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View Full Version : Border Patrol agent shoots, kills woman in Calif.



Zimbow
09-29-2012, 01:24 AM
Just saw this article... I have a feeling the full facts of this story will probably come out within 24-48 hours. What is your take on how the border patrol agent acted? Was he in the right or the...

cavaliersfan30
09-29-2012, 01:48 AM
his life was in danger, what other choice did he have....he may have a family as well, they forget to report those facts and only that she had kids...

if she was smart she would have stopped the car, then he wouldnt have fired his weapon

themanishere
09-29-2012, 02:44 AM
Seems weird as to why she would just keep driving with someone on the hood. Who would do that? Sounds like the guy fired warning shots too...

theonedru
09-29-2012, 02:58 AM
She got what she deserved so I have zero sympathy.. He did what he had to to save himself from her stupidity....

MattDMC
09-29-2012, 03:31 AM
If I was hit by a car that didn't stop and continued to drive with myself still on the hood I would have done the same thing.

My question is why she didn't try to stop the car and kept on going? Her husband said "Where's the evidence my wife threatened a trained officer? I want justice.", last time I checked if you hit somebody with your car and continue driving with them on your hood the officer is clearly threatened. I don't see how the Husbands comment makes any sense but at the same time I see where he's coming from since he lost his wife.

This is a sad story that definitely could have been avoided if the women would have just hit her brakes.

Jaames
09-29-2012, 03:40 AM
How did the guy get hit by the car in the first place? Did she know that he was a officer? How fast was the car moving?

indexed
09-29-2012, 03:43 AM
I remember two border patrols shot a drug dealer and went to prison JS for it. I hope our this doesn't repeat, once I read she drove a few hundred yards with him on her hood then thats the key to me.

shrewsbury
09-29-2012, 10:31 AM
oh my, i nearly agree with every poster in this thread!!!!

Wickabee
09-29-2012, 12:30 PM
How did the guy get hit by the car in the first place?

I`m going to get jumped on for this but, this is a very good question and the omission of what actually happened makes me wonder.

MattDMC
09-29-2012, 03:31 PM
How did the guy get hit by the car in the first place? Did she know that he was a officer? How fast was the car moving?

Honestly does it matter how the guy got hit?

If he was standing in the middle of the road and was hit by accident does it really make a difference? The women still hit him and didn't stop so even if it was a freak accident that he got hit the women still decided to keep driving making a hit and run.

Wickabee
09-29-2012, 04:05 PM
Honestly does it matter how the guy got hit?

I'm going to say yes. If it was his own stupidity, which is obviously unlikely, then his mistake got her killed.

Now, before anyone comes in here telling me I'm a paranoid cop-hater who disrespects officers whenever I see them, I will say, I can't think of a likely scenario where it would be any fault but the driver's, but it does bug me that there's no report of why he was on the hood in the first place. I will also say that if anyone, not just an officer, is on your hood, you should probably stop immediately.

shrewsbury
09-29-2012, 05:42 PM
i could see if he came out of nowhere and she hit him and he flung up onto the hood. she got freightened and floored it instead of hitting the brakes.

but

why did she keep going?
he was on there long enough to get his head together, pull out a gun, fore some shots, then point it at her and shoot her. unless she blacked out with her eyes open and hands and feet froze, i am unsure what she could have been doing.
and if she blacked out like this, how would the cop know?

habsheaven
09-29-2012, 11:11 PM
Now this story is one that doesn't make sense. If the car was going fast enough that he couldn't jump off for fear of seriously injuring himself, why would he shoot her to try and stop the car? Wouldn't that leave a speeding car going out of control because the driver is now dead? Even if her foot came off the accelerator, the car would still have a lot of momentum and he and others would still be in jeapordy. If the car was going slow enough that he could risk killing the driver because the car's momentum wasn't great, why not just get off? Until more is learned about the facts of the case, I can't say what he did was appropriate.

shrewsbury
09-30-2012, 10:13 AM
A witness told Fox 5 News that a woman was driving the dark sedan with a man clinging to the roof. The woman was swerving back and forth down the street, apparently trying to throw the man off the room. The witness said the man managed to shoot the driver from the roof.


"I've been in my house most of the rest of the day, our neighborhood is normally safe I'm just shocked someone would do this with an agent on their car," said Garcia.

http://www.ivpressonline.com/news/kswb-border-patrol-fbi-involved-in-fatal-south-bay-shootin-20120928,0,2394563.story

habsheaven
09-30-2012, 11:41 AM
How does one hang onto a roof with one hand while the car is swerving? I'm beginning to think he had other, less extreme options.

Wickabee
09-30-2012, 12:10 PM
How does one hang onto a roof with one hand while the car is swerving? I'm beginning to think he had other, less extreme options.

Cue:
"But, but...someone gave him a uniform! He can obviously do no wrong and the official explanation is always the exact truth. If you think otherwise, you're a bigot against cops."

shrewsbury
09-30-2012, 12:40 PM
so he jumps off and she speeds away?
why was she doing this in the first place in my question?
all evidence so far points to her having some reason to try and get away from the police.

Wickabee
09-30-2012, 12:47 PM
so he jumps off and she speeds away?
why was she doing this in the first place in my question?
all evidence so far points to her having some reason to try and get away from the police.

Why is he on the hood...I mean roof...what happened? All I know is somehow he got on her car then killed her. Not saying it's right or wrong, just wondering why seemingly important details are left out.

habsheaven
09-30-2012, 01:00 PM
so he jumps off and she speeds away?
why was she doing this in the first place in my question?
all evidence so far points to her having some reason to try and get away from the police.

Yeah, he jumps off and she speeds away. Chances are she wouldn't get far considering witnesses and the man himself could probably ID the car. Was her offense punishable by death? I don't know about you but if I had to decide whether or not to let some one evade arrest or kill them, I would choose letting them get away unless the were an imment danger to the public.

Wickabee
09-30-2012, 01:11 PM
Yeah, he jumps off and she speeds away. Chances are she wouldn't get far considering witnesses and the man himself could probably ID the car. Was her offense punishable by death? I don't know about you but if I had to decide whether or not to let some one evade arrest or kill them, I would choose letting them get away unless the were an imment danger to the public.

How can you question the police so? I hope one day you need them. Then you can see the people you hate in action!

/satire

habsheaven
09-30-2012, 01:38 PM
I look at these incidents on a case-by-case basis. I do not have pre-conceived notions about law enforcement officials like some on here do.

Wickabee
09-30-2012, 01:40 PM
I look at these incidents on a case-by-case basis. I do not have pre-conceived notions about law enforcement officials like some on here do.

I see that. It's my experience that means you hate cops because you think it's possible for them to make mistakes and that not all of them are saints and angels.

At least, that's what I've been told.

themanishere
09-30-2012, 03:39 PM
So at one point he was on the hood, then on the roof? If he was tossed around that much, why would he hang on?

shrewsbury
09-30-2012, 04:25 PM
who here as been hit by a car, flew up on the hood, on a car at a high rate of speed that is swerving and trying to knock you off there?

did you jump off?

if so, lmk what was the outcome

Wickabee
09-30-2012, 06:46 PM
who here as been hit by a car, flew up on the hood, on a car at a high rate of speed that is swerving and trying to knock you off there?

did you jump off?

if so, lmk what was the outcome

Have you ever jumped on a moving vehicle?
If so lmk why?

theonedru
09-30-2012, 08:32 PM
You people are taking away from one big point

She was hiding something so bad she was willing to kill or be killed to defend it.

Why people sit here and defend the criminal element while constantly laying blame on the cops is making me wonder about people....

Wickabee
09-30-2012, 08:42 PM
You people are taking away from one big point

She was hiding something so bad she was willing to kill or be killed to defend it.

Why people sit here and defend the criminal element while constantly laying blame on the cops is making me wonder about people....

What was it she was hiding?

Wickabee
09-30-2012, 08:44 PM
I also have to wonder when "question" changed to mean "blame". When did that happen?

theonedru
09-30-2012, 09:07 PM
I also have to wonder when "question" changed to mean "blame". When did that happen?

people tend to ignore the obvious and go off on ridiculous tirades, fact is more blame lies with the dead woman that the agent, she was the one in the wrong, shes the one that wouldn't stop and yet people have the nerve to jump to her defense.... Normal sane law abiding citizens do not do what she did plain and simple

Wickabee
09-30-2012, 10:05 PM
people tend to ignore the obvious and go off on ridiculous tirades, fact is more blame lies with the dead woman that the agent, she was the one in the wrong, shes the one that wouldn't stop and yet people have the nerve to jump to her defense.... Normal sane law abiding citizens do not do what she did plain and simple
I have not seen one person defend her. I have not seen one person lay blame on the officer. I have seen people, and have myself, questioned the missing parts of the story and speculate on it, but that's all.

Some people do have a tendency to get overly sensitive when any questions arise regarding an officer.

habsheaven
09-30-2012, 10:12 PM
You people are taking away from one big point

She was hiding something so bad she was willing to kill or be killed to defend it.

Why people sit here and defend the criminal element while constantly laying blame on the cops is making me wonder about people....

How do you know she intended to kill anyone or that she knew she may be shot and killed? From what we have been told it is only apparent she wanted to evade being caught. She probably would have chosen capture and life over being killed if she was given the option.

Jaames
09-30-2012, 10:27 PM
Was the agent wearing a uniform or in plain clothes? If someone was on the front of my car and had a gun and I didn't know it was a cop I'd keep driving.

theonedru
09-30-2012, 10:35 PM
How do you know she intended to kill anyone or that she knew she may be shot and killed? From what we have been told it is only apparent she wanted to evade being caught. She probably would have chosen capture and life over being killed if she was given the option.

Bolded part - She would have stopped, thats kinda a no brainer there. A for the other part then why did she risk what she did, she knew the possible outcomes and so she dug her own grave. You do not use your car as a weapon against federal agents or put others lives at risk like she did.

Give us a scenario that goes to the agents side if you want to be impartial instead of arguing only for the dead criminal. Otherwise I just see you saying the agent was wrong and your sticking up for her poor actions & horrible judgement

Wickabee
09-30-2012, 10:58 PM
Bolded part - She would have stopped, thats kinda a no brainer there. A for the other part then why did she risk what she did, she knew the possible outcomes and so she dug her own grave. You do not use your car as a weapon against federal agents or put others lives at risk like she did.

Give us a scenario that goes to the agents side if you want to be impartial instead of arguing only for the dead criminal. Otherwise I just see you saying the agent was wrong and your sticking up for her poor actions & horrible judgement
OK. She was told to stop and kept inching. The officer stepped in front of the car and she decided, for whatever reason to speed up. Instead of jumping out of the way he jumped straight up and landed on the hood before rolling onto the roof. She got (more?) scared and floored it which led him to shoot in fear for his life.

Now my only question is, if the guy is blameless, why leave so much out?

habsheaven
10-01-2012, 08:12 AM
Bolded part - She would have stopped, thats kinda a no brainer there. A for the other part then why did she risk what she did, she knew the possible outcomes and so she dug her own grave. You do not use your car as a weapon against federal agents or put others lives at risk like she did.

Give us a scenario that goes to the agents side if you want to be impartial instead of arguing only for the dead criminal. Otherwise I just see you saying the agent was wrong and your sticking up for her poor actions & horrible judgement

To you it's a no-brainer. It's not that obvious to everyone. The article clearly states he was in "civilian" clothes. Maybe she thought she was being carjacked. If you go back and read my posts you will see I did give a scenario where the agent would be justified. When I was discussing the option of letting her evade or killing her I conceded that if she were a danger to society, allowing her to evade would not be an option. Why is it NO ONE on here can read anymore?

mrveggieman
10-01-2012, 09:48 AM
You people are taking away from one big point

She was hiding something so bad she was willing to kill or be killed to defend it.

Why people sit here and defend the criminal element while constantly laying blame on the cops is making me wonder about people....


You ever heard about a similiar story happening in the dc area? A plain clothes cop illegally followed a college student across state lines claiming that he was looking for a drug dealer then murdered him.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/19/AR2006011902346.html

shrewsbury
10-01-2012, 10:58 AM
here is something a bit more recent

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/queens/nypd_sarge_shot_VbCMKG9rrZ692vtvPAf8SK

and this one

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-01-31/news/31010711_1_cop-shot-brooklyn-north-anti-crime-unit-ortiz

and this one

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1346152/Baltimore-police-confirm-plainclothes-officer-killed-fellow-cops-outside-nightclub.html

Wickabee
10-01-2012, 11:03 AM
here is something a bit more recent

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/queens/nypd_sarge_shot_VbCMKG9rrZ692vtvPAf8SK

and this one

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-01-31/news/31010711_1_cop-shot-brooklyn-north-anti-crime-unit-ortiz

and this one

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1346152/Baltimore-police-confirm-plainclothes-officer-killed-fellow-cops-outside-nightclub.html

I'm certain there's a point hidden in there somewhere...

Star_Cards
10-01-2012, 01:24 PM
This is so bizarre. I head the story on the news but no details so this article is the first I had heard. The report this morning never said anything about him being on the hood while the woman was driving. Odd how that would not make it in. I'm curious as to how he got to the point of being on her car. Did she hit him? Did he jump up there while she was stopped because he tried to stop her? I'm not sure why he would be stopping anyone if he wasn't on the border. Although I have no idea what power a border patrolman has.

I can see that a person on the hood of a car would be in fear of their life if the driver was speeding off. It doesn't sound like this woman would have any reason to speed away with him on her hood, but don't know the entire story. I can see how he'd feel that pulling his gun out would be a possible solution to him not being killed. Although if he jumped on top of the car to try to stop her that was a pretty dumb move. I doubt that would have been in his training.

angel0430
10-01-2012, 01:27 PM
The agent was fearing for his life and he shot her. Totally legal and nothing wrong from his part. She needed to stop that car. plain and simple.

Star_Cards
10-01-2012, 01:31 PM
some are assuming he was hit? he could have jumped on while it was stopped. I've only seen one guy by a car in real life and others on youtube, but rarely that person hangs onto the car. It's possible I guess, but it a person is struck by a vehicle they aren't able to grab onto the car.

I still need more details to decide my stance on this.

Wickabee
10-01-2012, 01:32 PM
This is so bizarre. I head the story on the news but no details so this article is the first I had heard. The report this morning never said anything about him being on the hood while the woman was driving. Odd how that would not make it in. I'm curious as to how he got to the point of being on her car. Did she hit him? Did he jump up there while she was stopped because he tried to stop her? I'm not sure why he would be stopping anyone if he wasn't on the border. Although I have no idea what power a border patrolman has.

I can see that a person on the hood of a car would be in fear of their life if the driver was speeding off. It doesn't sound like this woman would have any reason to speed away with him on her hood, but don't know the entire story. I can see how he'd feel that pulling his gun out would be a possible solution to him not being killed. Although if he jumped on top of the car to try to stop her that was a pretty dumb move. I doubt that would have been in his training.

How dare you defend the dead woman who was obviously in the wrong, despite the fact we have very little to go on?
How dare you raise questions when the official explanation gave no details?
You must be bigoted against law enforcement.


Right, dru?

mrveggieman
10-01-2012, 01:37 PM
The agent was fearing for his life and he shot her. Totally legal and nothing wrong from his part. She needed to stop that car. plain and simple.


So if some guy in plain clothes jumps on your car you are going to stop and do whatever he says?

shrewsbury
10-01-2012, 01:43 PM
does he and others have guns?

Star_Cards
10-01-2012, 01:56 PM
The agent was fearing for his life and he shot her. Totally legal and nothing wrong from his part. She needed to stop that car. plain and simple.

what if she didn't know he was an agent? not sure if it was the case in this instance, but I don;t think it's always as black and white as you make it out to be.

mrveggieman
10-01-2012, 01:58 PM
does he and others have guns?

If some guy with a gun in plain clothes comes up to me I'm going to assume the worst. I am going to treat the situation as if he is going to try to kill me. I am going to do whatever I have to do to defend my life.

Wickabee
10-01-2012, 02:01 PM
I think the biggest question is why leave out all details leading to the shooting in a case like this. I understand, "he ran and I shot him". I get that and it needs no real explanation. However, "I was riding the hood/roof of her car and had to shoot her" requires more details to be fully taken without a grain of salt.
How did he get on the hood? Or roof? Which was it? Both? Did she do something to provoke him jumping on her car, or did he pull a Wesley Snipes-type move? Was he already there when she started going? Why did he feel the need to get on her car?

These are the questions that have gone completely unanswered to this point. I'm not saying they point to an officer's guilt, but they don't really point to her's either. What they do indicate is possible cover-up and definite omission. I have to ask again, if there is no fault on the officer, why leave out such important details and just tell everyone, "We shot some chick"?

shrewsbury
10-01-2012, 03:30 PM
would you not have a better chance confronting him on foot then you in a car and him on the hood with a gun?

Wickabee
10-01-2012, 03:33 PM
would you not have a better chance confronting him on foot then you in a car and him on the hood with a gun?

If she wanted confrontation, yes.
If she didn't and some dude with no uniform jumped on her car...welll...

I can tell you I'd have a better time believing the story as told if there weren't so many questions left unanswered.

Star_Cards
10-01-2012, 04:09 PM
I think the biggest question is why leave out all details leading to the shooting in a case like this. I understand, "he ran and I shot him". I get that and it needs no real explanation. However, "I was riding the hood/roof of her car and had to shoot her" requires more details to be fully taken without a grain of salt.
How did he get on the hood? Or roof? Which was it? Both? Did she do something to provoke him jumping on her car, or did he pull a Wesley Snipes-type move? Was he already there when she started going? Why did he feel the need to get on her car?

These are the questions that have gone completely unanswered to this point. I'm not saying they point to an officer's guilt, but they don't really point to her's either. What they do indicate is possible cover-up and definite omission. I have to ask again, if there is no fault on the officer, why leave out such important details and just tell everyone, "We shot some chick"?

agree... way to many unanswered questions at this point to weigh in with opinions.

Wickabee
10-01-2012, 04:26 PM
agree... way to many unanswered questions at this point to weigh in with opinions.

The biggest question in my mind is why is so much left out? If the officer is totally innocent, why not tell the whole story? Or are we just to believe there was no wrongdoing without proof because "he's an officer!"?