This thread is in response to an argument I have with another person on another forum.

He said that because the Yankees have been winning so many games that it basically meant that Derek Jeter was a non factor for the team.

So then I gave him a ton of counter arguments that he couldn't answer so instead he came up with the dumb comment that NOT ONLY IS JETER OVERRATED BUT THAT THERE ARE TONS OF SS THAT ARE BETTER THAN HIM.

I finally got the best of him and shut him up when I posted Jeter's stats and the stats of other SS in the league.

But my question is do you think that Jeter is an overrated player? Now I don't mind people hating on the Yankees so you can disagree with me BUT back it up with stats other than I hate Jeter so that means that he sucks.

I know ARod is the best SS and probably the best player in the league but if you compare Jeter to Nomar and Tejeda there is not that big of a difference in their stats.

Jeter

BA .317 HR 117 RBI 563 Hits 1390 Runs 839

Nomar

BA .328 HR 145 RBI 564 Hits 1033 Runs 565

Miguel

BA .268 HR 129 RBI 498 Hits 791 Runs 476

Do I think Jeter is one of the top SS's in the league, but I have to agree and say, if he wasn't in pinstripes he would get nearly as much respect, no you can't argue with stats but they can inflated playing in a lineup like the yanks have, yeah when you bat second, pitchers would much rather pitch to jeter than the yanks 3,4,and 5th hitters because he doesn't have as much power and can't you more than them, so he will hit for a better avg. than most put him, I think the only true test is to place on a another team with a little weaker lineup hitting behind him and see what he does.

I don't hate jeter, but I do think he is a little overrated, he came into a perfect situation when he came up from the minors, not alot players get that type of luck.

Does he have any gold gloves? I'm curious

From what I've read--so I'm not a primary source--his stats last year were not up to par of what he's done in the past. This was supported by his admittance to playing with an injury (his back?) so that's understandable. But if it's his back--the jury is still out about how good he is, whether he can recover from his numbers last year. Overrated is not what comes to mind. We are in the era of shortstops when you put together Jeter, Garciaparra, Tejada and ARod so it's tempting to say he's overrated because he's a shortstop, a very high-profile one too.

the main reason why I say a little overrated because he came up in a era when SS didn't put up power numbers now more of them, I am talking about his range which is not great but good.

what if you put a nomar on the yanks with him batting second I think he would for sure bat .400, because he swings a better bat, yeah nomar has manny hitting behind him but he doesn't have the huge hitter hitting 3,4,5,6 each one of those guys with there big names can kill you.

I do NOT feel Jeter is over-rated for ONE reason:

He is a difference maker in the play-offs and World series, both offensively and defensively.

Very few athletes make an impact that way; and Jeter's done that.

Jeter, assuming he maintains his level of play, will be in the Hall of Fame, and deservedly so, for all the clutch hits and clutch defensive gems he's made in play-offs.

But, he needs to play at least 13-16 years, enough time to accumulate stats.

His overall #'s were actually better before Soriano and Giambi came along. all this guy does is win. He is a leader and a damn good ball player. If I was starting a team today and had to pick my SS the only other one I would choose over him would be A-Rod.

I don't think he's over-rated... just over-hyped. I've actually heard many times people try and argue Jeter is better than Arod, which there is no way in hell he is.

Originally posted by IggyWH
I don't think he's over-rated... just over-hyped. I've actually heard many times people try and argue Jeter is better than Arod, which there is no way in hell he is.

Your probably right about him being overhyped not overrated.

People that argue Jeter is better than Arod should be shot. I'm a Yankees fan and I would NEVER say anything like that.

I just always hear about how Nomar and Tejada are so much better than Jeter and when you look at their career stats its almost even between the 3. That's not counting in postseason stats where Jeter has exceled and people like Tejada have sucked.

To answer the question about Gold Gloves.

Jeter- none
Tejada-none
Nomar-none
Arod-1

I'm guessing Omar Vizquel won the GG at SS if these guys didn't.

And just to throw in some more stats:

Jeter

167 Stolen Bases
470 Walks

Nomar

63 Steals
232 Walks

Tejada

39 Steals
234 Walks

Jeter is the best shortstop in the game for a variety of reasons. He can carry the team in tough situations (leader), he's a great defensive shortstop and is a good hitter.

Tim

Well, pwaldo,

I say Jeter is better than A. Rod.

Why?

Jeter has shown what he can do in post-season play and World Series.

Until A. Rod gets the chance to do so, he's second to Jeter.

Remember Barry Bonds? Before last year's playoffs and World Series, he has horrific stats for the previous 8 years of play-offs.

But Bonds changed all that last year.

So, until A. Rod gets a chance to show if he can play in post-season, Jeter is the better player.

Remember, A. Rod plays in Texas, where, for the last 2-3 years, they've been eliminated from contention by All Star game, which means there's no pressure packed games. Just go out, play ball, and collect that $25M check yearly.

YOU HAVE TO PROVE YOU CAN PLAY IN POSTSEASON.

Just because you did well in regular season don't mean jack!

Look at Bonds as the perfect example.

Jeter is better than A. Rod, plain and simple. It's about doing the things necessary to help your teams win. And you can look through the archives of baseball games to see that Jeter's done more to help his team than A. Rod.

Going 5-5, with 3 homers and 8 RBIs, and your team loses isn't the same as going 1-3 with 1 RBI and making the plays needed to help the team win.

If A. Rod wanted to win, he'd have stay with the Mariners, much like Griffey Jr, who's now facing the wrath of the baseball gods for deserting Seattle.

Griffey Jr. got his dream of going home to Cincinnati...and in the process, promptly ejected himself from Hall of Fame consideration

podstock I gotta disagree about that.

Yes Jeter does do a lot for the team and always helps them to win. BUT I don't think he is even close to Arod. Arod is by far the best SS and could be the best player in baseball right now. Arod is an all around athlete and does EVERYTHING WELL. I don't think the guy has any flaws. If Arod was in NY instead of Jeter I am sure the Yankees would still be winning World Series.

That's true, with the roster the Yanks have, I don't doubt that they would've won their titles with A. Rod.

Now, the question is: could A. Rod have done just as well in the post-season as Jeter?

There's no law that says b/c you're the best in the regular season, that you will dominate in post-season.

Just look at Bonds. He was batting something like 0.200, with 1-2 homers, and a couple of RBIs, in EIGHT playoff series before he busted out last year.

This is all pure conjecture until A. Rod gets into the play-offs.

Originally posted by IggyWH
I don't think he's over-rated... just over-hyped. I've actually heard many times people try and argue Jeter is better than Arod, which there is no way in hell he is.

maybe that is what I meant not overrated, but over hyped, that is a better word. The reason I say that is that their are SS with better range, jeter is not going to make nearly as many errors as a Guzman or a Viquel, why because he doesn't have the range they do, even back in the days of ozzie guillen with the WS, he made a lot of errors but he made a lot those on balls most SS's wouldn't even get to. Same thing with Guzzie and omar, and when compared to hitting, you have arod, tejada, nomar.... I think nomar is a better hitter. pitchers have to be careful to jeter, yes he has speed but the wrecking crew behind him is very dangerous, what if jeter batted 6th I bet his numbers would look different, he would probably have more rbi's but less walks and a lower avg.

True podstock.

People tend to forget that Jeter is money in the playoffs and that alone makes him worth it. Arod I don't know about but Jeter I am sure of. Remember that play against Oakland where he tagged the runner out at home plate. :eek: :eek: :eek:

I don't think anyone else could have done that.

Here's some more interesting stats. A person on the other forum was saying how bad Jeter is at defense.

Well look at these stats:

Jeter 118 Errors in 1091 games
Nomar 110 Errors in 763 games
Tejada 111 Errors in 773 games

pwaldo...ahhahhhahaha..man, when you take a look at those errors, Jeter is by far the best. There's no argument there.

Why?

b/c Nomar and Tejada have to play 300+ games more and only can make 7-8 errors in order to match Jeter.

Heck, if you've got one bad game (perhaps your girlfriend wasn't in the mood last night, and you couldn't get to a "high class" bar), that's 2-3 errors you can make in one ball game alone.

Originally posted by podstock
pwaldo...ahhahhhahaha..man, when you take a look at those errors, Jeter is by far the best. There's no argument there.

Why?

b/c Nomar and Tejada have to play 300+ games more and only can make 7-8 errors in order to match Jeter.

Heck, if you've got one bad game (perhaps your girlfriend wasn't in the mood last night, and you couldn't get to a "high class" bar), that's 2-3 errors you can make in one ball game alone.

I don't get it either podstock.

People all the time will rip Jeter for his "poor defense" when in fact his defense isn't that bad. If you compare it to Nomar and Tejada he has a few more errors but in a ton more games played. And I see the games all the time where he is making awesome dives and defense plays that amaze me. Does he make some errors? Yes but so does everyone else in baseball.

agree. Not many players are benched for errors.

Man, just look at how many 3rd basemen and short stops make over 30-40 errors a season.

If you're an average MLB player, than you'd better be able to play defense, or you're headed for the minors.

But, Troy Glaus made over 30-35 errors last year for Anaheim, and he's not going to be sent down any time soon.

Agreed. Basically if you are good at offense you will survive in baseball no matter what. That's why the AL has the DH. :rolleyes: Like we need more offense.

BTW I like your new avatar.