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View Full Version : Fake Autos- How much of a problem is it?



cutlassfilm
09-19-2008, 12:26 AM
Obviously not on newer certified cards but more for memorabilia. I talked to a long time sportscard shop owner who said he had heard that something like 75% of autos are fake. I wouldn't buy anything without a reputable COA but I'm intersted in opinions. I've been shopping for Mantle, Williams, Dimaggio etc...

LakersMC
09-19-2008, 03:53 PM
Do a google search for "Operation Bullpen". The FBI did a whole investigation of sports autographs, and concluded 70% of autographs are fake. For sure you need a COA from PSA/DNA, GAI, or James Spence. But even fakes can slip by these companies.

You never know for sure unless you see someone sign right in front of you!

br.ett
09-19-2008, 03:56 PM
Do a google search for "Operation Bullpen". The FBI did a whole investigation of sports autographs, and concluded 70% of autographs are fake. For sure you need a COA from PSA/DNA, GAI, or James Spence. But even fakes can slip by these companies.

You never know for sure unless you see someone sign right in front of you!
Everyone has been bashing James Spence for fakes, what they don't know is PSA/DNA has certified autographs of people not known, without research.

tmoneywon
09-20-2008, 01:40 PM
It's a gamble, some players have others sign some stuff for them. Also as players age their auto changes a lot. Both gotten in person.

I have mentioned this before, many players autos change a lot over the years. When Bobby Orr, Bobby Hull, Ray Bourque, Larry Bird were Teen agers they signed very different, that was half a decade ago for some of them.

Some like Bird SIgned as Larry Bird, L Bird, Larry Joe Bird, and even LJ Bird. I've seen a collection of his autos from his entire life (all of them either mine or a relative that all were gotten in person over the years) and they all change.

Perfect Example I have in my bucket right now. Here's a Ray Bourque as he signs now and how he signed when he was a rookie.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u72/cocacolaman_2007/Hockey/Ray%20Bourque/bourqueautotic.jpg

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u72/cocacolaman_2007/Hockey/Ray%20Bourque/CopyofBourqueBower.jpg

Drago06-
09-20-2008, 06:44 PM
Only way to know is if you get it yourself IP. Me and 3 friends when to the game and all of us got Camron Maybn and on all 4 balls the auto was diffrent lol but hey atleast i know that he signd my ball and if i take it to PSA/DNA they might tell me its fake even tho I saw him sign it with my own 2 eyes. But im not in it for the money and the PSA and stuff like that im in it cuz i like collecting autos. If you like collecting autos get them in person even if he signd it diffrnt from the one they sell at stiner, you know he signd it.

theeclipse2k5
09-20-2008, 10:04 PM
Fakes are a huge problem, i would hate to buy or trade for a card that is a fake, so that is a huge problem.

cutlassfilm
09-20-2008, 10:59 PM
I've seen certified autos from players that are totally different from each other especially on baseballs.

The problem with fakes is it does undermine the whole memorabilia industry. Maybe you've got a real Mantle, Ruth (or Maybin) auto, but if you want to sell it... then the buyer needs to be convinced. I've bought autographed balls and cards on Ebay for my son, and they are players he likes. I do as much due diligence as possible, but I've never bought them to resell them. They're players that he likes. For Instance I bought a minor league ball with Buchholz, Ellsbury, Masterson, Hottovoy, Dustin Brown for $40 before they were called up, there's no COA, but what the heck.

cutlassfilm
09-20-2008, 11:07 PM
I think to that I will not go after the autographed Mantle/Williams/Dimaggio memorabilia I was looking at and instead buy their Graded cards (when I can afford them). I think the vintage graded cards of popular iconic players will hold/increase value better. I'd pay $3,000 for 1952 Topps Mantle long before I'd pay 3k for a Joba Chamberlain /25 auto card.

mackdaddyofjersy
09-23-2008, 11:14 AM
Who or what companys would you put in your top 5 as reputable companys?
There are Bobby Orr puck on the bay that are signed and are of the Oshawa Generals. I wanted to get one but I never heard of the company" Great White North".

What COA would you buy and what ones wouldn't you buy?

cutlassfilm
09-23-2008, 12:47 PM
Who or what companys would you put in your top 5 as reputable companys?
There are Bobby Orr puck on the bay that are signed and are of the Oshawa Generals. I wanted to get one but I never heard of the company" Great White North".

What COA would you buy and what ones wouldn't you buy?

I've seen (and bought) some stuff on ebay that comes with a COA that is remarkably close to the selling companies name. I bought a dozen signed baseballs with a COA from someone I'd never heard of. I threw the COA away. They weren't superstars (but my son liked the players) and I didn't pay alot for them (because there was no reputable COA). It was lower end stuff that if someone was faking it, they sure weren't making a lot of money on it. I also do a lot of due dilligence comparing the autos to certified autos. I know that I've seen a lot of variation in certified autos (especially on baseballs) Pucks should be a little easier to get a consistent auto on. Having said that, Bobby Orr is probably an auto that is worth faking. And those autopens could probably fake it pretty good. I'd say the COA from Great White North is worthless, unless it includes a picture of him signing THAT item, which would be tuff to prove.

If you're buying an item for an investment, then you really need a reputable COA. I just bought a Mickey Mantle auto without a COA (less people bidding on it, so it was pretty cheap). I spent a month or two looking at Mantles autographed stuff (certified) and had some pretty good pictures of the item, so I felt comfortable buying it without a COA. But I will send it in for authentication. The COA will cost me more than the item.

For independent 3rd party authentication, I'd feel comfortable paying top dollar only with these guys (and I bet they've been fooled).

PSA/DNA
JSA
GAI
Beckett

I'm not sure what GAI status is these days, I know they were going thru some troubles last year. There may be a couple of others, but IMO they are leaders and you should feel secure with those.

Here are two side by side certified autos of Jonathan Papelbon which don't really look alike.

http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr145/Cutlassfilm/Personal%20Collection/IMGP0594.jpg

mackdaddyofjersy
09-23-2008, 01:22 PM
Those 2 sigs are way different, amazing

Buyinggameused
09-23-2008, 03:14 PM
I did a sports card article in graduate school, and found a stat that matches the 75-80% mark, as far as fakes go.

I also read about one player that signed cards (for Upper Deck, I think), but he had somebody else sign them (I think it was a family member). :-/