PDA

View Full Version : Judge halts PA voter ID law



mrveggieman
10-02-2012, 01:15 PM
Thank God for this. Common sense prevails. Hopefully the other states will follow suit.

http://news.yahoo.com/judge-halts-pa-tough-voter-id-requirement-135928620.html

Wickabee
10-02-2012, 01:25 PM
So Romney is going to lose Pennsylvania then. Okay.

mrveggieman
10-02-2012, 01:38 PM
So Romney is going to lose Pennsylvania then. Okay.


If this were a fair election Obama would win in a landslide no questions asked. However the republicans have already showed their hand and pretty much told the American people that they are willing to steal this election. We cannot rest until after election night when President Obama rightfully and is legally re-elected. Anything else would be a travesty of justice.

shrewsbury
10-02-2012, 01:41 PM
veggie, you live in a strange place.

how you think that it is ok for anyone 18 or over not to have some form of ID for anything is ok i will never understand.

mrveggieman
10-02-2012, 01:53 PM
veggie, you live in a strange place.

how you think that it is ok for anyone 18 or over not to have some form of ID for anything is ok i will never understand.

Having an ID is not an issue. It's having to pay the gov't for an item that is required in order to vote which is a violation of the 24th amendment. In the words of one of my favorite politicians Dr. Ron Paul, "Read the constitution!!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibJfK1XfY8w

Wickabee
10-02-2012, 01:55 PM
veggie, you live in a strange place.

how you think that it is ok for anyone 18 or over not to have some form of ID for anything is ok i will never understand.

Remind me again why the Republicans are so gung ho on fixing a problem that doesn't really exist (except for absentee ballots but, funny enough, those usually favour Republicans...funny how they're not too worried about that one...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuOT1bRYdK8

Are you sure that's why?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuOT1bRYdK8

Ok, understood.

JustAlex
10-02-2012, 02:33 PM
So Romney is going to lose Pennsylvania then. Okay.
He was going to lose regardless.

Obama has a SOLID 12 point lead in PA.

Even with the fraudulent voter ID laws, they weren't going to make that up.

pghin08
10-02-2012, 02:54 PM
What I want to know is how the voter ID law addressed absentee ballots.

mrveggieman
10-02-2012, 03:04 PM
What I want to know is how the voter ID law addressed absentee ballots.


Or rigged voting machines?

pghin08
10-02-2012, 03:27 PM
I looked up what was necessary to vote in PA via an absentee ballot (if the law would have passed):

Unless a voter is in the military or living overseas and applying for an absentee ballot, the voter must prove his/her identity by providing one of the following on an application for an absentee ballot:

1. The voter’s driver’s license number or PennDOT photo ID number, or
2. The last four digits of the voter’s Social Security number (if he/she doesn’t have a driver’s license), or
3. A copy of any photo ID that would be acceptable if the voter were voting in person at the polls (See Question A. in theprevious section (http://www.seventy.org/Elections_Voter_ID_Issues_for_All_Voters_Voting_In _Person_at_the_Polls.aspx)), or
4. A non-photo driver’s license or other non-photo ID issued by PennDOT (if the voter has a religious objection to being photographed).

This was my favorite. If you vote in person, you need a photo ID so that someone can verify that in fact, you are who you say you are (somewhere Dennis Green just yelled "THEY ARE WHO WE THOUGHT THEY WERE"). If you vote via an absentee ballot, all you need is the last four digits of your SS number. No "photo proof". So the PA voter ID law essentially wouldn't apply to those who fill out absentee ballots.

mrveggieman
10-02-2012, 03:41 PM
So shrew how would you go about countering fraud from absentee voting? I hear crickets chirping.....

Wickabee
10-02-2012, 04:38 PM
I looked up what was necessary to vote in PA via an absentee ballot (if the law would have passed):

Unless a voter is in the military or living overseas and applying for an absentee ballot, the voter must prove his/her identity by providing one of the following on an application for an absentee ballot:

1. The voterís driverís license number or PennDOT photo ID number, or
2. The last four digits of the voterís Social Security number (if he/she doesnít have a driverís license), or
3. A copy of any photo ID that would be acceptable if the voter were voting in person at the polls (See Question A. in theprevious section (http://www.seventy.org/Elections_Voter_ID_Issues_for_All_Voters_Voting_In _Person_at_the_Polls.aspx)), or
4. A non-photo driverís license or other non-photo ID issued by PennDOT (if the voter has a religious objection to being photographed).

This was my favorite. If you vote in person, you need a photo ID so that someone can verify that in fact, you are who you say you are (somewhere Dennis Green just yelled "THEY ARE WHO WE THOUGHT THEY WERE"). If you vote via an absentee ballot, all you need is the last four digits of your SS number. No "photo proof". So the PA voter ID law essentially wouldn't apply to those who fill out absentee ballots.

And since very little voter fraud happens in person and the majority of voter fraud happens through absentee balloting, how exactly does this law help against voter fraud?


Do I have to post the clip again?

AUTaxMan
10-02-2012, 05:25 PM
Having an ID is not an issue. It's having to pay the gov't for an item that is required in order to vote which is a violation of the 24th amendment. In the words of one of my favorite politicians Dr. Ron Paul, "Read the constitution!!"

So if they gave out the ids for free, you would be ok with it?

Wickabee
10-02-2012, 05:30 PM
So if they gave out the ids for free, you would be ok with it?

Would its purpose still be to "allow Governor Romney to take Pennsylvania"?

AUTaxMan
10-02-2012, 06:02 PM
Would its purpose still be to "allow Governor Romney to take Pennsylvania"?

Bold prediction of the day: If Romney wins the election, mrv will say that he cheated/broke laws/disenfranchised minorities/rigged machines/paid-off poll watchers/flew black helicopters to do so.

Wickabee
10-02-2012, 06:07 PM
Bold prediction of the day: If Romney wins the election, mrv will say that he cheated/broke laws/disenfranchised minorities/rigged machines/paid-off poll watchers/flew black helicopters to do so.

I don't see how that's supposed to answer the question. Not saying I disagree, frankly, I don't (I won't say whether he'll be wrong or not, I don't know that), but yeah, doesn't answer my question at all.

Or have you just not seen the clip?

AUTaxMan
10-02-2012, 06:08 PM
I don't see how that's supposed to answer the question. Not saying I disagree, frankly, I don't (I won't say whether he'll be wrong or not, I don't know that), but yeah, doesn't answer my question at all.

Or have you just not seen the clip?

Don't know what you are talking about. Thought you were being sarcastic.

Wickabee
10-02-2012, 06:15 PM
No, it was a genuine question. Here's the clip again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuOT1bRYdK8



thoughts?

habsheaven
10-02-2012, 08:52 PM
I watched that video for the first time tonight. It really doesn't say a whole lot. His contention could be that Obama will win if there are no voter id laws to stop voter fraud. Therefore, this law will allow Romney to win because it will eliminate voter fraud. IMO, it's a ridiculous claim, but many Republicans continue to preach it. I find it hard to believe that the guy said what he said with the meaning being, "these new voter id laws will prevent Obama supporters from voting and hence Romney will win". He may very well believe that, but when he made the comment I doubt that was the reasoning he wanted his audience to come away with.

Wickabee
10-02-2012, 09:55 PM
I watched that video for the first time tonight. It really doesn't say a whole lot. His contention could be that Obama will win if there are no voter id laws to stop voter fraud. Therefore, this law will allow Romney to win because it will eliminate voter fraud.
So you're saying his claim could possibly be that voter fraud is only a problem with Democrats? That's a pretty strong claim. The thing about it is, in person voter fraud is not exactly common and absentee voter fraud is more of a problem. Yet the voter ID laws only really affect the in person voters while absentee ballots, which are used more by the right. So, if absentee ballots are a bigger problem than in person ballots, wouldn't anyone genuinely concerned with voter fraud instead of, say, winning an election at all costs, go after absentee voter fraud before in person?

In short, I don't believe his claim is anything other than it appears to be. Voter ID laws favour the Republican party. I believe that because there is no real problem to begin with. The actual numbers of voting fraud are staggeringly low.


IMO, it's a ridiculous claim, but many Republicans continue to preach it. I find it hard to believe that the guy said what he said with the meaning being, "these new voter id laws will prevent Obama supporters from voting and hence Romney will win". He may very well believe that, but when he made the comment I doubt that was the reasoning he wanted his audience to come away with.

There is no other reasoning for the law, never mind why he would say that.

habsheaven
10-03-2012, 11:33 AM
So you're saying his claim could possibly be that voter fraud is only a problem with Democrats? That's a pretty strong claim. The thing about it is, in person voter fraud is not exactly common and absentee voter fraud is more of a problem. Yet the voter ID laws only really affect the in person voters while absentee ballots, which are used more by the right. So, if absentee ballots are a bigger problem than in person ballots, wouldn't anyone genuinely concerned with voter fraud instead of, say, winning an election at all costs, go after absentee voter fraud before in person?

In short, I don't believe his claim is anything other than it appears to be. Voter ID laws favour the Republican party. I believe that because there is no real problem to begin with. The actual numbers of voting fraud are staggeringly low.



There is no other reasoning for the law, never mind why he would say that.

I agree with you. I was just trying to give the obvious GOP defense of the video. As absurd as that defense is.

Wickabee
10-03-2012, 11:34 AM
Aut?

Wickabee
10-03-2012, 11:45 AM
I agree with you. I was just trying to give the obvious GOP defense of the video. As absurd as that defense is.

No, I get you. I forgot to mention, he was speaking to a room full of Republicans. My guess would be he forgot there was a camera, or just didn't think of it.

AUTaxMan
10-03-2012, 12:11 PM
Aut?

All it looks like to me is that he thinks the voter fraud in PA will be so prevalent without the law that PA will swing to Obama when it would have otherwise gone to Romney.

pghin08
10-03-2012, 12:32 PM
All it looks like to me is that he thinks the voter fraud in PA will be so prevalent without the law that PA will swing to Obama when it would have otherwise gone to Romney.

If he actually thinks that, he's a whole new level of moron.

Wickabee
10-03-2012, 12:36 PM
All it looks like to me is that he thinks the voter fraud in PA will be so prevalent without the law that PA will swing to Obama when it would have otherwise gone to Romney.

Considering every single group that has looked into it, be they Democrat, Republican or neutral, agrees that in-person voter fraud is a non-problem, I find that hard to believe.