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  1. #1

    STOLEN: Michael Jordan Fleer Playmakers 88/100 (story here)

    Hey everyone.

    I just posted the below to eBay in hope that anyone who may be offered this card for sale hear the story and does not buy the card, as it's a very serious matter. If any of you have any information on this, or know anything I don't, I'd love to hear about it here.

    This isn't the first time a thread has been started related to Amy in Australia (who goes by a ton of eBay screen names).

    -Nat

    ____

    I am a major buyer of rare Michael Jordan cards. On March 17, 2011 I purchased a Michael Jordan Fleer Playmaker's Theater BGS 9 serial numbered 088/100 (here is a link to the original auction: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI...L:COSI:US:1123). After successfully receiving the card after winning the auction (for $3,250), I scanned the card and posted it to my personal collection (link here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/natstur...57626044376996). You can clearly see the serial #.

    On June 16th, I mailed the card to Beckett Grading Services (BGS) in Dallas hoping to have the grade bumped up to a 9.5 via USPS. I also sent along two other cards, both high-end Lebron James cards (one is scanned here before I sent it: http://www.flickr.com/photos/natstur...57623033373058). Beckett never received the cards.

    About a month and a half later, my exact card which never arrived to BGS showed up on eBay for a conspicuously low BIN ($2,700) from a seller in Dallas (the same city that BGS is located in). The auction of course ended quickly, with better_cover_lover (who now goes by the_pirates_parrot). The seller was xedbats, whose name is Michael Becker (link to auction: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI...#ht_500wt_1413). I talked to Michael after locating his phone number, and he promised to hang onto the card and not sell it to better_cover_lover or anyone until we resolve things. His story at the time was that someone walked into his store in Dallas and offered him the card sight-unseen for $2,000 cash, which he paid, and then he posted the card on eBay not knowing it's true value but wanted to make a quick buck. As soon as I talked to Michael on the phone, I messaged better_cover_lover over eBay knowing that she (Amy) bought/won the auction, alerting her to the fact that Michael/xedbats was selling a card that was stolen from me, and therefore she should not pay for the item as she would be buying stolen property.

    Unfortunately, Michael went dark soon after that and never returned any of my calls or emails. In the meantime, I flew to Dallas and met with the police and postal police, and started cases with both for the stolen property which presumably was stolen out of the mail. The theory being, someone recognized who the recipient was (BGS), knew that cards that were worth grading were contained inside, and kept the package.

    Now, today, about 5 friends of mine who are big Jordan collectors have emailed me a scan of my card, with the same serial # (088/100), which has (as expected) been successfully bumped up to a 9.5 by BGS, which is being offered for sale by better_cover_lover / the_pirates_parrot. This person is Amy from Australia. In fairness to Amy, I have successfully purchased many cards from her on eBay and have had no problems, however that doesn't change the fact that she is currently in possession of my high-end stolen card which she bought from Michael Becker. It appears that she/better_cover_lover/Amy/the_pirates_parrot knowingly, after me having alerted her to the fact, bought the stolen card from Michael Becker in Dallas, got the card bumped by BGS, and is now offering it for sale.

    I have attached two photos of the card, the first in BGS 9 form of when I owned it, and the second in BGS 9.5 form that Amy is currently offering for sale. I personally find it very unethical that she would go out of her way to buy this card KNOWING that it is stolen, and then go about selling it. That doesn't speak highly to her business practices, which many people have questioned in the past.

    DO NOT BUY THIS CARD. It is stolen property, and will need to ultimately be returned to me. I am working with the authorities both in the US and Australia now to have the card recovered. If you buy this card, you are buying stolen property. I have received countless legal advice on the matter, which is unanimously centered that if you buy stolen property, and it's discovered as such, the rightful owner has the right to have the property returned without consideration (as it should be). Which is why it's important to obtain proof of ownership when you buy something high-end (such as a car, etc...). Worse, knowingly selling private property is an offense.

    Please contact me at natsturner@gmail.com or 281-923-9417 if you have any more information. Thank you

    -Nat
    AIM: snakeproductions
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  2. #2

  3. #3
    Can you please tell me this
    1) did you talk to the postmaster ?
    2) how much did you insure your card/cards for ?
    3) did you really send it to beckett ?
    I've sent a lot of cards to beckett and i know you have to insure your cards going to them & coming back to you

    so whats really going on here ?
    You didnt say one word about talking to beckett or the postoffice or postmaster
    A CARD THAT I SPENT THAT MUCH MONEY ON WILL BE GOING TO BECKETT OVERNITE
    AND COMING BACK THE SAME WAY
    FROM NOW ON THERE WILL BE A FREEBIE WITH EVERY DEAL I DO 4/11/11
    Hidden Content Hidden Content
    I TRADE BY ( BV ) SO YOUR KNOW
    UNLESS THERES NO BV ON THE CARD

  4. #4
    @DennisRSWanjr

    Yes on all counts. Of course I sent it to Beckett. I have documentation around the electronic submission form, me sending it via USPS, etc... I talked to Beckett (Jeremy Murray), who said that the cards never arrived. The tracking number just shows "at processing" according to my secretary, not delivered. I'm not blaming BGS in this process, it appears that it happened at/during USPS.

    I have talked to the postal inspectors office. I actually have a postal police report case #, i.e., there's an open case with the postal police.

    I'm less concerned with the insurance money and more concerned with getting a very rare and unique card returned.
    AIM: snakeproductions
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by natsturner View Post
    @dennisrswanjr

    yes on all counts. Of course i sent it to beckett. I have documentation around the electronic submission form, me sending it via usps, etc... I talked to beckett (jeremy murray), who said that the cards never arrived. The tracking number just shows "at processing" according to my secretary, not delivered. I'm not blaming bgs in this process, it appears that it happened at/during usps.

    I have talked to the postal inspectors office. I actually have a postal police report case #, i.e., there's an open case with the postal police.

    I'm less concerned with the insurance money and more concerned with getting a very rare and unique card returned.
    okay right
    FROM NOW ON THERE WILL BE A FREEBIE WITH EVERY DEAL I DO 4/11/11
    Hidden Content Hidden Content
    I TRADE BY ( BV ) SO YOUR KNOW
    UNLESS THERES NO BV ON THE CARD

  6. #6
    BTW here's a link to my Jordan cards to see the PC as a whole. I never sell anything, I just buy them

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/natstur...7626044376996/
    AIM: snakeproductions
    Email: Hidden Content
    Gtalk: Hidden Content

    Bucket: Hidden Content

  7. #7
    Thats really nice my friend
    please dont take it wrong im not sayin that your liein
    but if you mailed the card out and it didnt get there
    you have to get at the post office not the man/woman that has the card
    let them do that
    you want the card back and they dont wanna pay you for it
    just point them over that way >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    FROM NOW ON THERE WILL BE A FREEBIE WITH EVERY DEAL I DO 4/11/11
    Hidden Content Hidden Content
    I TRADE BY ( BV ) SO YOUR KNOW
    UNLESS THERES NO BV ON THE CARD

  8. #8
    Yes - there is an active investigation going, but the card has already changed hands multiple times now since being stolen and investigations like that aren't necessarily the fastest of things :)
    AIM: snakeproductions
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  9. #9
    That is terrible. How can somebody knowingly put that card up for sale knowing another person is the rightful owner. Money makes people do stupid things. Sorry again and hopefully you can get the card back!
    JODIE MEEKS SUPERCOLLECTOR!

  10. #10
    Lawyer here. I am unclear who you might have received your legal advice from but more than likely you will not receive the card back. The problem is, in the United States, you will only be in possession of stolen property if you know that the property is in fact stolen. If one does not know the property is stolen, then they are a bona fide good faith purchaser and there is no way you can get the card back from them. IF you ever found out and produced evidence of who stole it, then you could go after them for the amount of money the card is worth.

    The amount of evidence needed to adduce that the person knew the property is stolen typically is set relatively high. In your post you state "It appears that she/better_cover_lover/Amy/the_pirates_parrot knowingly, after me having alerted her to the fact, bought the stolen card from Michael Becker in Dallas, got the card bumped by BGS, and is now offering it for sale." Unfortunately, this is all just circumstantial evidence and will not be enough. You need hard evidence. This is such a giant loophole in the system and really makes it easy for cards to be stolen in the mail and for the people that steal them to establish an easy defense. You mentioned that the card has changed hands several times, and this will make it even more unlikely that you will receive the card. The police will go after this because it is a criminal matter...but no matter what the police tell you might happen has no bearing on what the court will do with it as a civil action.

    EDIT: I just wanted to make this distinction to everyone so you don't worry about having a card taken from you because you didn't know it was stolen. You must know the card was stolen to be charged and convicted of receiving stolen property. If you do not know the property is stolen, the item is yours free and clear.
    Last edited by mxaxtxtx; 09-22-2011 at 04:35 PM.

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