sportscard collecting/selling/trading/buying is a fricken sham.

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Originally Posted by pwaldo

It is a hobby. You control it and can buy what you want and how much. Nobody holds a gun to you head forcing you to do something. So if you get "scammed" collecting then it would be your fault and your fault alone.

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But you don't understand. Even if I voluntarily spend my money on a product it is up to the other hobbyists, the guy who sold me the product, the guy who made the product, the government and even God himself to guarantee that it will always be worth as much as I paid for it and that if I ever do sell it I should be be able to make at least my money back but preferably a bit more. The only reason I do this is to make money and without those guarantees in place how am I supposed to come out ahead on the whole thing. No one buys anything that loses value, it would be stupid to do that. Only hoarders do that. If you are not buying cards to resell for a profit then you are simply hoarding them and you are as useless as those cards are. I don't care what you say its all one big scam designed to keep me from making any money at all. Its not fair, I quit.


Sarcasm off.

Maybe you can pick up basket weaving, it's low maintenance and rewarding (by rewarding I mean having a feeling of accomplishment and not $$$).

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Originally Posted by vike-king

this whole sportscard industry is a sham. i have been "collecting" for more than 20 years and i have come to the conclusion that this entire industry is a money grabbing over priced sucker bet. you pay anywhere between $5 & $450 a pack for this crap and very rarely do you get anywhere near your moneys worth. yeah blah blah blah dont expect to make money on this stuff, blah blah blah.......i just sold my entire collection for $3500. this collection was book valued at over $30,000. the price i ended up getting was from the 11th offer i received for it. 1 card in the collection book valued at more than $1400. what does that tell ya? the whole thing is a fricken sham. i am totally done wasting my hard earned money on a bunch of worthless cardboard. yeah yeah its a hobby meant to be for fun of collecting...blah blah blah....you're all suckers just like i was, but no more! spend thousands just to get hundreds in return is a joke. stop buying into this overpriced under valued crap "hobby". its laughable. really.

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that beckett is crap lol

heres my point..............i get it, its a hobby blah blah blah. i wasnt out to "make money". dont spend what you cant afford yadda yadda yadda, whats the point of collecting if the stuff you collect has no value? i have never seen anyone pay $100,000 for a piece of artwork just to show it off. they dont pay that type of premium if the piece theyre purchasing never has any future return on the investment. yes this is a "hobby" but when the lure of value is present this stops being "just a hobby", now it becomes an investment. sure investments have their risks but remember when the card companies require a premium price for a "chance" to make good on your investment then it turns into something else. it turns into gambling. and no one gambles as a hobby. i understand what collecting is. people collect buttons, posters,matchbooks, tiddly winks, unicorns, rubber bands, but you dont see a pack of buttons that costs $150. and when you collect buttons and the pack of buttons you bought doesnt have $150 worth of buttons in it you stop collecting buttons. youre right it doesnt say on the packs that you will make money but the idea of the hobby certainly does or publications such as beckett, tuff stuff, and sportscard monthly wouldnt exist. there wouldnt be price "guides" to entice you to piss away hundreds of dollars chasing some super rare piece of "history". dont try to tell me that its worth paying $200 a pack or $700 for a certain single just to say "hey look what i got". is it worth a fortune to show off? no its not. its not worth it. and yes im am done with the "hobby". i am done with the commercial brain wash that topps, panini, upper deck, and the others have gotten away with for soo long. i just love the intellectuals that think they have life by the short hairs. the fact is is that youre all suckers. you'll all find out someday that all that money and time you spent on your "hobby" could have been spent on something more tangible. something more valuable than the worthless pieces of cardboard you have stuffed into a box somewhere.Just to clarify, the entire card collecting industry is based with the PREMISE OF VALUE! when you trade, buy, sell, list on ebay, etc...the first question is always " what is the value"? if this was not the premise then trading a $20 card for a $700 card wouldnt be a problem. if you collect nick swisher and i collect bryce harper then why wont you trade me an autographed bryce harper for a nick swisher rookie card? we both get the guy we collect right? neither card has any value as far as you guys are concerned right? we dont make this trade because THERES VALUE INVOLVED! and the major difference in value makes this trade preposterous. but from what i constantly read and hear from so called "collectors" in this hobby when i piss and moan about it is that "you should collect the players you like, not for the implied value". so dont tell me that i shouldnt collect with value and profit in mind because the entire industrys premise is all about exactly that. its only until someone tells you how stupid you are that you lash out with intellectual comments telling me how stupid i am while trying to sound smart while doing so.

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Originally Posted by vike-king

heres my point..............i get it, its a hobby blah blah blah. i wasnt out to "make money". dont spend what you cant afford yadda yadda yadda, whats the point of collecting if the stuff you collect has no value? i have never seen anyone pay $100,000 for a piece of artwork just to show it off. they dont pay that type of premium if the piece theyre purchasing never has any future return on the investment. yes this is a "hobby" but when the lure of value is present this stops being "just a hobby", now it becomes an investment. sure investments have their risks but remember when the card companies require a premium price for a "chance" to make good on your investment then it turns into something else. it turns into gambling. and no one gambles as a hobby. i understand what collecting is. people collect buttons, posters,matchbooks, tiddly winks, unicorns, rubber bands, but you dont see a pack of buttons that costs $150. and when you collect buttons and the pack of buttons you bought doesnt have $150 worth of buttons in it you stop collecting buttons. youre right it doesnt say on the packs that you will make money but the idea of the hobby certainly does or publications such as beckett, tuff stuff, and sportscard monthly wouldnt exist. there wouldnt be price "guides" to entice you to piss away hundreds of dollars chasing some super rare piece of "history". dont try to tell me that its worth paying $200 a pack or $700 for a certain single just to say "hey look what i got". is it worth a fortune to show off? no its not. its not worth it. and yes im am done with the "hobby". i am done with the commercial brain wash that topps, panini, upper deck, and the others have gotten away with for soo long. i just love the intellectuals that think they have life by the short hairs. the fact is is that youre all suckers. you'll all find out someday that all that money and time you spent on your "hobby" could have been spent on something more tangible. something more valuable than the worthless pieces of cardboard you have stuffed into a box somewhere.Just to clarify, the entire card collecting industry is based with the PREMISE OF VALUE! when you trade, buy, sell, list on ebay, etc...the first question is always " what is the value"? if this was not the premise then trading a $20 card for a $700 card wouldnt be a problem. if you collect nick swisher and i collect bryce harper then why wont you trade me an autographed bryce harper for a nick swisher rookie card? we both get the guy we collect right? neither card has any value as far as you guys are concerned right? we dont make this trade because THERES VALUE INVOLVED! and the major difference in value makes this trade preposterous. but from what i constantly read and hear from so called "collectors" in this hobby when i piss and moan about it is that "you should collect the players you like, not for the implied value". so dont tell me that i shouldnt collect with value and profit in mind because the entire industrys premise is all about exactly that. its only until someone tells you how stupid you are that you lash out with intellectual comments telling me how stupid i am while trying to sound smart while doing so.

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Well, I can honestly say that I never called you stupid, or a moron, or anything of the sort. I just asked a simple question. As to me, this will always be just a hobby. For decades now I could never understand the people in this hobby that seem only interested in making money off of it, as I have never sold any cards.

Does my collection have some monetary value to it? I believe so, but it doesn't matter to me as the sentimental value far outweighs any money that I could ever get out of it. My collection started out as a gift from my family & I have every intention of it becoming that again, when I've left this world. What my children or grandchildren do with it after that is not my concern. I have shared my collection with them & will continue to do so.

Have I traded autographed cards for game used? Yes. I've even traded autographed cards for base cards. I've also given away autographed cards & high dollar rookies. A very good friend of mine got a 1955 Harmon Killebrew in absolutely beautiful condition as a present from me when I moved away years ago. I spoke with him just last Summer for the first time in almost 20 years, & he still has the card along with his PC as well. It's things like that which make this hobby so great in my life. If I'm a "sucker" for that, then so be it.

As far as spending my money on more tangible items, it's not really an issue. My family always comes first when it comes to the money I earn. What ever is left after everything is bought & my bills are paid is what I get to play with. Sometimes it's used on cards, other times it's used to take them out to dinner & a movie. Personally, I love to cook & I'm not always a fan of the movie that my wife & kids want to go see, but I don't ever consider taking them out as a waste of money either. It's all in the way you approach things.

I don't believe you are stupid and I respect your opinion and believe in a lot of what you said. On the other hand you said "you'll all find out someday that all that money and time you spent on your "hobby" could have been spent on something more tangible." You can pay $5,000 to $10,000 for a cruise. When the cruise ends what do you have that's tangible? Probably a bunch of pictures. But what's more important is you have your memories of the trip and that's not tangible. You could have also gone on that $5,000 to $10,000 cruise and got food poisoning. What tangible things do you have from that trip? Probably a few stained shirts from your time in the bathroom.

You can go fishing for 3-4 hours and catch absolutely nothing, not even a bite. You can look at it a couple of ways. First your way, that the trip cost you gas money and you wasted three or four hours. Or my way of thinking that it was a nice 3-4 hours of peace, relaxation and serenity or if I went with a fishing partner I would have had peace, relaxation and serenity plus some good talk. I may not have caught a fish which is tangible but I had a good time which is much more important. I know a few rich people who's lives are miserable and I know some people who are at the poorer end of the spectrum who's lives appear great. My point is you can't put a price tag on happiness. Those poorer people I know do not have the tangible things but I believe they are actually richer than the people who are well off. If someone enjoys collecting cards so be it, as long as they are happy that's all that counts.

As for you getting $3,500 for cards valued at over $30,000, you still made out better than people who invested in Enron. :winking0071:

...Rick


EDIT: I would believe that selling an entire collection as opposed to selling off your higher valued cards separately and then the rest of the collection would bring you less money. Maybe I'm wrong and if so I stand corrected.

Here is something I'll bet you never expected me to say. Every single thing you have said is true. Every idea you have about the industry and every way that you think it is a sham is spot on 100% accurate..FOR YOU. You are fed up with the industry and if I saw it like you do I would be too but I DON'T, MANY OF US DON'T. We all know that if we spend money now we may not, probably won't, get our money back. If we were like you we would think its a sham also but we are not like you. If everyone was like you there would be no hobby. Everyone would get out because for the vast majority of people who are like you it is a negative sum game.

The thing is we don't think you are wrong. I don't recall seeing anything after any of your rants where anyone said you were wrong. Many of us have said we don't agree with you and told you how we see it but we realize that these are your views and given the way you have chosen to look at the hobby you are right. On the other hand if you don't think it is possible for "value" and "worth" to have a meaning other than how much money you can get for it there is probably no other way to see it. You think we are wrong for not seeing it like you do. You think we are stupid for not thinking only about the money.

We understand exactly what you are saying. We know why you are upset. We understand the whole "pay $500 can't get $50 thing" None of this has anything to do with the fact that we don't get this. It has everything to do with the fact that we do get this and that is not all that matters to us. If that's all that mattered to us we would be ticked of just like you. We just don't see it the same way and that seems to bother you for some reason. For some reason, because we disagree with you, you feel the need to belittle us and call us stupid. If that makes you feel better then I guess there is nothing we can do about it.

I hope your next business venture is much more profitable for you. Perhaps you can recoup some of the money you lost in cards.

i collect cardinals and i dont ever plan on selling them.....i collect them because their my fav team.

LOL people collect tiddly winks and unicorns... is that even legal?

And like the guy who posted above me, I collect Max Scherzer, I have lost quite a bit of money collecting him, I just spent around $80 on a Scherzer White Whale. If I try and sell that card here I'd be lucky to even get back $50 but that's okay since I never plan on selling any of my Max Scherzer cards. I collect because he's one of my favorite pitcher on my favorite team!

I understand your argument, but I don't agree with it. People collect things because they have given value to them, whether it be monetary or otherwise. My one friend put it best I think when he said "When I collect, I do it because I feel like it gives me a small connection to that player." The value of the card for him, and many people here I would guess, comes from the personal connection made with the card and player. No matter what any price guide says, to him that card is valuable.

You're right of course, it may end up that every single card I have may one day be worth less than the cardboard it's printed on, but to me personally it means something. I collect T205 Chicago Cubs because those cards come from a time when being a Cubs fan meant something. I collect Ron Santo because he was all you could ever ask for in a baseball players and a person. I put a few sets together every year because I like the way they look. Would I stop doing this if suddenly Becket decided that suddenly these cards are best used for kindling instead? No, I would enjoy the collection that I built up because it means something to me. Even if it means absolutely nothing to anybody else, it means something to me and that's all that matters.

People collect "worthless" stuff all the time, be it a grandparent's diary, a child's first pair of shoes or baseball cards. Value is much like beautify, the only thing separating a good collection and a pile of garbage is the eye of the beholder.