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View Full Version : How does PSA/DNA pass this...they all look fake to me



TMILL
10-08-2006, 03:48 AM
FIRST OF ALL, I know this is a lengthy read. I'm sorry.
BUT: I just don't get how this 8X10" COLOR PHOTOGRAPH got passed by PSA/DNA (http://cgi.ebay.com/2005-SAN-ANTONIO-SPURS-TEAM-SIGNED-8X10-PSA-DNA-5-SIGS_W0QQitemZ330035859717QQihZ014QQcategoryZ27270 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)---what I thing are the best authenticators in the business.

I'm not an expert at determining the authenticness (yes I'm allowed to make up my own words) of autographs, but being that I was interested in this item, (http://cgi.ebay.com/2005-SAN-ANTONIO-SPURS-TEAM-SIGNED-8X10-PSA-DNA-5-SIGS_W0QQitemZ330035859717QQihZ014QQcategoryZ27270 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) I decided to do a little "ebay research". All I simply did was look at ebay auctions of actual pack-pulled autographed cards coa'd by Upper Deck/Topps of Parker, Duncan, Manu, and Bowen. This is when it occured to me that these autographs are most likely fake.

Here's Why....
1) I noticed that Tim always has the #21 under his "T" yet this one doesn't have that. Two good examples of Duncan autographs: ONE (http://cgi.ebay.com/04-05-Topps-Luxury-Box-Tim-Duncan-Auto-ed-19-30_W0QQitemZ180036346984QQihZ008QQcategoryZ98019QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem), TWO (http://cgi.ebay.com/99-00-TOPPS-TIM-DUNCAN-SPURS-AUTOGRAPH-AUTO_W0QQitemZ180034803345QQihZ008QQcategoryZ78162 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem).
2) Bowen's "B"s look different compared to card autos. Look especially at the "Bowen" part of his sig and notice that that B has a curl at the top, whereas his cards have a fine end to them, not a curled/bubbled "B". Two good examples of Bowen autos: ONE (http://cgi.ebay.com/1999-SKYBOX-AUTOGRAPHICS-Bruce-Bowen-AUTO-SPURS-CELTICS_W0QQitemZ180019836878QQihZ008QQcategoryZ98 020QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem), TWO (http://cgi.ebay.com/BRUCE-BOWEN-2006-07-REFLECTIONS-AUTO-AUTOGRAPH-3-50_W0QQitemZ260037281551QQihZ016QQcategoryZ44858QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
3) Manu's autograph is completely messed up. On the M of his signature, the big curve or bubble, should be on the ending part of the M. What I'm saying is, pretend this is an M --> /-\. Well i think (comparing to other cards) that the curve/bubble should be here " \ " and not here " / ". Now, for the rest of his signature, i notice that there are two little lines that go to the right at the bottom of the part of his sig that looks like an "X" (i know it somehow spells Ginobili, but whatever, its his sig, and that's how he signs). Also I noticed an extra mark above the right part of the "X" part. So in my mind that's three easy errors on one sig in which all I had to do was look at other real Manu autographs on ebay. Again: ONE (http://cgi.ebay.com/03-04-SkyBox-L-E-LIMITED-Ginobili-Autograph_W0QQitemZ290035880631QQihZ019QQcategoryZ 44861QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem), TWO (http://cgi.ebay.com/2003-04-SP-SIGNATURE-EDITION-MANUEL-GINOBILI-AUTOGRAPH_W0QQitemZ8785369902QQihZ005QQcategoryZ44 861QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem).
4) Now, the Parker signature; What on earth happened to this? On all his sigs, I can clearly read "Parker 9". This one just looks like----well, truthfully I don't know what this looks like; It's just that bad. And AGAIN: ONE (http://cgi.ebay.com/2003-04-UD-HARDCOURT-Tony-Parker-SPURS-Clear-AUTO_W0QQitemZ180020316530QQihZ008QQcategoryZ98020 QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem), TWO (http://cgi.ebay.com/04-SP-AUTHENTIC-TONY-PARKER-AUTO-AUTOGRAPH-SPURS_W0QQitemZ8821293469QQihZ005QQcategoryZ55952Q QrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem).
5) Nester....well, no offense to Nester collectors, but I really didn't care to compare/contrast his sigs to real ones.


Remember these are all just my opinions based on my own "research/ebaying".
What do you guys think?
Are they real- so it's ok that PSA/DNA authenticated them.
Are they fake- PSA/DNA should not have passed them. I obviously believe they are fake. If so, could these be fake PSA/DNA stickers altogether? Yes, I DID check PSA/DNA to certify that PSA/DNA COA # E28090 is real with all 5 sigs, and apparently these sigs are authentic. Just tell me what you think might've happened with this photo and its authentication, because it all seems "fishy" to me.

Oh yeah---YES, I did use overly priced items of these players knowing that they wouldn't attract any great attention to bid on them, so that way any of you collectors that know of cheap prices/steals of these players' autos on ebay right now wouldn't think I am ruining them by over-exposing these cheaper ebay autos. If you don't get what I'm saying then ignore this paragraph, but if you are a collector of one of these players and do, then your welcome.

THANKS FOR THE READ, you deserve a cookie!!! Maybe some milk if you respond back...L:biggrin:L

nbafan15
10-08-2006, 09:03 PM
To me, it appears they are authentic, however they must have been signed in person which is why they look rushed. Obviously PSA must have been able to identify certain characteristics in the signatures to deem them authentic. These were most likely obtained at a game as the players entered the dressing room, or at the hotel as the players boarded the bus. From my experience ip autos are very sloppy, which is why letters are different and numbers are either not included (duncan) or joined together (ginobli)...especially NBA players, god forbid if they waste 3 seconds to sign an auto

teacheric
10-08-2006, 10:34 PM
Give that man some cookies! He doesn't need milk...he's got sizzurp!

MDIZZ
10-08-2006, 10:53 PM
I have an in person bowen auto,and the B looks more like a D with a slite curve in the middle.

nbafan15
10-08-2006, 11:02 PM
Give that man some cookies! He doesn't need milk...he's got sizzurp!

lol to be completely honest i just looked at the pic...never read past the title

TMILL
10-09-2006, 02:18 AM
Thanks for the replies however I didn't buy it anyway...but I guess what nbafan15 said is true....maybe they could spend an extra .5 of a second signing to add the #21 or whatever # to their names.

Just to let you know nbafan15, I was feeling good about myself that someone would actually read a hard-worked on, time consuming essay of mine and appreciate my talented good work.....
AND THEN you say this
"lol to be completely honest i just looked at the pic...never read past the title"...........
wOw thanks man....LOL :new_silly

Reggie_Miller
10-21-2006, 08:50 PM
hey, I read the whole thing! :) I think all the sigs look real...I study autos all the time, and they all look real to me.

sportsguyryan
10-25-2006, 05:24 PM
I'm not an expert at determining the authenticness (yes I'm allowed to make up my own words)

Authenticity? lol


j/k

DeWittFootball20
10-25-2006, 08:50 PM
To me, it appears they are authentic, however they must have been signed in person which is why they look rushed. Obviously PSA must have been able to identify certain characteristics in the signatures to deem them authentic. These were most likely obtained at a game as the players entered the dressing room, or at the hotel as the players boarded the bus. From my experience ip autos are very sloppy, which is why letters are different and numbers are either not included (duncan) or joined together (ginobli)...especially NBA players, god forbid if they waste 3 seconds to sign an auto


Yea I know alot of peoples signatures vary quite a bit from when they sign card to when the just sign somthing someone has them sign. Not saying you're wrong cuz you could be correct. Also I would like to say grading and PSA/DNA is all crap, things vary so much and there is so much inconsistency in their graded/authenticating, I know it drive value up (which is why I and most others use it), but truly if and auto is not pack certified, or I saw the person sign it, I am skeptically.


Just my 2 cents on the subject

DeWittFootball20
10-25-2006, 08:51 PM
And I did read the whole thing and you can send the cookies to me, LOL

autocut
10-26-2006, 04:29 AM
You know PSA/DNA gets a "D" rating from the Better Business Bureau.