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Thread: immigration

  1. #1

    immigration

    how can we be divided on something as simple as the police checking on your citizenship if they come into contact with you for any reason?

    if you are questioned by the police, they should run your name/ss# to see if you have warrants, why not go a step further?

    can anyone explain the reasoning that this is unfair or unjust?

    it seems it is a classic conservative vs liberal issue, but i can't see sides on this one, seems pretty cut and dry

    anyone???
    Jay Shrewsbury
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  2. #2
    Are they going to "run" the citizenship of everyone, or just the ones of hispanic descent? How many times am I going to be pulled over in my border town and be subjected to this citizen check, once a month, once a week, or every day? Who's going to pay for the extra manpower this would require? Once you get a "hit" the person is going to have to be processed through a system.
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  3. #3
    i would hope anyone

    and how many times you get checked would be how many times you encounter the police for something else

    get pulled over for a traffic violation, get checked

    i am not talking about random pull overs

    also, the jobs and entitlements we will get back may equal the extra work needed to do this
    Jay Shrewsbury
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by habsheaven View Post
    Are they going to "run" the citizenship of everyone, or just the ones of hispanic descent? How many times am I going to be pulled over in my border town and be subjected to this citizen check, once a month, once a week, or every day? Who's going to pay for the extra manpower this would require? Once you get a "hit" the person is going to have to be processed through a system.
    Everytime I have ever been pulled over the police have taken my license to the police car and ran a background and warrant check. A couple of years ago I had a game warden check my hunting license and he ran a full FBI background check and made me wait for 30 minutes while he did it.

    I see no reason why anyone else should be treated any differently.

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  5. #5
    If this is in reference to the Arizona SB 1070 being heard by the Supreme Court I think that too many people who hear someone is against it misinterpret what it means to be "against it".

    As a resident of Arizona and someone who deals with this on a daily news cycle I think it strongly parallels President Obama's healthcare plan, and my feelings are similar on both accounts. I have no problem with what you described, I have problems with some of the provisions of the bill. For example, allowing someone to be stopped for "suspicion of being illegal". This can be the initial reason for the stop. If someone gets pulled over for a violation of any sort, I have no problem with requiring verification of citizenship if there is suspicion. However, what exactly can you develop the suspicion from initially besides profiling? I mean, short of having 30 people in a vehicle driving through the desert, that's a tough one for me to come up with.

    In addition, I think the part that legally requires officers to accurately pursue citizenship verifications whenever there is "reasonable suspicion" is a very dangerous position for the officers. If they are too lenient in their unquantifiable suspicion, then they can be held to the provision. However, if they go too far, they open themselves up to discrimination suits from actual citizens. It really puts our local law enforcement in a precarious situation. For me, having an officer spend too long pursuing verification when it eventually comes up prevents them from protecting my safety for threats in the interim. And even if it does come up as illegal, they are now tied into a lengthy process of detainment and arrest that takes them off their beat when that should be the job of federal law enforcement.

    Do I feel federal enforcement has its flaws? No doubt. But to increase the workload of police here is also a problem that strains our day to day police responsibilities.

    As for the parallels to the health care laws, I feel there are many provisions I agree with. However, at the same time, any bill that has 2700 pages is bound to have some I disagree with. In both cases, I feel it was a valiant effort at a huge problem that is riddled with personal agendas that overextends the authority granted to the creators. It isn't just a liberal/conservative debate to me on either account. Unfortunately, for the majority of Americans that fall more moderate as I do, politics as usual has created a win vs. lose proposition that leaves no room for compromise.

    And as my final note, I think the driving force of the Arizona laws is the exhorbiant amount of money spent on lobbiests by our private prisons. I don't want my illegal immigrants to be sentences automatically to 6 months in jail. How exactly, at a cost of hundreds of dollars per day, that decrease my economic obligation? SEND THEM BACK!
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by tylermckinzie View Post
    If this is in reference to the Arizona SB 1070 being heard by the Supreme Court I think that too many people who hear someone is against it misinterpret what it means to be "against it".

    As a resident of Arizona and someone who deals with this on a daily news cycle I think it strongly parallels President Obama's healthcare plan, and my feelings are similar on both accounts. I have no problem with what you described, I have problems with some of the provisions of the bill. For example, allowing someone to be stopped for "suspicion of being illegal". This can be the initial reason for the stop. If someone gets pulled over for a violation of any sort, I have no problem with requiring verification of citizenship if there is suspicion. However, what exactly can you develop the suspicion from initially besides profiling? I mean, short of having 30 people in a vehicle driving through the desert, that's a tough one for me to come up with.

    In addition, I think the part that legally requires officers to accurately pursue citizenship verifications whenever there is "reasonable suspicion" is a very dangerous position for the officers. If they are too lenient in their unquantifiable suspicion, then they can be held to the provision. However, if they go too far, they open themselves up to discrimination suits from actual citizens. It really puts our local law enforcement in a precarious situation. For me, having an officer spend too long pursuing verification when it eventually comes up prevents them from protecting my safety for threats in the interim. And even if it does come up as illegal, they are now tied into a lengthy process of detainment and arrest that takes them off their beat when that should be the job of federal law enforcement.

    Do I feel federal enforcement has its flaws? No doubt. But to increase the workload of police here is also a problem that strains our day to day police responsibilities.

    As for the parallels to the health care laws, I feel there are many provisions I agree with. However, at the same time, any bill that has 2700 pages is bound to have some I disagree with. In both cases, I feel it was a valiant effort at a huge problem that is riddled with personal agendas that overextends the authority granted to the creators. It isn't just a liberal/conservative debate to me on either account. Unfortunately, for the majority of Americans that fall more moderate as I do, politics as usual has created a win vs. lose proposition that leaves no room for compromise.

    And as my final note, I think the driving force of the Arizona laws is the exhorbiant amount of money spent on lobbiests by our private prisons. I don't want my illegal immigrants to be sentences automatically to 6 months in jail. How exactly, at a cost of hundreds of dollars per day, that decrease my economic obligation? SEND THEM BACK!

  7. #7
    Tyler, you make very valid points and I agree with them all. Police should not be identifying people who "look illegal" as that is blatant profiling (although looking for anyone that looks like they fit any particular description is technically profiling).

    I agree that requiring officers to pursue proof of residency or lack thereof when no evidence thatthey are illegal is immediately present is excessive. However, if a non-English speaking person is stopped and can not provide valid US I.D. then that is pretty significant proof by itself and should be pursued.

    Ultimately I place the blame for all of this on the Fed government. It is our government's responsibility to secure our borders. They are blatantly failing to do that and in some regards appear to be intentionally avoiding doing it. While other countries secure their borders with machine gun placements, armed patrols and security camera we have huge gaping holes that thousands of people casually walk through without even being noticed. Being angry or upset with Arizona lawmakers for trying to deal with the problem is misguided anger. If the Fed did it's job then laws like SB 1070 wouldn't even be needed.

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  8. #8
    I also agree with tyler. I really don't know how a person is supposed to be suspicious of one's citizenship. Officers shouldn't allowed or made to do so. I'm fine with people being checked out when they are stopped for other violations.

    Also agree with duane that the Fed is the ones that should secure the borders. However, I've always felt that enforcing labor laws would be much more effective than blocking or guarding every mile of the border. If they tightened the strings on businesses who hire illegals they could reduce a large number of people coming over illegally. I don;t know numbers but I'd assume that the majority come to work.
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  9. #9
    Obama has actually cracked down pretty hard on illegal immigration, he just hasn't had good PR on the job he's done. The US deported a record amount of illegal immigrants last year, something like 400,000. And in the past 6 years, the amount of illegal immigrants attempting to enter the US is down around 60% (that number is based off the amount of people apprehended by the Border Patrol, but it's what a lot of people use to gauge the amount of people trying to enter the US). We actually have just as many illegal Mexican immigrants leaving the country as we do entering it.

    Credit should be due in part to Mr. Obama on this, but also attributed to both the recession and the increase and ease of availability of birth control methods in Mexico, which has lowered its birth rates to near-U.S. levels.
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  10. #10
    The easiest way to do this is through the computer system when the run the warrants/license check...they can add a provision to the server where it would pull citizenship...if there is anything wrong, then they can ask for more documentation. I just think that pulling you over just because you "look" illegal will be motive enough to pull everyone over....there is nothing illegal about looking like something...u need to commit something against the law for this.

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