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Gorillawits
10-10-2012, 01:00 PM
Through out the Tanahk it states that Israel will have the monarchy restored. In Ezekiel 37 it states that a christian descended from David and Joseph will be put on the thrown of Israel. Israel may have come back as a nation but they are still dry dead bones. They reject God as the creator and embrace secular paganism.


If you had the chance to become the future King Of Israel, how would you deal with the Palestinians, Israels surrounding enemy's and the paganism that reigns over Israel right now?

mrveggieman
10-10-2012, 01:06 PM
Through out the Tanahk it states that Israel will have the monarchy restored. In Ezekiel 37 it states that a christian descended from David and Joseph will be put on the thrown of Israel. Israel may have come back as a nation but they are still dry dead bones. They reject God as the creator and embrace secular paganism.

If you had the chance to become King Of Israel, how would you deal with the Palastians, Israels surrounding enemy's and the paganism that reigns over Israel right now?

If it were up to me I would divide Israel up into 3 sections. Normally I am against segregation but generally speaking those people over there do not get along and it may be a good idea to seperate them. The first section would be just for Jews. The second excusively for Palestians the third area would be neutral territory that anyone is free to enter and live. If you go into one of the two terriorities that is not for you, you will be immediately arrested. Also if you do something stupid in the neutral terrority such as commiting a hate crime or act of terror if you live through it you will be tourted and executed. As far as what the bible says we cannot base secular policy on a religious book. That is why those people are having all the problems that they are now.

Gorillawits
10-10-2012, 01:12 PM
If it were up to me I would divide Israel up into 3 sections. Normally I am against segregation but generally speaking those people over there do not get along and it may be a good idea to seperate them. The first section would be just for Jews. The second excusively for Palestians the third area would be neutral territory that anyone is free to enter and live. If you go into one of the two terriorities that is not for you, you will be immediately arrested. Also if you do something stupid in the neutral terrority such as commiting a hate crime or act of terror if you live through it you will be tourted and executed. As far as what the bible says we cannot base secular policy on a religious book. That is why those people are having all the problems that they are now.


I was asking Christians. Basically you are saying you would just like Israel being pagan like the rest of the world is.

duane1969
10-10-2012, 01:26 PM
If it were up to me I would divide Israel up into 3 sections. Normally I am against segregation but generally speaking those people over there do not get along and it may be a good idea to seperate them. The first section would be just for Jews. The second excusively for Palestians the third area would be neutral territory that anyone is free to enter and live. If you go into one of the two terriorities that is not for you, you will be immediately arrested. Also if you do something stupid in the neutral terrority such as commiting a hate crime or act of terror if you live through it you will be tourted and executed. As far as what the bible says we cannot base secular policy on a religious book. That is why those people are having all the problems that they are now.

I wouldn't call that segregation as much as I would call it a safety zone. That would be simply creating an area where the people of a certain group can be unaccosted and safe.

While I like your idea, the simple reality is that it wouldn't last for long. It would only be a matter of time until they found an excuse to attack the Jewish designated area. Whether it be the former location of some mosque that they feel they have a right to or some water fountain that Muhammad drank from during his trip to Mecca that they think is a holy place, they would find an excuse to attack and kill Jews.

For that matter, the entire region has been one big battlefield for centuries. War and killing have become an ingrained part of their culture. I truly don't believe that peace is possible in the Middle East in general and between Israel and Palestine specifically. Pick two random Middle eastern countries and it is a virtual guarantee that they have been in some form of war with each other.

So what can be done? Give them boith equal access to weapons and get out of the way until the smoke clears. Peace is not possible.

--------------------------------------------------

To the OPs question, I am not sure that I buy into the "pagan" description. Just because it isn't secular Christianity doesn't make it paganism.

Gorillawits
10-10-2012, 01:34 PM
--------------------------------------------------

To the OPs question, I am not sure that I buy into the "pagan" description. Just because it isn't secular Christianity doesn't make it paganism.[/QUOTE]


Where does the bible speak of secular Christianity? Israel embraces the teachings of the Talmud and reject the Law of Moses. Israel calls on Ashtoreth to save them instead of Yahweh. That is paganism according to the Hebrew scriptures.

mrveggieman
10-10-2012, 01:40 PM
I was asking Christians. Basically you are saying you would just like Israel being pagan like the rest of the world is.


I'm sorry but I must have missed the memo that P&R was only open to members of certian demographic groups. :rolleyes:

Gorillawits
10-10-2012, 01:43 PM
I'm sorry but I must have missed the memo that P&R was only open to members of certian demographic groups. :rolleyes:


Question for christians about Israels returning monarchy (http://www.sportscardforum.com/threads/1770375-Question-for-christians-about-Israels-returning-monarchy)

pghin08
10-10-2012, 01:53 PM
Aren't you a Christian, Mr. V?

Gorillawits
10-10-2012, 01:56 PM
Aren't you a Christian, Mr. V?

If I understood his first post, he said he does not follow the bible and want secular rule over Israel, so there is no way possible for him to be a christian if that is what he meant.

mrveggieman
10-10-2012, 02:17 PM
If I understood his first post, he said he does not follow the bible and want secular rule over Israel, so there is no way possible for him to be a christian if that is what he meant.

I never said that I don't follow the bible. I was saying that you can not apply religious law to secular non religious situations. I do however take some of the stuff in their with a grain of salt just like how every other christian does. And yes PGH you can call me a christian albiet a moderate one but with they way some of these clowns who claim to be christians represent christanity they often make me hold my head in shame.

Gorillawits
10-10-2012, 02:29 PM
I never said that I don't follow the bible. I was saying that you can not apply religious law to secular non religious situations. I do however take some of the stuff in their with a grain of salt just like how every other christian does. And yes PGH you can call me a christian albiet a moderate one but with they way some of these clowns who claim to be christians represent christanity they often make me hold my head in shame.


You are basically saying had you lived in the time of Moses and Joshua you would have apposed the Law. You would have joined the men who worshiped the Golden calf and been slaughtered when Moses drew a line in the sand and wiped out those who refused to obey God.

Every time Israel refused to obey God their enemy's made them suffer. When they turned to God, He gave them miracles and they slighted their enemy so they could have peace.

The Land belongs to Israel, if you apply secularism to Israel then you had over the land to your enemy's and they keep killing you. What did Sharon's foolishness do to help Israel when he gave land away?


Had you lived when Joshua was taking back the land you would have opposed him telling him he can not obey God.

mrveggieman
10-10-2012, 03:20 PM
You are basically saying had you lived in the time of Moses and Joshua you would have apposed the Law. You would have joined the men who worshiped the Golden calf and been slaughtered when Moses drew a line in the sand and wiped out those who refused to obey God.

Every time Israel refused to obey God their enemy's made them suffer. When they turned to God, He gave them miracles and they slighted their enemy so they could have peace.

The Land belongs to Israel, if you apply secularism to Israel then you had over the land to your enemy's and they keep killing you. What did Sharon's foolishness do to help Israel when he gave land away?


Had you lived when Joshua was taking back the land you would have opposed him telling him he can not obey God.


Neither you or I can say what we would have done back then because we weren't there. As for today I live under freedom of religion. Now granted most middle eastern countries don't have freedom of religion and are suffering because of it. You are suggesting that Israel shouldn't have freedom of religion either just but simply switch to the religion that you prefer and poof all their problems will disappear by switching from one religious dictatorship to another. Again you conservatives cant have it both ways. Either you are for all of our rights including freedom of religion or you are against all of our rights including the right to bear arms.

Also if you really want to get deep the country that you live in does lot belong to the United States but to the Native Americans. If you are in favor of kicking the Palestins out and/or forcing them to convert to another religion you should practice what you preach, leave the united states and give everything that you ever owned over here back to them.

Wickabee
10-10-2012, 03:57 PM
Mr. Wits. What he is saying is when you have a society with religious freedom that includes the freedom to no religion and, as such, you can't make laws based on one religion or another.

With that said, the person I most agree with in this thread is...Duane...weird...

mrveggieman
10-10-2012, 04:11 PM
Mr. Wits. What he is saying is when you have a society with religious freedom that includes the freedom to no religion and, as such, you can't make laws based on one religion or another.

...

Why is this so hard for some people on here to understand?

Wickabee
10-10-2012, 04:54 PM
It's easier if you actually want to understand instead of wanting your ideas imposed on everyone else.

Gorillawits
10-10-2012, 09:43 PM
Neither you or I can say what we would have done back then because we weren't there. As for today I live under freedom of religion. Now granted most middle eastern countries don't have freedom of religion and are suffering because of it. You are suggesting that Israel shouldn't have freedom of religion either just but simply switch to the religion that you prefer and poof all their problems will disappear by switching from one religious dictatorship to another. Again you conservatives cant have it both ways. Either you are for all of our rights including freedom of religion or you are against all of our rights including the right to bear arms.

Also if you really want to get deep the country that you live in does lot belong to the United States but to the Native Americans. If you are in favor of kicking the Palestins out and/or forcing them to convert to another religion you should practice what you preach, leave the united states and give everything that you ever owned over here back to them.

My great grandmother was a full blooded native American so by your logic this is my homeland. I am also Jewish so Israel is also my homeland. You oppose What Moses said right now, so you would have opposed Moses at the time of Exodus.

Israel should have freedom of religion to worship in your own home. Out in Public the Mosques should be shut down because they are pagan temples and the Tanakh forbids pagan temples and altars in Israel. If A Muslim wants to Worship Allah they have to do it at home. The Dome of the Rock should be torn apart piece by piece and placed on a boat. The Muslims can reconstruct the Dome after they take a vote which country they want it placed in.

The church of the Holy Seplacure should have all the pagan symbols removed or it to would have to be torn down and the Orthodox can decide where they want it.

The Palestinians should be rounded up by the Israel Military and Hamas Terrorists who refuse to surrender should be killed in battle by the Military. The pagan nations that love the Palestinians can take them in. You can open your door to them since you claim to care for the ones that hate Israel. The minority of Palestinians who want to follow the Laws of Israel can be allowed to stay.

Once the door is opened that evil men closed, I will leave the United States ASAP and you can stay here and hate Jesus all you want.


Mr. Wits. What he is saying is when you have a society with religious freedom that includes the freedom to no religion and, as such, you can't make laws based on one religion or another.

With that said, the person I most agree with in this thread is...Duane...weird...

Wickabee what he is saying is he hates the bible and loves evil men causing problems in Israel.


Why is this so hard for some people on here to understand?

Why is so hard for people to stop calling themselves Christians until they finally submit to Jesus?


It's easier if you actually want to understand instead of wanting your ideas imposed on everyone else.

Its easy to understand that you want to impose secular humanism onto everyone else.

This post was asking Christians what they would do, I already know devil worshipers want Israel to hate Jesus, break God's laws and be pagan like the rest of the world.

Wickabee
10-11-2012, 12:06 AM
You obviously haven't a clue what veg is saying.

Gorillawits
10-11-2012, 01:39 AM
You obviously haven't a clue what veg is saying.

I have all the clues, you just want to force your secular views onto me.

mrveggieman
10-11-2012, 09:43 AM
You obviously haven't a clue what veg is saying.

Hell Gorilla dosen't have a clue of what is coming out of his own mouth. Pat Robertson would even shake his head at his nonsense.

habsheaven
10-11-2012, 09:55 AM
Could you imagine putting up with all this nonsense in your everyday life? I get tired just reading this nonsense.

mrveggieman
10-11-2012, 10:13 AM
Question for christians about Israels returning monarchy (http://www.sportscardforum.com/threads/1770375-Question-for-christians-about-Israels-returning-monarchy)




Per your standards you are the only true christian. So essentially you would be just like clint eastwood and would be having a conversation with yourself.

Gorillawits
10-11-2012, 11:03 AM
Hell Gorilla dosen't have a clue of what is coming out of his own mouth. Pat Robertson would even shake his head at his nonsense.

Pat Roberston is a charlatan, the 700 club is pagan group that pocketts large portions of donations sent to them. That is how Pat got $100,000,000 in the bank. They preach the new age "power of the mind" just like atheist Drs and Pyscatrists do. The only reason papal pat got onto TV is because his freemason bretheran know he preaches garbage.

You don't even beleive the bible, your just and atheist who runs aroung trying to get people to oppose the what scripture says.

Clint Eastwood is not a christian, he slept around with countless woman having children out of wedlock. Hugh Jackman is his biological son and Justin Timberlake is his grandson (that is why Timberlake just did a movie with Eastwood). Eastwood may have made Obama look stupid by his chair gig, but he opposes Christ so you both should get along pretty well.

mrveggieman
10-11-2012, 11:24 AM
Pat Roberston is a charlatan, the 700 club is pagan group that pocketts large portions of donations sent to them. That is how Pat got $100,000,000 in the bank. They preach the new age "power of the mind" just like atheist Drs and Pyscatrists do. The only reason papal pat got onto TV is because his freemason bretheran know he preaches garbage.

You don't even beleive the bible, your just and atheist who runs aroung trying to get people to oppose the what scripture says.

Clint Eastwood is not a christian, he slept around with countless woman having children out of wedlock. Hugh Jackman is his biological son and Justin Timberlake is his grandson (that is why Timberlake just did a movie with Eastwood). Eastwood may have made Obama look stupid by his chair gig, but he opposes Christ so you both should get along pretty well.

You do not know a thing about me or what I believe in. It is obvious about your post you do not have a clue about christanity or christians either. Reading your post is the equivilent of reading the weekly world news.

Wickabee
10-11-2012, 11:32 AM
Clint Eastwood only made Clint Eastwood look stupid. President Obama wasn't even there. Though it wouldn't surprise me if GW saw him sitting there.

Gorillawits
10-11-2012, 11:39 AM
You do not know a thing about me or what I believe in. It is obvious about your post you do not have a clue about christanity or christians either. Reading your post is the equivilent of reading the weekly world news.

1. you openly oppose Israel having the land God gave them
2.you oppose the law of Moses, which Christ did not eradicate
3. you support ungodly men for office who backstab, steal and murder.
4. you say Jesus loves sin and wants people to keep sinning
5. you mock anything that is christain with your "church" comment

You will know them by their fruits.

mrveggieman
10-11-2012, 11:55 AM
1. you openly oppose Israel having the land God gave them

I oppose anyone having their land invaded by a foreign army regardless of what their religion is or the invader's religion.

2.you oppose the law of Moses, which Christ did not eradicate

Wrong again. I am the one who still goes by the Kosher dietary laws and always calls christians out for ignoring the OT because the NT is more convenient for them.

3. you support ungodly men for office who backstab, steal and murder.

How old are you 12? What politican regardless of office or political party dosen't backstab or steal? Murder may be a stretch but politicans are not Gods so stop trying to make them out the be bigger than what they are.

4. you say Jesus loves sin and wants people to keep sinning

Another lie. Never said that.

5. you mock anything that is christain with your "church" comment

How is that mocking anyone. If you say CHURCH!! you are agreeing with them. Both Christians and non Christians do it. Again you are showing everyone your complete lack of knowledge about christanity.

You will know them by their fruits.

Responses in bold

Wickabee
10-11-2012, 12:23 PM
Christ did not eradicate the law of Moses, he fulfilled it, rendering it meaningless the second Christ died.

AUTaxMan
10-11-2012, 12:30 PM
Christ did not eradicate the law of Moses, he fulfilled it, rendering it meaningless the second Christ died.

Wickabee 1, GW 0

Gorillawits
10-11-2012, 12:54 PM
Christ did not eradicate the law of Moses, he fulfilled it, rendering it meaningless the second Christ died.

So that is why you support nambla, abortion and gay sex. You think christ death gives you a free pass to sin and serve satan.


Wickabee 1, GW 0


Wickabee 1 (for satan), GW 0 (0 for satan) AUTaxMan (1 for cheerleading for satan)

Wickabee
10-11-2012, 01:11 PM
Can we make a rule where GW gets banned for a day every time he lies? By my count he'd be gone for the next 4 months just on today's posts alone.

mrveggieman
10-11-2012, 01:27 PM
Can we make a rule where GW gets banned for a day every time he lies? By my count he'd be gone for the next 4 months just on today's posts alone.

No he would just come back under his assumed names jessejordan and the other alias that he uses.

Gorillawits
10-11-2012, 01:31 PM
No he would just come back under his assumed names jessejordan and the other alias that he uses.

Why would I want to come back as anyone other then Gorillawits? I have used this name for over a decade cause I liked the name (georgoes gorilalwits) that I heard on an episode of droopy.

AUTaxMan
10-11-2012, 01:35 PM
No he would just come back under his assumed names jessejordan and the other alias that he uses.

Pretty sure he consistently sticks with gorillawits. Just google the name to see what I mean.

mrveggieman
10-11-2012, 01:47 PM
Pretty sure he consistently sticks with gorillawits. Just google the name to see what I mean.

Yeah I found his thoughts on an atheist marriage.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090321184447AAiN9oF

Wow gorrilla. Atheists couldn't care less about God and religion that's why they are atheists. You amuse me more and more each day with your online posts. Please continue with them. I can use the daily laughter.

AUTaxMan
10-11-2012, 01:49 PM
Back to topic (I think):

“Zionists only understand the language of force and will not relent without duress,” Badie said. “This will only happen through holy Jihad, high sacrifices and all forms of resistance. The day they realize we will march this path and raise the banner of Jihad for the sake of God, is the day they will relent and stop their tyranny.” - Mohammed Badie, the Supreme Guide of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt

He went on to say that “The time has come for the Islamic nation to unite around one man for the sake of Jerusalem and Palestine. The Jews have dominated the land, spread corruption on earth, spilled the blood of believers and in their actions profaned holy places, including their own.”


Diplomacy has no chance over there.

mrveggieman
10-11-2012, 01:51 PM
Back to topic (I think):

“Zionists only understand the language of force and will not relent without duress,” Badie said. “This will only happen through holy Jihad, high sacrifices and all forms of resistance. The day they realize we will march this path and raise the banner of Jihad for the sake of God, is the day they will relent and stop their tyranny.” - Mohammed Badie, the Supreme Guide of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt

He went on to say that “The time has come for the Islamic nation to unite around one man for the sake of Jerusalem and Palestine. The Jews have dominated the land, spread corruption on earth, spilled the blood of believers and in their actions profaned holy places, including their own.”


Diplomacy has no chance over there.

It goes back to my point that those people cannot get along and must be seperated. On the cool even though we have a racial problem in America it is somewhat minor compared to what they have to go through. I'm glad that I'm here instead of over there.

Wickabee
10-11-2012, 02:13 PM
Why would I want to come back as anyone other then Gorillawits? I have used this name for over a decade cause I liked the name (georgoes gorilalwits) that I heard on an episode of droopy.
You almost sound human here.

Gorillawits
10-11-2012, 03:59 PM
Yeah I found his thoughts on an atheist marriage.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090321184447AAiN9oF

Wow gorrilla. Atheists couldn't care less about God and religion that's why they are atheists. You amuse me more and more each day with your online posts. Please continue with them. I can use the daily laughter.


Yes atheists are admitting God is real when they get married because God started marriage. If atheist were not admitting God was real, they would just call their partner a "mate" or something similar.



Back to topic (I think):

“Zionists only understand the language of force and will not relent without duress,” Badie said. “This will only happen through holy Jihad, high sacrifices and all forms of resistance. The day they realize we will march this path and raise the banner of Jihad for the sake of God, is the day they will relent and stop their tyranny.” - Mohammed Badie, the Supreme Guide of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt

He went on to say that “The time has come for the Islamic nation to unite around one man for the sake of Jerusalem and Palestine. The Jews have dominated the land, spread corruption on earth, spilled the blood of believers and in their actions profaned holy places, including their own.”


Diplomacy has no chance over there.

That is why you have to throw the Palestinians out of Israel that are causing problems. The ones who refuse to live in peace with Israel can be thrown out and the nations of the world can open their doors since they claim to "care" for them so much.

Russian can take a large portion of them since they like supplying them with anti Tank armored piercing RPG Rounds to test out on the Merkava Tanks. Then Israel can defend its borders against these wackos nations.

Israel is no where close to its ancient borders. You could take land back every time a Muslim fired a missile or RPG round over the border. If the nations handed over the men that started shooting then no land would have to be taken.

Its quite simple, stop shooting over the border at Israel and they can be at peace.

duwal
10-11-2012, 04:02 PM
Yeah I found his thoughts on an atheist marriage.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090321184447AAiN9oF

Wow gorrilla. Atheists couldn't care less about God and religion that's why they are atheists. You amuse me more and more each day with your online posts. Please continue with them. I can use the daily laughter.


yeah I was laughing when he sent me a private message condemning me for worshiping satan. Its like pal, I don't believe in any of that. Someone that actually thinks that there is something as evil as a satan or devil is even worse than an athiest that doesn't think any of that exists

mrveggieman
10-11-2012, 04:12 PM
Yes atheists are admitting God is real when they get married because God started marriage. If atheist were not admitting God was real, they would just call their partner a "mate" or something similar.

Now they are not they are getting married for tax and insurance benefits. An atheist is an atheist because they do not believe in, acknowldge or quite frankly give a damn about God.




That is why you have to throw the Palestinians out of Israel that are causing problems. The ones who refuse to live in peace with Israel can be thrown out and the nations of the world can open their doors since they claim to "care" for them so much.

Russian can take a large portion of them since they like supplying them with anti Tank armored piercing RPG Rounds to test out on the Merkava Tanks. Then Israel can defend its borders against these wackos nations.

Israel is no where close to its ancient borders. You could take land back every time a Muslim fired a missile or RPG round over the border. If the nations handed over the men that started shooting then no land would have to be taken.

So using that same logic throw out everyone out of the USA who is not a Native American. I'm sure that will be just a good an idea as what you propose for Israel.

Its quite simple, stop shooting over the border at Israel and they can be at peace.


Response in bold.

Gorillawits
10-11-2012, 04:24 PM
yeah I was laughing when he sent me a private message condemning me for worshiping satan. Its like pal, I don't believe in any of that. Someone that actually thinks that there is something as evil as a satan or devil is even worse than an athiest that doesn't think any of that exists

No you go around judging people not even willing to give one thing wrong with the person. Lets see here I am not sane because you don't like me, simple as that right?

Gorillawits
10-11-2012, 04:31 PM
Now they are not they are getting married for tax and insurance benefits. An atheist is an atheist because they do not believe in, acknowldge or quite frankly give a damn about God.


So using that same logic throw out everyone out of the USA who is not a Native American. I'm sure that will be just a good an idea as what you propose for Israel.
.

No if the atheist want benefits they can push for "mate" benefits.

Sorry you can not put your "Logic" on to me. I never said thrown out everyone who is not Jewish for Israel. I said throw out all the "trouble makers" I have seen plenty of Palestinians get bombed for trying to live in peace with the Jews.

You seem to think someone willing to obey Jewish law so they can stay in Israel is the same as a terrorist who blows up innocent children.

Wickabee
10-11-2012, 04:49 PM
It's religious persecution, GW, and it's wrong. Jesus is against any persecution.

Gorillawits
10-11-2012, 05:45 PM
It's religious persecution, GW, and it's wrong. Jesus is against any persecution.

So you like Muslims being able to blow up children because Maitreya told you so?

Wickabee
10-11-2012, 06:02 PM
So you like Muslims being able to blow up children because Maitreya told you so?

Maitreya has never told me anything. I don't like Muslims being able to do those things it's a part of the religion I do not agree with. However, I am also sane enough to recognize that there are many, many Muslims in the world who also do not agree with it, much as many Christians do not agree it's wrong to eat bacon, despite the Bible saying it is.

You're mad at a religion. That's stupid. A religion can only be as bad as what individuals do with it, kind of like a gun. It's not dangerous until someone shoots. If you were shot, would you be angry at the gun or the person holding it. Hating a religion or everyone in a religion makes as much sense as getting mad at the gun.

That's all I'm saying. Personally, I think all religions are just as bad as each other and not one of them serves God. But that's just me.

duwal
10-11-2012, 06:05 PM
No you go around judging people not even willing to give one thing wrong with the person. Lets see here I am not sane because you don't like me, simple as that right?


its more than one thing because of your spew to Wickabee about his supporting the anti-christ, your homophobic rant of him supporting 'Gay lust' (otherwise known as two adults in love), your overall list, etc., etc...

Gorillawits
10-11-2012, 06:11 PM
its more than one thing because of your spew to Wickabee about his supporting the anti-christ, your homophobic rant of him supporting 'Gay lust' (otherwise known as two adults in love), your overall list, etc., etc...

Wickabee has major heart problems, because he hasn't fully given his life to Jesus. Gays are full of lust and sin so I have a right to speak the truth in Jesus name. You are full of lust, because you like watching gays sin it makes you happy.

Wickabee
10-11-2012, 06:12 PM
My heart is just fine.

duwal
10-11-2012, 06:15 PM
Wickabee has major heart problems, because he hasn't fully given his life to Jesus. Gays are full of lust and sin so I have a right to speak the truth in Jesus name. You are full of lust, because you like watching gays sin it makes you happy.


No I am full of warmth and compassion because I want to see gay people have the same rights and quality of life as I and others do

Gorillawits
10-11-2012, 06:23 PM
No I am full of warmth and compassion because I want to see gay people have the same rights and quality of life as I and others do

No you are full of coldness because you hate gays and want to see them die in their sins so they go to hell. You don't want gays to repent and go to be with Jesus.

duwal
10-11-2012, 06:27 PM
No you are full of coldness because you hate gays and want to see them die in their sins so they go to hell. You don't want gays to repent and go to be with Jesus.



haaahaa, that makes no sense at all

JustAlex
10-11-2012, 06:44 PM
They reject God as the creator and embrace secular paganism.
Oh goodnes....

This is when I realized what this thread was all about....

Gorillawits
10-12-2012, 06:53 AM
Oh goodnes....

This is when I realized what this thread was all about....

Yes you got mad when you realized the post was about God and not about your father big bang.

mrveggieman
10-12-2012, 09:48 AM
No if the atheist want benefits they can push for "mate" benefits.

Sorry you can not put your "Logic" on to me. I never said thrown out everyone who is not Jewish for Israel. I said throw out all the "trouble makers" I have seen plenty of Palestinians get bombed for trying to live in peace with the Jews.

You seem to think someone willing to obey Jewish law so they can stay in Israel is the same as a terrorist who blows up innocent children.


An atheist, christian, jew, muslim, budhist, gay, straight, black, white, etc person should all have equal rights and responsibilities within the law. Discriminating against any one of the forementioned (which you are in favor of discrimination based on sexual preference) is immoral. Also no one regardless of their religious preference should be forced to adhere to any religious law that does not serve a secular purpose. You are full of it and Im going to call you out there. You favor laws based on religion because you agree with the religion in question but you have a problem with laws in other parts of the world based on religion because you don't agree with the religion. Finally anyone who intentionally harms a child regardless of their motivation should be tourted and executed.

Wickabee
10-12-2012, 10:54 AM
God hates homosexuality, not homosexuals. I think too many people forget that.

mrveggieman
10-12-2012, 10:58 AM
God hates homosexuality, not homosexuals. I think too many people forget that.

CHURCH!! :love0030::love0030::love0030:

habsheaven
10-12-2012, 11:49 AM
God hates homosexuality, not homosexuals. I think too many people forget that.

How can a God "hate" anything? Men hate homosexuality and homosexuals. Too many people seem to forget that also.

mrveggieman
10-12-2012, 11:57 AM
How can a God "hate" anything? Men hate homosexuality and homosexuals. Too many people seem to forget that also.


Per the OT, NT and the Koran God does indeed hate homosexuality as well as any other type of fornication. I am in agreeance with that. However I believe that God hates the sin while loving the sinner.

habsheaven
10-12-2012, 12:05 PM
Per the OT, NT and the Koran God does indeed hate homosexuality as well as any other type of fornication. I am in agreeance with that. However I believe that God hates the sin while loving the sinner.

I guess you missed my point. ALL of those books were written by MEN. Any "GOD" worth worshipping SHOULD be above the emotion of HATE. The more and more I hear about "god", the more and more I think those that created Him didn't put much forethought into their creation.

Wickabee
10-12-2012, 12:11 PM
Habs you're better than that.

habsheaven
10-12-2012, 12:23 PM
Habs you're better than that.

Care to explain?

Wickabee
10-12-2012, 01:02 PM
I thought it was pretty clear I was using the Bible as word of God. Do I believe it? Doesn't matter, this is the conversation we are having. The bible states homosexuality is a sin and God hates sin. No need to start the "word of god vs man" debate again.

JustAlex
10-12-2012, 01:17 PM
The bible states homosexuality is a sin and God hates sin.
I want to pick your brain for a second if I can....

Using the bible's interpretation of homosexuality is really not the way to go....if you're a rational thinker. (IMO)

As rational thinkers, can we accept the fact that the majority of Homosexuals claim that they are born that way?

If so, then one must admit that if there really is a god, he created every being in the form that they are in.

So, why would god purposely create something which has natural urges to commit the "sin" of homosexuality?


Dose this god have a bad sense of humor?

Does this god want to see them suffer for no reason?

Does this god enjoy playing around with his creation?


The logical conclusion is that either this god is what I claim it to be, or if there is a god, this is NOT the real god since god would not do something so malignant, since it is contrary to his "nature".

Wickabee
10-12-2012, 01:25 PM
Well the belief (I can't really say either way) is that homosexuals make the choice and aren't born that way. Whether you agree or not is beside the point, that's the belief. As such, from a Bible standpoint, you're questions can't be answered because they're based on a fallacy.

Again, that's the belief, not necessarily mine.

mrveggieman
10-12-2012, 01:27 PM
I want to pick your brain for a second if I can....

Using the bible's interpretation of homosexuality is really not the way to go....if you're a rational thinker. (IMO)

As rational thinkers, can we accept the fact that the majority of Homosexuals claim that they are born that way?

If so, then one must admit that if there really is a god, he created every being in the form that they are in.

So, why would god purposely create something which has natural urges to commit the "sin" of homosexuality?


Dose this god have a bad sense of humor?

Does this god want to see them suffer for no reason?

Does this god enjoy playing around with his creation?


The logical conclusion is that either this god is what I claim it to be, or if there is a god, this is NOT the real god since god would not do something so malignant, since it is contrary to his "nature".


If I could chime in and play God's advocate for a second we were all born with sinful impulses. It is not that we are tempted with sin that God has a problem but acting on the sin is what God hates. Each of us have our own demons that we are battling. Some have sexual demons, some like to lie, some steal etc. If we were all born perfect then what would be the point?

shrewsbury
10-12-2012, 01:29 PM
the Bible may state it, but not Jesus.

Wickabee
10-12-2012, 01:31 PM
the Bible may state it, but not Jesus.

Did Jesus state anything about abortion? Drug use? Pedophilia?

Do you thinks he's okay with any of that?

Wickabee
10-12-2012, 01:33 PM
I also don't think everything Jesus ever said has made it to us. So if you believe the teachings of Jesus contained in the Bible are absolute truths, why would the rest of the Bible be all lies?

mrveggieman
10-12-2012, 01:35 PM
the Bible may state it, but not Jesus.


Now we are picking and choosing what parts of the bible we go by? Oh no we can't have that. :fighting0056:

habsheaven
10-12-2012, 01:52 PM
I thought it was pretty clear I was using the Bible as word of God. Do I believe it? Doesn't matter, this is the conversation we are having. The bible states homosexuality is a sin and God hates sin. No need to start the "word of god vs man" debate again.

Forget WHO says God hates sin for a second. The very fact that "God" hates anything is absurd. He is God. If He can wipe out the Earthly inhabitants with a flood, surely he can just do away with any sin he has a need to hate.

Wickabee
10-12-2012, 01:56 PM
Forget WHO says God hates sin for a second. The very fact that "God" hates anything is absurd. He is God. If He can wipe out the Earthly inhabitants with a flood, surely he can just do away with any sin he has a need to hate.

Well let's start with why there is sin. Satan challenged God, saying people would rather sin than serve him. If God simply wiped out everything he didn't like, another angel would see the logic that Satan was right because God had proved nothing, just used his powers to make it go away.

As such, he absolutely hates sin, but he's not going to just wipe it out or else it would just be a cycle of. Challenge and destroy. That isn't what God wants.

mrveggieman
10-12-2012, 01:56 PM
Forget WHO says God hates sin for a second. The very fact that "God" hates anything is absurd. He is God. If He can wipe out the Earthly inhabitants with a flood, surely he can just do away with any sin he has a need to hate.

God gives us all free will. We are not his robots and we are free to do as we choose weather it pleases him or not. He as a parent just like you as the father to your daughters are not always pleased with the choices that your kids make.

habsheaven
10-12-2012, 02:03 PM
Well let's start with why there is sin. Satan challenged God, saying people would rather sin than serve him. If God simply wiped out everything he didn't like, another angel would see the logic that Satan was right because God had proved nothing, just used his powers to make it go away.

As such, he absolutely hates sin, but he's not going to just wipe it out or else it would just be a cycle of. Challenge and destroy. That isn't what God wants.

You lost me?? What was the point of the Flood then? Apparently God thought wiping everything out was a good idea back then.

habsheaven
10-12-2012, 02:12 PM
God gives us all free will. We are not his robots and we are free to do as we choose weather it pleases him or not. He as a parent just like you as the father to your daughters are not always pleased with the choices that your kids make.

I'm a mortal man, free to display the worst of emotions whenever I feel like it. I get that. He is a God. The ability to HATE should not be part of any supreme being's makeup. Enlighten me here. Did Jesus ever speak of hating anything?

Wickabee
10-12-2012, 02:25 PM
You lost me?? What was the point of the Flood then? Apparently God thought wiping everything out was a good idea back then.

I'm just telling you what it says. I'm not necessarily agreeing with it and I'm definitely not saying the Bible doesn't contradi t itself.

So with all that in mind, what is your point.

habsheaven
10-12-2012, 02:30 PM
I'm just telling you what it says. I'm not necessarily agreeing with it and I'm definitely not saying the Bible doesn't contradi t itself.

So with all that in mind, what is your point.

My point is: it's absurd for a God to hate.

mrveggieman
10-12-2012, 02:50 PM
My point is: it's absurd for a God to hate.

God dosen't hate anyone but he hates certian actions. Are you suggesting that God should love everything? Rape, murder, bigotry, etc?

Wickabee
10-12-2012, 02:50 PM
My point is: it's absurd for a God to hate.

If you say so. Though I would argue that we were made in his image and that would in life emotions. Since he can feel love, why couldn't he feel hatred?

Hater isn't a bad thing in and of itself. Saying someone, anyone, should live without hate is like saying they should live without fear. Fear exists for a reason, so does hate. It's how you use it that determines good or bad.

JustAlex
10-12-2012, 03:07 PM
My point is: it's absurd for a God to hate.
I also think it's absurd for a god to be jealous, vindictive, or any other petty human emotion.

If we compare god to humans like humans to ants.....should I feel jealous, hatred, or vindictive towards an ant?

WHY?

Furthermore, doesn't this chaotic world where random things happen everyday proof positive that IF there is a god, he really doesn't care about our affairs?

Think about it.....the creator of an endless universe cares about a tiny piece of rock?

It's the equivalent of caring for ONE grain of sand in an endless beach!

habsheaven
10-12-2012, 03:08 PM
God dosen't hate anyone but he hates certian actions. Are you suggesting that God should love everything? Rape, murder, bigotry, etc?

There's a huge spectrum of emotion between hate and love. I am not sure you guys even understand what hatred actually is. If you did. You would see where I am coming from.

I do not, nor have I ever, "hated" anyone or anything. Hatred consumes people. Hatred is based on ignorance. You would think God would have a better grasp of His emotions.

habsheaven
10-12-2012, 03:11 PM
If you say so. Though I would argue that we were made in his image and that would in life emotions. Since he can feel love, why couldn't he feel hatred?

Hater isn't a bad thing in and of itself. Saying someone, anyone, should live without hate is like saying they should live without fear. Fear exists for a reason, so does hate. It's how you use it that determines good or bad.

I agree with "fear". You are going to have to convince me on "hate". Give me one example of "hate" being good.

Wickabee
10-12-2012, 03:28 PM
I'm not sure you understand what hatred is.

Wickabee
10-12-2012, 03:30 PM
I agree with "fear". You are going to have to convince me on "hate". Give me one example of "hate" being good.

Hate generally keeps you away from what you hate. So hating hard drugs is good. Hating pain can be used instead of fear to protect. If you genuinely hate sin, you're probably less likely to sin than someone who doesn't care or even has a strong dislike of sin.

habsheaven
10-12-2012, 03:46 PM
Hate generally keeps you away from what you hate. So hating hard drugs is good. Hating pain can be used instead of fear to protect. If you genuinely hate sin, you're probably less likely to sin than someone who doesn't care or even has a strong dislike of sin.

As I suspected, you do not understand what hatred really is. Pointless to go any further.

Wickabee
10-12-2012, 03:49 PM
Funny, I gave an explanation earlier. I've not seen anything from you.
I know what hatred is. I know its like a gun. Not dangerous until improperly used. You, who thinks a human emotion can be inherently bad, don't understand it because you don't understand we have emotions for a reason. If you can only use hatred for bad, that's your problem. I like to think of myself as smarter and more evolved than that.

habsheaven
10-12-2012, 09:59 PM
Funny, I gave an explanation earlier. I've not seen anything from you.
I know what hatred is. I know its like a gun. Not dangerous until improperly used. You, who thinks a human emotion can be inherently bad, don't understand it because you don't understand we have emotions for a reason. If you can only use hatred for bad, that's your problem. I like to think of myself as smarter and more evolved than that.

Once again, you fail to read what I write. I painted a pretty good picture of what hatred is to veggie on the last page. Just because some emotions like fear have good attributes does not mean they all do. Nice simplification on your part. If you think that makes you smarter than the rest of us than good for you. Your words prove that you are not as smart as you may think. Wanting to avoid things like drugs, pain or sin doesn't mean you "hate" them. Hatred causes one to be consumed by the object they hate.

Wickabee
10-12-2012, 11:25 PM
Once again, you fail to read what I write. I painted a pretty good picture of what hatred is to veggie on the last page. Just because some emotions like fear have good attributes does not mean they all do. Nice simplification on your part. If you think that makes you smarter than the rest of us than good for you. Your words prove that you are not as smart as you may think. Wanting to avoid things like drugs, pain or sin doesn't mean you "hate" them. Hatred causes one to be consumed by the object they hate.
Who didn't didn't read what? I said hate causes avoidance, not the other way around. Before you accuse someone of not reading make sure you've actually read yourself.

Un-flippin-believable

ensbergcollector
10-13-2012, 12:06 AM
If I could chime in and play God's advocate for a second we were all born with sinful impulses. It is not that we are tempted with sin that God has a problem but acting on the sin is what God hates. Each of us have our own demons that we are battling. Some have sexual demons, some like to lie, some steal etc. If we were all born perfect then what would be the point?

+1

just because someone has the urge to sin, does not mean that person has to sin.

habsheaven
10-13-2012, 08:47 AM
Who didn't didn't read what? I said hate causes avoidance, not the other way around. Before you accuse someone of not reading make sure you've actually read yourself.

Un-flippin-believable

I read what you wrote and it's a ridiculous, simplictic notion. COMMON SENSE causes avoidance, not hatred. I have never done "drugs", not because I hate them. I try to avoid pain when I can because pain is an indicator of danger to one's body. It isn't something to fear. And I am sure nobody "hates" sin. People avoid certain sins because of the affects it has on others. Once again, it's COMMON SENSE and MORALITY, not hate.

Wickabee
10-13-2012, 09:16 AM
Whatever habs. You don't understand but you're right because you say so. Oh, and the notion that only ones thing can cause avoidance isn't risk ulous at all. Only common sense can cause avoidance. Not hatred or fear or uncertainty. Nope only common sense...

drtom2005
10-13-2012, 10:26 PM
I read what you wrote and it's a ridiculous, simplictic notion. COMMON SENSE causes avoidance, not hatred. I have never done "drugs", not because I hate them. I try to avoid pain when I can because pain is an indicator of danger to one's body. It isn't something to fear. And I am sure nobody "hates" sin. People avoid certain sins because of the affects it has on others. Once again, it's COMMON SENSE and MORALITY, not hate.

+1 Habs. I agree with you on this one whole-heartly. Hate causes autrocities such as the Holocaust, people running planes into building, lynching, etc.
I have not hated a person myself, only disliked.

Wickabee
10-13-2012, 10:37 PM
So now it's:
A: Everything only has one cause
and
B: Everything only causes one thing


Yeah, you guys are really onto something. Life must be so simple for you.

drtom2005
10-13-2012, 10:50 PM
So now it's:
A: Everything only has one cause
and
B: Everything only causes one thing


Yeah, you guys are really onto something. Life must be so simple for you.
No I do not think that at all. I think you are oversimplifying the meaning of hate. It is a very bad word.

habsheaven
10-13-2012, 10:56 PM
So now it's:
A: Everything only has one cause
and
B: Everything only causes one thing


Yeah, you guys are really onto something. Life must be so simple for you.

We aren't talking about "EVERYTHING". We are talking about hatred. That's a poor attempt to frame the argument into something that you can clearly disagree with.

Wickabee
10-13-2012, 11:50 PM
No I do not think that at all. I think you are oversimplifying the meaning of hate. It is a very bad word.

It's a strong word, not a bad one.

Habs,if not everything is like that, then why is hate like that. Hate is like not bad until acted upon in a destructive manner. Hate can breed competitiveness and success. Love can destroy people, so why can't hate uplift people?

drtom2005
10-14-2012, 10:31 AM
It's a strong word, not a bad one.

Habs,if not everything is like that, then why is hate like that. Hate is like not bad until acted upon in a destructive manner. Hate can breed competitiveness and success. Love can destroy people, so why can't hate uplift people?
How come the legal term is hate crime and not dislike crime? You seem to think the word is meaningless apparently.

Wickabee
10-14-2012, 12:10 PM
Ive given meaning three three times now. The term Hate Crime is one of the stupidest phrases ever.You ddon't actually have to hate anyone to be charged with a hate crime. If anyone thinks the word...

habsheaven
10-14-2012, 03:04 PM
The meaning you have given is wrong. For example, implying hate breeds competitiveness. I assume you are speaking of athlete's "hating" their opponents, or Americans hating Russians during the Cold...

Wickabee
10-14-2012, 05:01 PM
No Habs. You are wrong. Closed-minded and wrong. I'm done with this. You're never going to see the reality that a human emotion can neither be inherently good or inherently bad. Until you understand that, you'll never understand the ridiculousness of this conversation.

So like i sadi, I'm done. Go ahead and get the last word in. Call me a name, tell me I'm crazy if you really need to.

habsheaven
10-14-2012, 10:14 PM
I don't need to call you a name or tell you that you are crazy. You wouldn't believe me anyway if I did. Apparently the concept of hatred is lost on you. So be it.

Wickabee
10-14-2012, 10:42 PM
You've got it backwards. You hold a very glib view of hatred, and the world, for that matter.

Have run with that.

habsheaven
10-14-2012, 10:53 PM
You've got it backwards. You hold a very glib view of hatred, and the world, for that matter.

Have run with that.

I thought you were done? Did you not say you were done and I could have the last word? LOL. It's killing you to know you are wrong isn't it? If you are going to continue with your foolishness, explain your "hatred breeds competitiveness" comment with an example.

Wickabee
10-15-2012, 01:29 AM
Seriously man. You're just getting sad now. I haven't lost anything here. We think differently of hate and it scares you that someone has different ideas than you. I've explained enough to realize that your problems lie far deeper than this issue.

Say whatever you have to in order to feel like a big man and see you later.

habsheaven
10-15-2012, 08:04 AM
A difference in ideas SCARE me? Really? You are starting to sound like all the members here that you are constantly criticizing. I wouldn't be here if different ideas scared me. And now I have deeper PROBLEMS because we disagree on the meaning of a word? If I took you seriously, I would lodge a complaint with the mods over that one. That is the MOST RIDICULOUS thing you have ever said.

You said you were done with the issue, then you felt compelled to respond again, now you are done again. Make up your mind. If you are TRULY done, be done. If not, respond to my request in my last post. If you can't, I guess I know why.

pghin08
10-15-2012, 08:44 AM
Alright, enough guys. This thread's heading to the archives.