I've enjoyed hockey card collecting for many years. I've also seen a lot of the good, the bad, and the ugly over that time period.

With that in mind, I pose the following questions:

What are your current pet peeves

1) About the hobby itself?

2) About hockey cards, in general?

About the hobby - People who look for drastic deals under eBay price, because they feel they've "earned it", somehow. Someone posted that the other day, and I took them to task over it.

About cards - Ingenuity - It's lacking in a great many products. Why does SPx look almost exactly the same over the past few years? Champs is unique, but not original. And even the unique cards arent done right.

The biggest pet peeve I have, is people who want to sell cards, without providing a price, and just say "Make me an offer".

If you think half of BV is fair, cool. If you think anything less than that is to much of a low ball, and you don't want to make the sale, that's fine too. I dislike dealing with the "Make an offer" types, because very often I've got no clue what they want. If I see something that I think would be a nice pickup for $10, and the seller won't take less than $30..... save both of us some time, and say what you're looking for. I'd never make an offer that's only 1/3 of the asking price.

Also, it does really confuse me when people want to go by BVs instead of eBay pricing. I think the price guides are a great way to look at the value of cards.... and figure out how even a trade is. When trying to sell something though..... it seems there are a lot of people out there who really resent eBay pricing. If you've got a card that books at $50, it does seem like a good deal (at first) if you're willing to sell it for $25 delivered....... but if I can routinely buy it on eBay for $10 + $3 for s/h..... why am I going to pay you double? Because a book says you're selling it at a really great price?


With cards in general, I really hate the exclusive license thing. I never bought any ITG products before (aside from a few singles) but I wasn't buying much wax when ITG had a license anyway. The competition is what's going to breed better quality and better innovation. Upper Deck has gotten lazy over the last few years, because they can be.

About the hobby - No competition for the card buyers dollar. UD controls everything. ITG is out there, but more of a specialty market. There are too many sets and many sets are priced so high as to lock some collectors out.

About cards - Too many parallels and SPs. If I am a player collector I can find my players base card, and maybe the one #'d to 100. But now many sets have multiple levels of serial numbering (#/100, #/50, #/25, #/10, 1/1) for the same card. Also - Far too many jersey and autograph cards. They used to be rare and exciting. Now they are a dime a dozen.

(Added Category) About dealers at shows: I get frustrated with dealers who do not price their cards. When I ask what they want for a certain card they whip out the latest Beckett and refuse to budge from the BV.

I agree 100% with 30ranfordfan. I only ever say "PM with offer" if I dont know what something goes for. New products not out on ebay have no baseline, so I take what i think is fair, and judging demand by what people are offering is the only way to know whats fair.

Nashrules is right. I should have included a couple of exemptions in my "you'd better price it first" rant. If it's a brand new product, asking for offers is okay. Same thing if something is ultra rare. If you've got a 1/1 card.... I guess "PM me an offer" isn't so bad either.

Drew - You're right about dealers at a show. Now, I have zero issue with a guy who wants to charge full BV for his cards. They're his cards, that's his prerogative. If he doesn't want to wiggle on the price, that's also fine. I'd just like them to have a note somewhere saying that. Would an 8 x 10 sign, saying "Sell for BV" be so hard to put up?

If I'm at a show, unless there is something a REALLY want (something that I'd be willing to pay full BV for) on a table.... if there's no prices, I keep on walking.

The Hobby - The lack of "true" collectors anymore. I am from an era where people collected players of teams because they truly loved their play on the ice/field.

Nowadays EVERYONE has a Crosby or AO PC because they are so great, yet every time they post a card they MUST mention the Beckett Value of said card. It seems so many people are all about dollars and cents these days. It makes me especially dismayed to see a lot of younger people, in their teens, and early twenties, just entering this hobby with the same sort of ideology, it's all about monetary value not sentimental value.

I'll be honest, if I, or a lot of people, consolidated all money spent on this hobby from various PC's and focused it on a player like Brodeur or Malkin, I guarantee they could have one of the finest player PC's of those dudes on the planet. Unfortunately most of us do not care for those guys and prefer instead to "spread the wealth" and have twenty simultaneous player PC's of guys and teams they have a passion for. (For me it is teams like the LA Kings, NY Mets, players like Rob Blake, David Wright, etc, etc, etc).

It also seems you must have a player PC of one of the top guys for people to recognize your accomplishments. I have looked at the Supercollector pages here. One of the one's that impressed me beyond belief is Kevin Dineen. Now there is a guy who has passion for a player no one hears about yet he tracked all that stuff down. Here is what makes it all the more impressive. Crosby and AO cards hit EBay every minute, because when someone pulls ones, they know they have "value". A guy like Dineen won't even get listed because his cards are, in the eyes of the money-grubbers, essentially worthless. In that sense it is TWENTY times EASIER to collect AO and Crosby then a common guy or semistar because you'll get cracks at their stuff left and right.

I guess my point is, I hate seeing all these people in it for the money and only caring about the money and no one looking for the true value of it all: FUN!


The Cards - I am with Nashrules and ranfordfan, I HATE the monopoly and the lack of innovation from UD. They are far too lazy and keep pumping out the same stuff different day. I am not even fazed by anything I see anymore. I think the only cards that have even grabbed my interest the past few years are either a really beautiful swatch on Cup-type card or a rare older SP from a lightly broken product, say like Power Play Specialty Patches, maybe a player whose jersey number is like 5 or less and a someone gets a high end card numbered to such of them, or some SP autos from some old Fleer product, stuff like that. All this new stuff is a dime a dozen, boring, yawn, wake me when it's summer..................

about the hobby - People who don't answer PMs. It takes a VERY short amount of time to type a pm and send it.

about cards in general - for sure that ITG doesn't get a license. I prefer their cards over UD any day.

Hobby wise my 2 biggest pet peeves are:
1-Extreme Hoarders- Do you really need all 99 copies of said card. All I want is one.....for my PC. Now I really do respect the hoarders that will help some one out and give up a card so they can finish a set or part of a PC
2-the whole ebay prices vs store prices vs show prices vs book prices- They are a skewed based on the seller and buyer. Ebay also is really dependent on the shipping prices. Auctions are also skewed based on who is seeing the item over that timeline(I think we have all missed out on a card that we would have paid more for if seen). Supply and demand is key. How bad do I want the card.

Pet peeve for hockey cards is too many parallels that are next to impossible to tell the difference of.

The Hobby - The lack of "true" collectors anymore. I am from an era where people collected players of teams because they truly loved their play on the ice/field.

Nowadays EVERYONE has a Crosby or AO PC because they are so great, yet every time they post a card they MUST mention the Beckett Value of said card. It seems so many people are all about dollars and cents these days. It makes me especially dismayed to see a lot of younger people, in their teens, and early twenties, just entering this hobby with the same sort of ideology, it's all about monetary value not sentimental value.

I'll be honest, if I, or a lot of people, consolidated all money spent on this hobby from various PC's and focused it on a player like Brodeur or Malkin, I guarantee they could have one of the finest player PC's of those dudes on the planet. Unfortunately most of us do not care for those guys and prefer instead to "spread the wealth" and have twenty simultaneous player PC's of guys and teams they have a passion for. (For me it is teams like the LA Kings, NY Mets, players like Rob Blake, David Wright, etc, etc, etc).

It also seems you must have a player PC of one of the top guys for people to recognize your accomplishments. I have looked at the Supercollector pages here. One of the one's that impressed me beyond belief is Kevin Dineen. Now there is a guy who has passion for a player no one hears about yet he tracked all that stuff down. Here is what makes it all the more impressive. Crosby and AO cards hit EBay every minute, because when someone pulls ones, they know they have "value". A guy like Dineen won't even get listed because his cards are, in the eyes of the money-grubbers, essentially worthless. In that sense it is TWENTY times EASIER to collect AO and Crosby then a common guy or semistar because you'll get cracks at their stuff left and right.

I guess my point is, I hate seeing all these people in it for the money and only caring about the money and no one looking for the true value of it all: FUN!


The Cards - I am with Nashrules and ranfordfan, I HATE the monopoly and the lack of innovation from UD. They are far too lazy and keep pumping out the same stuff different day. I am not even fazed by anything I see anymore. I think the only cards that have even grabbed my interest the past few years are either a really beautiful swatch on Cup-type card or a rare older SP from a lightly broken product, say like Power Play Specialty Patches, maybe a player whose jersey number is like 5 or less and a someone gets a high end card numbered to such of them, or some SP autos from some old Fleer product, stuff like that. All this new stuff is a dime a dozen, boring, yawn, wake me when it's summer..................
I think more poeple would do it for fun if they were still..25 cent a pk, what 9 year old can afford to collect cards that that are 5$ a pack.for 5 cards
...I make 700$ dollars a week and I still have to do it on a budget...how many kids do you see collecting ,

thats why poeple go to cash in .how many kids do you see at trade shows.just a thought...

You have to put all of that in perspective. If you're paying more than $4 for shipping, you're getting ripped off (unless we're talking about insurance, overnight delivery, that type of stuff).

When eBay price + $4 is still less than half of what the book prices say.... and dealers at stores or shows want to charge full book value, where are you going to buy it?

You're bang on with your assesment though. Supply and demand is everything. eBay (the internet in general) gets the supply to the consumer much easier than we used to be able to get. This has driven prices down big time. There are a ton of people out there though, still, that think becuase a card is limited to 100 copies, it should be worth a lot. Unless it's a star player, they're mistaken.


2-the whole ebay prices vs store prices vs show prices vs book prices- They are a skewed based on the seller and buyer. Ebay also is really dependent on the shipping prices. Auctions are also skewed based on who is seeing the item over that timeline(I think we have all missed out on a card that we would have paid more for if seen). Supply and demand is key. How bad do I want the card.

Pet peeve for hockey cards is too many parallels that are next to impossible to tell the difference of.

I can't argue with you on that one. When ppl. say make an offer I ignore them.


The biggest pet peeve I have, is people who want to sell cards, without providing a price, and just say "Make me an offer".

If you think half of BV is fair, cool. If you think anything less than that is to much of a low ball, and you don't want to make the sale, that's fine too. I dislike dealing with the "Make an offer" types, because very often I've got no clue what they want. If I see something that I think would be a nice pickup for $10, and the seller won't take less than $30..... save both of us some time, and say what you're looking for. I'd never make an offer that's only 1/3 of the asking price.

Also, it does really confuse me when people want to go by BVs instead of eBay pricing. I think the price guides are a great way to look at the value of cards.... and figure out how even a trade is. When trying to sell something though..... it seems there are a lot of people out there who really resent eBay pricing. If you've got a card that books at $50, it does seem like a good deal (at first) if you're willing to sell it for $25 delivered....... but if I can routinely buy it on eBay for $10 + $3 for s/h..... why am I going to pay you double? Because a book says you're selling it at a really great price?


With cards in general, I really hate the exclusive license thing. I never bought any ITG products before (aside from a few singles) but I wasn't buying much wax when ITG had a license anyway. The competition is what's going to breed better quality and better innovation. Upper Deck has gotten lazy over the last few years, because they can be.

Prime B,
I totally disagree with you on that front. I do not have a A.O. or Crosby PC. You cannot even find trades of me trading for them besides base cards or possibly cheap rookies. I totally avoid them like the plaque. So it is not everyone.

My biggest pet peeve is traders with two faces and a list of examples:

1) I seen a member complain about a ethic issue on these boards. Of course it funny as they do not know this. I talked to a old friend up in the Northeast of the U.S. and he told me several years ago he had a bad trade with a member. That member didn't live up to the ethics to make it right. Of course the owner of the site that the trade was made did so Kudo's to them on that front. Of course to see them preach ethics I thought was a slap in the face to the person he was busting on. We all make mistakes and I doubt any of us will claim to being perfect.


2) A person that will lie to you about what they collect. Going back to what Prime B said I love to trade hard to find cards to people for their PC. Of course nothing ticks me off more when someone tells me it for their PC and no sooner than they have the card it up for trade or on the bay. I have no problem if they do this but when they tell me it for their PC I will pretty much never trade with them again. I only keep High End redwings for my pc and I will tell anyone that. If it not high end it more than likely will not be in my pc. Only have about 13 cards in my PC. If you ask me if it for my pc I will tell you no reason to hide. As to me why lie as it usually only going to hurt ya down the road if they find out different.

3) Make a trade with someone and they want a multiplier for a game used. That is cool with me as I have no problem doing this. Of course if we do this then please have the courteous y to return the favor. I always ask for a multiplier when doing new trades if book value is straight up. Why, as I know most folks would state that to me and we have no track record. It might be me ask for a few base cards or inserts or possibly more if it a unique item.

I think we all have pet peeves and each one is no more important than the other. The main thing is to be happy with the person your trading. If your happy that the key. Make great friends with those that you enjoy trading with and do the utmost to keep those relationship going. As for those that irk ya or bug ya just say No Thanks. Different strokes for different folks so don't let a few bumps in the hobby derail all the fun you can have.

DOn