Did anyone ever collect Mo Vaugh, Belle, Mussina before they left there teams?

I noticed many years ago most the players that had good followings spent almost their entire careers with the same team. Did anyone ever like Mike Piazza, Greg Maddux, Albert Belle, Mo Vaughn, Mike Mussina, Manny Ramirez, Gary Sheffeild, Juan Gonzalez, Cecil feilder, Kenny lofton, Matt Williams, Roger Clemens, Mark McGwire and Alex Rodriguez before they moved to other teams?

I remember n the 90's Griffey Jr was by far the most popular player in all of baseball for collectors. I know his cards got hurt big time when he hid in Cincinnati to get less media attention.


I know Jim Thome was never liked before he left for Philly, even after Belle, Ramirez Lofton left. Bernie Williams played his whole career with the Yankees and almost no one wants him. Maddux was always hyped by beckett and his cards were over booked. Chipper Jones use to have an average following, which has shrunk.


Barry Larkin only has a tiny following even though he played his entire career with the Reds.


For being in the Boston Area Nomar GarciaParra cards only had an average following before he left Boston (maybe cause he was one of the ugliest men in all of baseball right there with Mike Redmond, Dante Bichette, Ivan Rodriguez Johny Damon).

Don Mattingly, Tony Gwynn and Cal Ripken use to have a decent followings as they spent their entire career with their teams. They all seemed to have lost followers since the China one way trade deal put so many collectors out of work.

Ryne Sandberg and Ozzie Smith use to have great followings and they played the majority with the same team, even though they losing collectors fast.

I know Will Clark, Rickey Henderson and Jose Canseco have small followings for how many teams they bounced around to.


Last why did only Dave Ortiz rookies get a boost and not Manny Ramirez from the Two Championships they got in Boston? They both started with other teams and Ramirez was just as valuable as Ortiz in their Steroid Fueled Championship runs. Maybe because Ortiz has a nickname "big Papi" which came from his drug abuse with Heroin?

You have to be a die hard to collect these players.before I got on SCF people mainly collect newer players with auto and jersey cards in hopes of turning it around for aprofit not really collect.But on here i do see more folks collect certain players because they are true fans not investors.Just my opinion

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Originally Posted by Gorillawits

Last why did only Dave Ortiz rookies get a boost and not Manny Ramirez from the Two Championships they got in Boston? They both started with other teams and Ramirez was just as valuable as Ortiz in their Steroid Fueled Championship runs. Maybe because Ortiz has a nickname "big Papi" which came from his drug abuse with Heroin?

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I would say the reason behind this would have been Manny's ego. There were so many times out in the field that he seemed to not even try to catch a ball that he came across like he was beneath such a task. My wife collected Ortiz & she still enjoys watching him play, but she couldn't stand Manny!

You make several statements that might be seen as inflammatory. I thought I'd lay out my thoughts on each:

-I thought Griffey went to Cincinnati for the chance to play where his dad had played when he was growing up? I've never known him to have a problem with publicity or the media, or to hide from media attention.
-I followed the Indians for the three-plus years Justice played for Cleveland and Thome was loved by Indians fans. Ramirez got most of the attention, but it definitely isn't fair to say he was never liked.
-Bernie does have a small hobby following remaining but he'll always be overshadowed by Jeter and the Yankees superstars of his era.
-I don't know how you could say Maddux was over-hyped - he retired as the best pitcher in baseball in the last fifty-plus years.
-Chipper Jones is an Atlanta icon and is the most loved Brave since Hank Aaron.
-Granted Barry Larkin does have a tiny following based on what eh accomplished in his career, but there are a handful of seriously devoted supercollectors out there.
-I chuckled at your statement about Nomar and I remembered that schnoz he had. Classic.
-I have no idea what the China one way trade deal is??? but of Mattingly, Gwynn or Ripken I think Ripken will always have the strongest fan following.
-Ryno and The Wizard still have supercollectors out there, but you're right, they are a lot less than ten years ago.
-I know several Rickey Henderson supercollectors, but Jose Canseco collectors are practically hiding with paper bags over their heads now. Strangely, Will Clark seems to have a following that is much bigger than his solid-but-unspectacular career might indicate. There's always a demand for cards of the Thrill.
-Likely the biggest reason Ortiz' rookies went up after 2007 was that they were produced in very limited quantities in 1997 Fleer and Ultra (both as David Arias). These cards were overlooked for years as Ortiz slowly rose through the Twins system and struggled to play adequate first base. When he arrived in Boston and developed into a slugger, his cards took off and collectors rediscovered those rookies. For Manny, however, his rookies are in the 1992 sets, all of which were over-produced to the point of being in such high supply that demand could never foreseeably catch up.
-If you want to refer to the Red Sox victories in 2004 and 2007 as steroid-fueled that's fine, but we'd be hard pressed to find a team full of clean players who never took any unfair advantage to win a championship. As for associating David Ortiz with heroin, this is the first reference I've heard, and I think the vast majority of people attribute the name Big Papi to Ortiz due to his size and power, not anything in his personal life.

As a collector of a player who peaked in the early 1990s I like this thread. I know even though David Justice hasn't been in MLB for a decade now, there is still a remarkable amount of collector demand out there - I base that on the selling price of his cards and the bidding wars I routinely get into with other collectors on rare cards. I've collected David Justice since 1990 and even though I'm winding down I still find the rush of adding a new card of his to my huge collection much more exciting than pulling some Orange Quadfractor GU Auto /10 of some sixteen year old kid from Kansas. Nothing against prospecting, that's just my personal preference and that's the best part of the hobby - everyone can collect whatever they want and value it accordingly.

I collected Matt Williams for a good 15 years before just getting bored with it. Every year, especially after he retired, I just got sick of companies contuining to make so many cards of him. I have well over 900 different, but have litte interest in returning to it. Had nothing to do with which team he played for. Between him and Dave Winfield, I just decided to stick with Winfield who I've collected for some 25 years. It came down to $$$. Every dollar I spent on Matt Williams was one less dollar to sped on my other collections. And since I couldn't find any other non-high end Matt Williams collectors to trade with, it got dull.

But I kind of have to agree with EtherealSOC here. It just sounds like you don't like any of those players, so you're wondering how anyone else could.

Greg Maddux 'over-booked'? not that I noticed...

This guy is one of the top 15 pitchers EVER in baseball. Maybe top 10. 300+ career wins. He's the only pitcher besides Sandy Koufax to win 4 straight ERA titles. And the ONLY pitcher to win the Cy Young award 4 times in a row.

His cards deserved to be booked with the elite in baseball, and still do

To answer a few statements made to me.

If you ever see people dishing out full book value for Greg Maddux inserts cards let me know. Jim Thome cards even rare ones sell for almost nothing, has nothing to do if I like the guy or not. Dave Ortiz was called big papi because his fellow players knew he was a big "junkie" papi seeds are used to make heroin.

I can only assume that people are basing their facts here on worship of the player and not actual card sales and traders out there that want their items.

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Originally Posted by Gorillawits

To answer a few statements made to me.

If you ever see people dishing out full book value for Greg Maddux inserts cards let me know. Jim Thome cards even rare ones sell for almost nothing, has nothing to do if I like the guy or not. Dave Ortiz was called big papi because his fellow players knew he was a big "junkie" papi seeds are used to make heroin.

I can only assume that people are basing their facts here on worship of the player and not actual card sales and traders out there that want their items.

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Practically all cards sell for well below book, unless we're talking about hot prospects or other cards with a sudden, high demand. Beckett pricing hasn't been accurate since the early 90s, if ever, so to equate low card sales with a decrease in a player's following is to ignore several other factors. It's not just Greg Maddux or Jim Thome, it's across the board - I have never paid full book for a non-PC card. If you're judging a player's following based solely on how his cards are selling at your local card store, you're not getting the full picture.

As for your statement about David Ortiz, this is the first time I've ever heard him associated with heroin. Several sources state that when Ortiz arrived in Boston he called everyone he didn't know 'Papi'. So natuarally, everyone started calling him 'The Big Papi' which was shortened to Big Papi. This seems much more plausible since the Spanish word "Papi" means "Daddy", and "amapola" is Spanish for "poppy". I cannot find a single source that mentions any link between his nickname and heroin, but I would be intrigued if you could provide one.

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Originally Posted by EtherealSOC

Practically all cards sell for well below book, unless we're talking about hot prospects or other cards with a sudden, high demand. Beckett pricing hasn't been accurate since the early 90s, if ever, so to equate low card sales with a decrease in a player's following is to ignore several other factors. It's not just Greg Maddux or Jim Thome, it's across the board - I have never paid full book for a non-PC card. If you're judging a player's following based solely on how his cards are selling at your local card store, you're not getting the full picture.

As for your statement about David Ortiz, this is the first time I've ever heard him associated with heroin. Several sources state that when Ortiz arrived in Boston he called everyone he didn't know 'Papi'. So natuarally, everyone started calling him 'The Big Papi' which was shortened to Big Papi. This seems much more plausible since the Spanish word "Papi" means "Daddy", and "amapola" is Spanish for "poppy". I cannot find a single source that mentions any link between his nickname and heroin, but I would be intrigued if you could provide one.

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Beckett has been off on the prices ever since the 90's when they stopped researching with major card shops who's cards were selling around the country. They eventually stopped asking card shops and just priced the cards based on "what they felt like".


All over the net almost no one wants Maddux or Jim Thome. Many of there rare cards sell for practically nothing at times and almost no one values them in trade. I had 1995 UD two electric Diamond Gold Greg Maddux cards and no one wanted to pay anything for them and no one wanted them in trade so I finaly ripped the worthless peices of junk. I had other Maddux cards in the past and almost all were worthless even though they were rare.

Ortiz is just another steroid using junkie drug addict. He refused to fully juice up for the Twins, then when he went to Boston and Manny Ramirez showed him how to properly Juice up. If you want photos of him taking the heroine, you will have to go ask big pappi if you can take the pictures while he is injecting himself.

Here is a photo I found showing the "drugs cuts" going slanted on Ortiz's eyes. You can see his eyes are bloodshot from the drug abuse. After a tad of research I see Crack-Cocaine can come from the poppy seeds as well, so he could have been taking that instead of Heroine.

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images...jpg?1304334776

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Originally Posted by Gorillawits

Beckett has been off on the prices ever since the 90's when they stopped researching with major card shops who's cards were selling around the country. They eventually stopped asking card shops and just priced the cards based on "what they felt like".


All over the net almost no one wants Maddux or Jim Thome. Many of there rare cards sell for practically nothing at times and almost no one values them in trade. I had 1995 UD two electric Diamond Gold Greg Maddux cards and no one wanted to pay anything for them and no one wanted them in trade so I finaly ripped the worthless peices of junk. I had other Maddux cards in the past and almost all were worthless even though they were rare.

Ortiz is just another steroid using junkie drug addict. He refused to fully juice up for the Twins, then when he went to Boston and Manny Ramirez showed him how to properly Juice up. If you want photos of him taking the heroine, you will have to go ask big pappi if you can take the pictures while he is injecting himself.

Here is a photo I found showing the "drugs cuts" going slanted on Ortiz's eyes. You can see his eyes are bloodshot from the drug abuse. After a tad of research I see Crack-Cocaine can come from the poppy seeds as well, so he could have been taking that instead of Heroine.

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images...jpg?1304334776

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If you feel that book values have been off since the 90's, then why were you inquiring to find people to pay full book value? They have been & always will be just a guide for people to use & nothing more than that. The owners of the cards are the only ones that have final say over what price they sell their cards for, but in turn, the buyers are the only ones that decide whether or not to pay that amount. Trading is no different, both sides have to agree or it doesn't get done.

It's ironic that Maddux cards were brought up, as someone just the other week asked me if I had any for a trade I was making. Unfortunately I had traded all of them away already, but we still got our deal done. So there are people out there looking for Maddux still. It always saddens me to hear about cards being destroyed as they could've been used to make someone happy. I just can't understand why they would be considered worthless, especially when you either paid money or traded something for them.

As far as Ortiz being a drug addict, I don't know. I've never met the man personally & probably never will. I would much rather see pictures of him hitting baseballs rather than injecting himself with needles though, as I'm not a fan of needles as my doctor will agree. I'm not sure what the picture was supposed to be showing as I have no idea what "drug cuts" are, but as far as the bloodshot eyes are concerned my eyes look like that every day when I get home from work. Now, I've never checked the MSDS sheets on the glue that my company uses to bind books together, but I would hope that since around 80% are education related, I would hope that it doesn't contain crack-cocaine or heroine.