they exist in numbers.

So, if both sides have people (stupidly) voting on colour, which side is worse? The side that's up front about it or those who hide in the shadows and will not admit what they have done?

mrveggieman
09-28-2012, 03:08 PM
Let's assume for the sake of argument that Obama is complete unqualified and only Black people will vote for him because he is black. According to the census blacks only make up 12% of the US population. My question is who else is voting for Obama and why is Romney not winning in a landslide? The answer is yes some people from both sides will only vote because of race but even if you eliminate that amount the best man for the job is clearly President Obama and he will easily defeat that clown mitt romney.

habsheaven
09-28-2012, 03:49 PM
No, the people I'm speaking to are denouncing Jackson's racism, but ignoring the racism going the other way because:
A - It is not beneficial to those individuals to admit there are people who voted against Obama because of his colour. Some people are trying to paint black people as the only ones capable of voting on race, simply because some have actually come out and admitted it. I have more respect for Jackson saying it than for anybody who votes with the same logic and then claims not to be racist. Unfortunately, those liars stay in the dark, afraid of what others will say.
B - No white people have admitted to voting McCain or planning on voting Romney because of Obama's colour, though we all know they exist in numbers.

So, if both sides have people (stupidly) voting on colour, which side is worse? The side that's up front about it or those who hide in the shadows and will not admit what they have done?

I thought you were speaking to ensbergcollector, my mistake. Silly assumption on my part because you quoted him. Replied to him, and followed up with your comment. Of course there are people on both sides that vote simply based on colour. I don't think ensbergcollector implied otherwise. He spoke about Jackson because Jackson is actively recruiting people to vote. IMO, no one is racist if they choose to vote for a candidate that "looks like themselves". That's a comfort thing. It takes a lot more than that to earn a racist label. Much like people voting for good-looking candidates more so than ugly ones.

Wickabee
09-28-2012, 04:04 PM
I thought you were speaking to ensbergcollector, my mistake. Silly assumption on my part because you quoted him. Replied to him, and followed up with your comment. Of course there are people on both sides that vote simply based on colour. I don't think ensbergcollector implied otherwise. He spoke about Jackson because Jackson is actively recruiting people to vote. IMO, no one is racist if they choose to vote for a candidate that "looks like themselves". That's a comfort thing. It takes a lot more than that to earn a racist label. Much like people voting for good-looking candidates more so than ugly ones.

I'm talking to him and anyone else who wants to point out racism on the other side without acknowledging their own. Yes, that includes veggie, but he's pretty open about the issue and I don't believe he votes that way.

Ensberg wasn't commenting because Jackson made a video. He commented because Jackson publicly said why he voted how he did. Ensberg seems to think this is only a problem among blacks, because only blacks actually admit it. Who's worse, the ones who vote on colour and admit it, or the ones who vote on colour and hide it?

Just don't pretend no white people did vote for McCain or will vote for Romney based on colour. If you listen to people like ensberg, it never EVER happens whatsoever.

Oh, and don't talk to me like I'm an idiot.

duwal
09-28-2012, 05:52 PM
Everyone on faux news votes against Obama because he is black but you still take their advice. :rolleyes:

I had talked to plenty of Republican colleagues over on the southern and eastern coasts and they pretty said that only they used much more derogatory descriptions than black

shrewsbury
09-28-2012, 06:06 PM
i have never heard a white person say they did not vote for obama because of his race. i have heard black people say they did vote for him based on his race.

if i don't vote for obama because he is black, or if i vote for romney because he is white, i would be a racist, no two ways about it.

if someone votes for someone based on their race they are a racist. you can't sugarcoat it any other way.

i think the % of people who did not vote for obama do to his race is just as high as the ones that voted for him do to his race, and both are a small percent and both are racist.

if you favor anyone do to their race you are a racist. there is no two ways about it. it is the definition of racism!!

Wickabee
09-28-2012, 06:26 PM
i have never heard a white person say they did not vote for obama because of his race. i have heard black people say they did vote for him based on his race.

Unless you truly believe the people who ADMIT it is equal to the reality of it and therefor nobody voted against Obama because he's black, I'll ask again:
Who's worse, the people voting for Obama on colour and being honest about it, or those voting against him because of colour and hiding it?

shrewsbury
09-28-2012, 07:01 PM
wickabee i agree, i just have never personally heard someone say it. sure maybe they are thinking it, or i read it somewhere, but i never have heard it.

and as far as who is worse, it would be both, a closet racist is just as bad as an open racist, a racist is a racist and until we stop denying it and speaking up about it, we will always have to deal with it. i don't care who you are, what color you are, your religion, or your politics, if you are a racist, i don't like you, even if you were my brother or uncle.
the only worse racist would be one who hurt someone because of it.

Wickabee
09-28-2012, 07:48 PM
wickabee i agree, i just have never personally heard someone say it. sure maybe they are thinking it, or i read it somewhere, but i never have heard it.

and as far as who is worse, it would be both, a closet racist is just as bad as an open racist, a racist is a racist and until we stop denying it and speaking up about it, we will always have to deal with it. i don't care who you are, what color you are, your religion, or your politics, if you are a racist, i don't like you, even if you were my brother or uncle.
the only worse racist would be one who hurt someone because of it.

This is where you and I disagree. I feel that standing by your principles, no matter how misguided they may be, is something to respect and something that has become rare. I'd rather you believed something stupid and were honest and open about it than hide it away, as a shame, knowing it's completely wrong and there is no excuse.

Just my opinion, I rarely type out others'

shrewsbury
09-28-2012, 08:44 PM
again, to me, a racist is a racist and there is no excuse for it. it does not mean you should not be proud of your heritage, but to base your opinions of others by race, whether good or bad, is simply racism.

Wickabee
09-28-2012, 08:53 PM
again, to me, a racist is a racist and there is no excuse for it. it does not mean you should not be proud of your heritage, but to base your opinions of others by race, whether good or bad, is simply racism.

I'm not trying to say racism isn't racism. I just respect people who stand by their beliefs, whatever they are, more than those who hide them, lest they look bad. That's just cowardice.

shrewsbury
09-28-2012, 10:22 PM
i would agree if it were something good, but not racism

Wickabee
09-28-2012, 10:26 PM
i would agree if it were something good, but not racism

You can't only agree if it's something good. Either you think people should be honest and stand by their principles or you don't.

habsheaven
09-28-2012, 10:28 PM
I'm talking to him and anyone else who wants to point out racism on the other side without acknowledging their own. Yes, that includes veggie, but he's pretty open about the issue and I don't believe he votes that way.

Ensberg wasn't commenting because Jackson made a video. He commented because Jackson publicly said why he voted how he did. Ensberg seems to think this is only a problem among blacks, because only blacks actually admit it. Who's worse, the ones who vote on colour and admit it, or the ones who vote on colour and hide it?

Just don't pretend no white people did vote for McCain or will vote for Romney based on colour. If you listen to people like ensberg, it never EVER happens whatsoever.

Oh, and don't talk to me like I'm an idiot.

Shall I talk to you like your clairvoyant? Where does ensberg say or imply any of the bolded that you attribute to him?

Wickabee
09-28-2012, 10:31 PM
Shall I talk to you like your clairvoyant? Where does ensberg say or imply any of the bolded that you attribute to him?

The fact he went off about Jackson's racism while completely ignoring the racism on the other side, only because no one came out and said it like Jackson did.

Try to keep up.

habsheaven
09-28-2012, 10:36 PM
The fact he went off about Jackson's racism while completely ignoring the racism on the other side, only because no one came out and said it like Jackson did.

Try to keep up.

The Jackson video is the crux of the thread. That's why he commented on it and it alone. Since when do we have to comment on both sides of an issue when we post, or be accused of ignoring the obvious?

You best go back and re-read the whole thread, pay particular attention to ensberg's posts. Once again, as usual you are adding your own personal commentary to other people's thoughts. Are you up to speed yet???

Wickabee
09-28-2012, 10:49 PM
The Jackson video is the crux of the thread. That's why he commented on it and it alone. Since when do we have to comment on both sides of an issue when we post, or be accused of ignoring the obvious?
Probably because every time veggie posts something about a racist white person he's reminded over and over that black people can be racist too.

Why is it alright for everyone else to do that, but when I go the other way it's do terrible?


You best go back and re-read the whole thread, pay particular attention to ensberg's posts. Once again, as usual you are adding your own personal commentary to other people's thoughts.
I read the thread, it seems you have not been reading my posts. It`s okay, I realize you rarely, if ever, actually do. I just simply reminded him that black people aren't the only racists. I've said that I respect people like Jackson a little more for at least standing by and proclaiming his reasons and owning it than the people on the other side who did vote for McCain because Obama's black, but won't tell anyone that for fear of looking bad.


Are you up to speed yet???

You're so far behind you only think you're ahead. You've proven in the past two posts you don't understand mine and probably haven't really read them at all, or at least, decided to put your own meanings to word instead of their actual meanings.

habsheaven
09-28-2012, 11:19 PM
Probably because every time veggie posts something about a racist white person he's reminded over and over that black people can be racist too.

Why is it alright for everyone else to do that, but when I go the other way it's do terrible?


I read the thread, it seems you have not been reading my posts. It`s okay, I realize you rarely, if ever, actually do. I just simply reminded him that black people aren't the only racists.

You didn't just simply remind him, you told him what he was thinking, despite the fact he hadn't typed anything of the sort. Do I need to refresh your memory by re-posting your posts?

I've said that I respect people like Jackson a little more for at least standing by and proclaiming his reasons and owning it than the people on the other side who did vote for McCain because Obama's black, but won't tell anyone that for fear of looking bad.

I agree with this sentiment. I didn't know I had to state my agreement, or be accused of not reading everything.

You're so far behind you only think you're ahead. You've proven in the past two posts you don't understand mine and probably haven't really read them at all, or at least, decided to put your own meanings to word instead of their actual meanings.

In one of my posts I expressed my opinion on whether or not voting for a person solely based on race was racist. I disagreed with you. That seems to indicate that I did read your posts. Please show me where I put my own meaning on your words.


Responses in bold.

Wickabee
09-28-2012, 11:47 PM
1 - Yes, please remind me. I was working on what he said and what he omitted. Are you trying to tell me I called him a racist? Because that would make you a liar.
2 - I don';t understand. If you agree, why are you arguing with me? If you read it in the first place, why have I had to say it 3 times?
3 - When have I said voting based on colour isn't racist? What on earth are you talking about?

Zimbow
09-29-2012, 01:24 AM
I get the message that Samuel Jackson is trying to promote, but why use profanity? I'm not trying to swerve around the topic but I was immediately turned off when he was dropping F bombs. I'm not saying that I don't occasionally drop an F bomb a time or two, but using them to promote an idea? Meh... I stayed for the whole video because Samuel Jackson is one of my favorite actors and I like to see him act. Even though it was bleeped, I could still tell or see the F bomb was being dropped... Don't understand why they had the little girl at the end use it. Sigh... Someone please enlighten me!?

Maybe I'm in the wrong for picking apart a video or message, if seems that way I apologize ahead of time. Just some stuff really irks me the wrong way.

habsheaven
09-29-2012, 10:07 AM
1 - Yes, please remind me. I was working on what he said and what he omitted. Are you trying to tell me I called him a racist? Because that would make you a liar.
2 - I don';t understand. If you agree, why are you arguing with me? If you read it in the first place, why have I had to say it 3 times?
3 - When have I said voting based on colour isn't racist? What on earth are you talking about?

Try this ONE MORE TIME, then I am done with it. I can't make it any CLEARER. Feels like I am arguing with someone that doesn't understand ENGLISH.

1.) Here’s a reminder:

You said; “but if you're going to say no one voted McCain because Obama is black I'm going to say you're a dreamer”
He didn’t say that. Yet, you speculate on what he is thinking, or may say, and discredit it.

You said; “Ensberg seems to think this is only a problem among blacks, because only blacks actually admit it.” Nowhere did he say this. Yet you accuse him of doing so.

You said it again; “Just don't pretend no white people did vote for McCain or will vote for Romney based on colour. If you listen to people like ensberg, it never EVER happens whatsoever. Please quote where he said this. He didn’t. You assume he believes this because he DIDN’T talk about it.

2.) I was arguing that you were making assumptions about ensberg just because he DIDN’T state something YOU thought he should have. It’s crystal clear, except for the guy doing it I guess.

3.) When did I say you did? What are you talking about? Please post where I said YOU think people voting based on race is not racist. What I said was that MY opinion is that it is not racist and that disagreed with your opinion.

Clear your thoughts. Start with a blank slate and read what I post, NOT what you think I am saying before you even read it.

shrewsbury
09-29-2012, 11:29 AM
so a loud racist is better than a quiet one?

no, a racist is a racist

the only thing better about a loud one is you know who they are to stay away from

Wickabee
09-29-2012, 01:09 PM
Try this ONE MORE TIME, then I am done with it. I can't make it any CLEARER. Feels like I am arguing with someone that doesn't understand ENGLISH.
Yes, let's try this one more time and see if you can actually understand where you're wrong:


1.) Here’s a reminder:

You said; “but if you're going to say no one voted McCain because Obama is black I'm going to say you're a dreamer”
He didn’t say that. Yet, you speculate on what he is thinking, or may say, and discredit it.
And you didn't say man will walk on Jupiter next week, but if you're going to say that, I'm going to say you're a dreamer.
So, in fact, I did not say he said that. You told me I said he said that. If you're going to roll your eyes and say I meant he said that, that's incorrect as well. I was a device to move to my point. If he said that, I would call him a dreamer. He didn't, so I didn't call him a dreamer.



You said; “Ensberg seems to think this is only a problem among blacks, because only blacks actually admit it.” Nowhere did he say this. Yet you accuse him of doing so.
He does seem to think it's only a problem among blacks. He's one of the ones who comes out of the woodwork when Veggie claims racism and fires back with how racist blacks are. If he really though there was a problem among whites, I assume he would mention it, instead of just ragging on veggie telling him he's racist (I'm not finding the thread, but darn near everyone has called veg a racist) and calling blacks racist, but never once talking about racism on the other side. His side. That's why it seems like he thinks it's only a problem among blacks.
So you see, there's two instances where you put your own meaning to my words.


You said it again; “Just don't pretend no white people did vote for McCain or will vote for Romney based on colour. If you listen to people like ensberg, it never EVER happens whatsoever. Please quote where he said this. He didn’t. You assume he believes this because he DIDN’T talk about it.
Yes. If you listen to him and people like him, it never happens. That isn't to say they say it never happens, but they omit everything that makes their side look bad. If you listen to them, no, there is no racism in the Republican party or among Republican voters. They like to talk a lot about how the Democrats are racist, but will never admit to the racism in their own party. That's why, if you listen to them, you come away thinking it never ever happens.

I still fail to see where I've done what you accuse me of. I can see where you're doing it, though. Maybe you're projecting?


2.) I was arguing that you were making assumptions about ensberg just because he DIDN’T state something YOU thought he should have. It’s crystal clear, except for the guy doing it I guess.
apparently it is. You don't see it at all.


3.) When did I say you did? What are you talking about? Please post where I said YOU think people voting based on race is not racist. What I said was that MY opinion is that it is not racist and that disagreed with your opinion.
Funny, I was going to say the same thing to you, especially where the three incidents where I "put my own meaning to someone else's words" is a perfect example of you putting your meaning on my words. I hope you're being ironic with that last post. If so, nice job, that was funny. If not, that's just kinda sad.

Clear your thoughts. Start with a blank slate and read what I post, NOT what you think I am saying before you even read it.[/QUOTE]

Wickabee
09-29-2012, 01:10 PM
so a loud racist is better than a quiet one?

no, a racist is a racist

the only thing better about a loud one is you know who they are to stay away from

Don't look now, shrew, but I think you just stumbled on a small piece of my reasoning on this.

Theodor Madison
09-29-2012, 01:29 PM
Might as well carry a stick and stand at a voting location. I can already see Obama, Holder and Jackson walking into the sunset of socialism.

ensbergcollector
09-29-2012, 03:37 PM
let me clear things up since what i haven't said seems to be the only think some people want to talk about. I very openly admit that there is racism on both sides. I openly admit that there are numerous white people who are prejudiced. I have said so before. I comment when people imply that only whites are racist. Have I called veggie a racist? yes. i have done so because of his use of words like uncle tom which i consider to be very racist. Does me calling him a racist imply or mean that white people can't be racist or that white on black racism never occurs? of course not.

so, feel free to save that somewhere before you try and tell me what I think. Or try and tell others what I think.

now, congrats to wick who has managed to turn this entire thread (or most of it) into a thread about me, and not about jackson or the video posted. you, like others here, never want to address anything I actually write. You simply want to dwell in what I might be thinking or what I might feel.

as for this thread...I think jackson made statements regarding the last election that would lead me to not value his opinion on this one. apparently his open racism is something for others to be proud of and think that makes him a good person for being open about his opinions. do i want him to hide what he feels? nope. do i think his previous comments lead me to not take his advice in elections, absolutely.

Wickabee
09-29-2012, 05:01 PM
let me clear things up since what i haven't said seems to be the only think some people want to talk about. I very openly admit that there is racism on both sides. I openly admit that there are numerous white people who are prejudiced. I have said so before. I comment when people imply that only whites are racist. Have I called veggie a racist? yes. i have done so because of his use of words like uncle tom which i consider to be very racist. Does me calling him a racist imply or mean that white people can't be racist or that white on black racism never occurs? of course not.

so, feel free to save that somewhere before you try and tell me what I think. Or try and tell others what I think.

now, congrats to wick who has managed to turn this entire thread (or most of it) into a thread about me, and not about jackson or the video posted. you, like others here, never want to address anything I actually write. You simply want to dwell in what I might be thinking or what I might feel.

as for this thread...I think jackson made statements regarding the last election that would lead me to not value his opinion on this one. apparently his open racism is something for others to be proud of and think that makes him a good person for being open about his opinions. do i want him to hide what he feels? nope. do i think his previous comments lead me to not take his advice in elections, absolutely.

1 - As I said earlier, I never told anyone what you think. I made judgement based on what you said and omitted, but I never said what you think. Both you and Habs are guilty of this mistaken accusation of me.

2 - Habs is actually the one who turned into a thread about you. I simply defended myself against his accusations. Don't blame me for this, blame the guy who accuses others of putting their own meaning to other words by putting his own meaning to their words. So I don't deserve your congratulations (thanks though, for your poor attempt to make me look somehow worse by blaming me for what someone else actually did), Habs does.

3 - I never said open racism is something "to be proud of". You twist my words and ignore my explanations. I said it's better than hidden racism because at least they own their beliefs. Those who hide their racism don't. They're cowards. An open racist at least isn't afraid of his own beliefs. A hidden racist is. It's more respectable. Now, does that mean the racism itself is more respectable? No. I never said that. It's a stupid thing to say and anyone who thinks I've said that is obviously putting their own meaning on my words.
The attitude towards their own racism, the fact that they believe something (no matter how misguided) and stand by it, live it and own it is more respectable than someone who has beliefs and hides them, denies them and omits them. That is cowardice and nothing else.

If you guys don't understand what I'm saying by now, there is no help for you.

habsheaven
09-29-2012, 05:09 PM
let me clear things up since what i haven't said seems to be the only think some people want to talk about. I very openly admit that there is racism on both sides. I openly admit that there are numerous white people who are prejudiced. I have said so before. I comment when people imply that only whites are racist. Have I called veggie a racist? yes. i have done so because of his use of words like uncle tom which i consider to be very racist. Does me calling him a racist imply or mean that white people can't be racist or that white on black racism never occurs? of course not.

so, feel free to save that somewhere before you try and tell me what I think. Or try and tell others what I think.

now, congrats to wick who has managed to turn this entire thread (or most of it) into a thread about me, and not about jackson or the video posted. you, like others here, never want to address anything I actually write. You simply want to dwell in what I might be thinking or what I might feel.

as for this thread...I think jackson made statements regarding the last election that would lead me to not value his opinion on this one. apparently his open racism is something for others to be proud of and think that makes him a good person for being open about his opinions. do i want him to hide what he feels? nope. do i think his previous comments lead me to not take his advice in elections, absolutely.

ensbergcollector ... you are delusional. He hasn't been doing any of that. How dare you put your own meaning to his words.

shrewsbury
09-29-2012, 05:44 PM
wickabee, i could agree with that

Wickabee
09-29-2012, 06:06 PM
ensbergcollector ... you are delusional. He hasn't been doing any of that. How dare you put your own meaning to his words.
Your hypocrisy is getting old, Habs.


wickabee, i could agree with that
Thanks. Glad to know someone is reading the posts instead of just the names of the posters. It's quite refreshing.

boba
09-29-2012, 08:50 PM
I have never seen anyone manipulate an online debate as much-well as Wickabee has. He has changed the argument that was the topic at hand that he couldn't win, to an argument about whether or not he put words into someones mouth. Wickabee, well done, I think...

Wickabee
09-30-2012, 01:07 PM
I have never seen anyone manipulate an online debate as much-well as Wickabee has. He has changed the argument that was the topic at hand that he couldn't win, to an argument about whether or not he put words into someones mouth. Wickabee, well done, I think...
I love it. Habs makes an accusation, I defend myself an now I'm manipulating the argument.
Whatever happened to comprehension.

Jeez, next Habs is going to tell me I said ensberg is delusional...

I bet most of you can't even remember what I was saying, or even read it now for the first time.

shrewsbury
09-30-2012, 01:41 PM
something about beer?

Wickabee
09-30-2012, 01:42 PM
Let`s look at what started this crap:


feel free to talk when you have facts and not deluded hate speech. I don't even watch fox news first of all (don't even have cable) so it is probably pretty hard to take their advice.

again, I love jackson as an actor but he is openly on record as voting for obama, even though he knew nothing about his policies, because he was black. You can speculate all you want, but if anyone was on record as voting for mccain because he was white, I highly doubt anyone on the right would be using them to rally troops for romney. However, jackson gets glorified because of it.


This is true, but if you're going to say no one voted McCain because Obama is black I'm going to say you're a dreamer. Jackson was just public about it. So, basically, you're mad at him for being honest?


I was referring to veggie in this thread, and to many of the regulars in general, in other threads. As for your response to him. You sort of agreed with him, then morphed his thought to include everyone that voted based on skin colour. The people you are speaking of are not making recruitment videos.


So, by adding that white people can be racist too, I somehow `morphed`someone`s thought. Anyone want to tell me how that makes sense, because it doesn`t.

Wickabee
09-30-2012, 01:52 PM
something about beer?

You know, it wouldn't surprise me if someone else genuinely thought that, the way this thread is going.

habsheaven
09-30-2012, 01:54 PM
So, by adding that white people can be racist too, I somehow `morphed`someone`s thought. Anyone want to tell me how that makes sense, because it doesn`t.

Look closely at your post:

"This is true, but if you're going to say no one voted McCain because Obama is black I'm going to say you're a dreamer. Jackson was just public about it. So, basically, you're mad at him for being honest?"

This statement pre-emptively links that thought to ensbergcollector, even though he did not say anything like it. Just so you can present an argument that he wasn't even opposing. It gives the appearance to someone not following along closely that ensberg thinks this. It also avoids the point ensberg was making. It's a classic ploy. Used so regularily by you that you don't even realize you are doing it. So yes, in a word: morphed.

Wickabee
09-30-2012, 02:10 PM
Look closely at your post:

"This is true, but if you're going to say no one voted McCain because Obama is black I'm going to say you're a dreamer. Jackson was just public about it. So, basically, you're mad at him for being honest?"

This statement pre-emptively links that thought to ensbergcollector, even though he did not say anything like it. Just so you can present an argument that he wasn't even opposing. It gives the appearance to someone not following along closely that ensberg thinks this. It also avoids the point ensberg was making. It's a classic ploy. Used so regularily by you that you don't even realize you are doing it. So yes, in a word: morphed.[/QUOTE]

Habs, read. Slowly.

"if you're going to say no one voted McCain because Obama is black I'm going to say you're a dreamer."

and if he does he is. Tell me, though, where I said he DOES think that? You see, my statement would require him to think that to be a dreamer. I didn't say he thinks that. I didn't even suggest he thinks that. I said "if he thinks that, he's a dreamer" and I'll stand by it.

I'll put it this way, if I said, "if you think the world is flat, you're a dreamer" did I just say you think the earth is flat? No.

Not that what I actually said ever made one lick of difference to you. Judging from you history of responses to my posts, you're probably now going to tell me I somehow said you orchestrated 9/11.


Of course, I could be wrong about that. You could find some other thing that never happened to blame me for. Why stick to reality, right habs?

habsheaven
09-30-2012, 02:50 PM
[/I]This statement pre-emptively links that thought to ensbergcollector, even though he did not say anything like it. Just so you can present an argument that he wasn't even opposing. It gives the appearance to someone not following along closely that ensberg thinks this. It also avoids the point ensberg was making. It's a classic ploy. Used so regularily by you that you don't even realize you are doing it. So yes, in a word: morphed.

Habs, read. Slowly.

"if you're going to say no one voted McCain because Obama is black I'm going to say you're a dreamer."

and if he does he is. Tell me, though, where I said he DOES think that? You see, my statement would require him to think that to be a dreamer. I didn't say he thinks that. I didn't even suggest he thinks that. I said "if he thinks that, he's a dreamer" and I'll stand by it.

The IMPLICATION is there. It's all in the phrasing. You may not see it. I saw it. Ensbergcollector saw it. So did a few others. Even now, you end the thought by arguing "I'll stand by it". As if it's in question at all.

I'll put it this way, if I said, "if you think the world is flat, you're a dreamer" did I just say you think the earth is flat? No.

You would have to know the context of why you brought up "the world was flat". If it was in the middle of a discussion about the world, you would be guilty of doing the same thing.

Not that what I actually said ever made one lick of difference to you. Judging from you history of responses to my posts, you're probably now going to tell me I somehow said you orchestrated 9/11.

Of course, I could be wrong about that. You could find some other thing that never happened to blame me for. Why stick to reality, right habs?

Not worthy of a response, except to say it's classic overkill to try and make your persecution look real. lol
[/QUOTE]

Keep up the denial. It suits you.

Wickabee
09-30-2012, 03:00 PM
The IMPLICATION is there. It's all in the phrasing. You may not see it. I saw it. Ensbergcollector saw it. So did a few others. Even now, you end the thought by arguing "I'll stand by it". As if it's in question at all.
If that's what you want to read into it, I can't stop that. I can only write what I mean and defend it against wrongful accusations. If you placed that meaning on my words, that's on you not me.


You would have to know the context of why you brought up "the world was flat". If it was in the middle of a discussion about the world, you would be guilty of doing the same thing.Oh, so now it's about context. First I outright said it, then I implied it and now it's about the context. Yet I'm the one manipulating the argument. Sure, ok.

And again, even in context, it's still your interpretation, not my meaning. Again, that's on you not me


Not worthy of a response, except to say it's classic overkill to try and make your persecution look real. lol

I can clearly recall you saying I thought ensberg was delusional. Oh, but that's a case of me adding my meaning on your words, isn't it. Funny how you jump all over me for that (when it didn't even happen) but when I call you on it, you just say "not worthy of response" and gloss over it. No hypocrisy there whatsoever. Nope, not an ounce.


Keep up the denial. It suits you.
The only denial I see is you denying facts and reality by putting words in my mouth. Good job, you've now done TWO things while wrongly accusing me of doing those very same things. Great strategy.

habsheaven
09-30-2012, 07:04 PM
wick ... your words speak for themselves. If you don't like being called out on it, tough! Choose your words more clearly next time, or live with the criticism. I don't care which you choose. I am done discussing your poor debating skills. So I leave the last word to you. Make it good, so far all you have been able to do is convince yourself. lol

Wickabee
09-30-2012, 07:43 PM
Habs, the poor debating skills are with the one who made things up (you) the one who lied (you) the one who displayed unparalleled hypocrisy (you) and the one who never actually made a point in the first place...you.

It would also lie with the one who started this idiocy in the first place. Again, that's you.

And let's not forget who claimed I was putting my own meaning to others' words...by putting his owning meaning on my words (you).
Oh, and who was it who called me "clairvoyant" before proceeding to tell me what my posts really meant, despite what they actually said. Once again, that would be you.

mrveggieman
10-01-2012, 10:37 AM
let me clear things up since what i haven't said seems to be the only think some people want to talk about. I very openly admit that there is racism on both sides. I openly admit that there are numerous white people who are prejudiced. I have said so before. I comment when people imply that only whites are racist. Have I called veggie a racist? yes. i have done so because of his use of words like uncle tom which i consider to be very racist. Does me calling him a racist imply or mean that white people can't be racist or that white on black racism never occurs? of course not.

so, feel free to save that somewhere before you try and tell me what I think. Or try and tell others what I think.

now, congrats to wick who has managed to turn this entire thread (or most of it) into a thread about me, and not about jackson or the video posted. you, like others here, never want to address anything I actually write. You simply want to dwell in what I might be thinking or what I might feel.

as for this thread...I think jackson made statements regarding the last election that would lead me to not value his opinion on this one. apparently his open racism is something for others to be proud of and think that makes him a good person for being open about his opinions. do i want him to hide what he feels? nope. do i think his previous comments lead me to not take his advice in elections, absolutely.


I have been reading the threads that I missed over the weekend and I want to chime in. Although I was asked or better yet told to stop using the term uncle tom on here I do stand by everything that I post on here unless I am proven wrong. If that makes me a racist I would hate to see what you conservatives would call rush. Oh wait a minute poor example some of you view rush as your news source. Also I appreciate Samuel Jackson for keeping it real and admitting his biases in 2008. I also applaud him for researching the issues and doing a PSA to encourage people to get out to vote. Someone on here a while back made a comment suggesting that a large percentage of white people only voted for Obama to appear not to be racist. That was one of the most idiotic statements that I heard on here and I heard some pretty dumb things. If someone had any racial biases against President Obama they will not vote for him. They can simply say that the voted for him in public but when you vote it is private and no one knows who you voted for unless you tell them. No you conservatives will reach for any excuse to discredit President Obama and him being legally elected and are all ready looking for excuses for why romney will get his butt whipped this coming november.

pghin08
10-01-2012, 10:40 AM
I think this thread has run its course.