Playing Chicken with Gay Marriage

[mikesilvia]

When the New York Post puts a fast-food chicken franchise on page one, you know some feathers have been ruffled, so to speak. And, indeed, the Chick-fil-A outfit can forget about catering any gay marriage receptions,...

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[theonedru]

Gay marriage is not a civil right in the USA, although for a gay couple to get a lot of the same privileges that straight couples get ( tax incentives, death benefits, estate rights, ect) they would have to be married .... Why do people refuse to ignore this this is why gays should be allowed to marry/civil union. They have us fighting over silly little things like this while the government rapes our lands and resources and leading us down the road to economic ruin and they laugh at Americans stupidity as to how easy it is to blind us like this.

[JustAlex]

Gay marriage is not a civil right in the USA, although for a gay couple to get a lot of the same privileges that straight couples get ( tax incentives, death benefits, estate rights, ect) they would have to be married .... Why do people refuse to ignore this this is why gays should be allowed to marry/civil union. They have us fighting over silly little things like this while the government rapes our lands and resources and leading us down the road to economic ruin and they laugh at Americans stupidity as to how easy it is to blind us like this.

So, if you're able to fully understand why the denial of gay marriage affects gay people.....

Why do you sometime criticize me when I go after the BIGGEST proponents of those denials.....christians!


There's a good reason (IMO) why I'm so hard on religion, they corrupt the mind, they manipulate the masses, and they are dangerous.

An individual by himself is generally a decent person only wanting to live in peace.....bring a lot of those individuals together, give them strict rules and the threat of an everlasting torment in hell, and they change in amazing ways.

Christians who are against gay marriage can't help themselves.....they really can't.

When I was a christian this is how my mind worked:

-The Bible (the highest authority on this planet) clearly says that homosexuality is a sin and god does not like sin.

-As a good christian I want to follow the bible.

-That means I reject homosexauality and I treat it like every other sin (murder, stealing, rape, adultery, etc.)

-Therefore, gay marriage is in direct opposition to the bible, and I must fight it, regardless how I actually feel about it.


^That right there is how my mind worked while I was a christian, I'm NOT saying that's how every christian's mind is, but many are similar.

[Zimbow]

I guess I could label myself as a Christian to some extent. I have no problems with gay people at all. We have a gay couple that attends our church as well. Couple of the nicest people at the church actually. I've spoken with them a few times on their beliefs. Of the times spoken, 1 thing in common comes to mind with me and them. We each believe in the same thing, Christ. It's awesome because no matter how our personal lives differ, our beliefs are the same.

[Wickabee]

So, if you're able to fully understand why the denial of gay marriage affects gay people.....

Why do you sometime criticize me when I go after the BIGGEST proponents of those denials.....christians!

Denying gay people, or anyone for that matter, was not a teaching Christ would have agreed with. He wouldn't have agreed with their homosexuality, but not with lesser treatment. That is a teaching of the church, not Christ. You often go after core beliefs instead of hypocrisy.

There's a good reason (IMO) why I'm so hard on religion, they corrupt the mind, they manipulate the masses, and they are dangerous.

An individual by himself is generally a decent person only wanting to live in peace.....bring a lot of those individuals together, give them strict rules and the threat of an everlasting torment in hell, and they change in amazing ways.

Christians who are against gay marriage can't help themselves.....they really can't.

When I was a christian this is how my mind worked:

-The Bible (the highest authority on this planet) clearly says that homosexuality is a sin and god does not like sin.

-As a good christian I want to follow the bible.

-That means I reject homosexauality and I treat it like every other sin (murder, stealing, rape, adultery, etc.)

-Therefore, gay marriage is in direct opposition to the bible, and I must fight it, regardless how I actually feel about it.


^That right there is how my mind worked while I was a christian, I'm NOT saying that's how every christian's mind is, but many are similar.

Like you say, a lot do think that way, but a lot don't. The ones who follow Christ's actual teachings and ignore that edited versions of the church itself don't. Many who disagree with gay marriage don't. Not every one of them thinks we're inviting the fist of god. But you treat them as if they do.

[JustAlex]

Like you say, a lot do think that way, but a lot don't. The ones who follow Christ's actual teachings and ignore that edited versions of the church itself don't. Many who disagree with gay marriage don't. Not every one of them thinks we're inviting the fist of god. But you treat them as if they do.

So, do you believe that there are christians who are against gay marriage for other reasons than the fact that the bible says it's a sin?

If so, could you elaborate on those reasons?

Christ didn't say anything on Homosexuality, he also didn't say anything on Pedophilia, and a million other things....how do christians know what is right and wrong if their bible doesn't say it?

Are colors good or bad?

[Wickabee]

So, do you believe that there are christians who are against gay marriage for other reasons than the fact that the bible says it's a sin?

If so, could you elaborate on those reasons?

Sure. There are those who don't care about the sinners sinning, but simply don't want anything to do with gays to be called marriage because marriage is a man and woman bound by God. Not a man and man or woman and woman. It has nothing to do with homosexuality being a sin, more of a technicality.

Christ didn't say anything on Homosexuality, he also didn't say anything on Pedophilia, and a million other things....how do christians know what is right and wrong if their bible doesn't say it?

He said love they neighbour as thyself. Sounds to me like that would include not raping the kid next door, don't you think?

Are colors good or bad?

Depends who you ask. Some would say they're good because they mark friends and foes in the street. Other would say they're bad because they perpetuate a negative stereotype of violent black on black crime. What that has to do with this conversation, I do not know.

[JustAlex]

Sure. There are those who don't care about the sinners sinning, but simply don't want anything to do with gays to be called marriage because marriage is a man and woman bound by God. Not a man and man or woman and woman. It has nothing to do with homosexuality being a sin, more of a technicality.

Well yeah, I thought you would go towards this area.

But here's the thing which I can't get, no where in the bible does it say that marriage is EXCLUSIVELY for one man and one woman.....the reason why many christians say this is because they INTERPRET it that way.

Remember King David was allowed MULTIPLE Wives and Concubines.....this shows that the bible endorses Polygamy!

This issue (IMHO) will always go towards the fact that the bible says homosexuality is a sin, if the bible would have NEVER mentioned anything on gays, I believe gay marriage would've been legal a very long time ago.

He said love they neighbour as thyself. Sounds to me like that would include not raping the kid next door, don't you think?

Yes, it's pretty much the golden rule.

But, what if it's consensual?

It's still wrong, right?

But how do they know it's wrong if there is no contradiction.


Here's a better question.....if Lying is a "sin", how do you measure that in a life or death situation?

Pretend you're living in Nazi Germany and you're hiding Jews in your home....the Gestapo comes to your door and asks you if you have seen or know the whereabouts of any Jews....your mind has to do a quick balance of which is greater.....Lying to save lives, or saying the truth and watch lives get destroyed?


How do Christians get around this dilemma?

Depends who you ask. Some would say they're good because they mark friends and foes in the street. Other would say they're bad because they perpetuate a negative stereotype of violent black on black crime. What that has to do with this conversation, I do not know.

I asked because it's a silly question but at the same time it makes you think.

How can something like colors be good or bad?

And yet we know that Black and White are colors often used as good and evil and they are given properties.

Black = Despair, darkness

White = Light, hope

But if we're strictly looking at colors they're not good or bad, they're perceptions of what our eyes can see, if you were blind colors are meaningless.

This is obviously starting to get philosophical, but that's what good vs. bad, Right vs. Wrong is.

[Wickabee]

Well yeah, I thought you would go towards this area.

But here's the thing which I can't get, no where in the bible does it say that marriage is EXCLUSIVELY for one man and one woman.....the reason why many christians say this is because they INTERPRET it that way.

Remember King David was allowed MULTIPLE Wives and Concubines.....this shows that the bible endorses Polygamy!

This issue (IMHO) will always go towards the fact that the bible says homosexuality is a sin, if the bible would have NEVER mentioned anything on gays, I believe gay marriage would've been legal a very long time ago.

The fact it's a sin is part of it, but not everyone is against it because it's a sin.

Yes, it's pretty much the golden rule.

But, what if it's consensual?

It's still wrong, right?

But how do they know it's wrong if there is no contradiction.


Here's a better question.....if Lying is a "sin", how do you measure that in a life or death situation?

Pretend you're living in Nazi Germany and you're hiding Jews in your home....the Gestapo comes to your door and asks you if you have seen or know the whereabouts of any Jews....your mind has to do a quick balance of which is greater.....Lying to save lives, or saying the truth and watch lives get destroyed?


How do Christians get around this dilemma?

I've answered this for you before. a Christian is to follow the law of the land so long as it does not interfere with God's law. Since there's no law from Godthat says consentual sex with a 4 year old is mandatory, they follow the law of the land. Though I think many of them individually feel sickened by the idea (they do think for themselves sometimes, you know).
With the Nazi's, God wants us to help one another through hardships. This would be helping the Jew by lying. Lying for a good purpose isn't a sin. Killing for the right reasons isn't even a sin.

I asked because it's a silly question but at the same time it makes you think.

How can something like colors be good or bad?

And yet we know that Black and White are colors often used as good and evil and they are given properties.

Black = Despair, darkness

White = Light, hope

But if we're strictly looking at colors they're not good or bad, they're perceptions of what our eyes can see, if you were blind colors are meaningless.

This is obviously starting to get philosophical, but that's what good vs. bad, Right vs. Wrong is.

Well yes, some things can't be ingerently good or bad, some can. With people, they're mostly neither, but they make good or bad decisions, some more frequently than others.

I suppose the only real measure of right and wrong that stands at all is society. It hasn't always been right, but it's done the best job of both creating and enforcing imagined morals.

[JustAlex]

I've answered this for you before. a Christian is to follow the law of the land so long as it does not interfere with God's law. Since there's no law from Godthat says consentual sex with a 4 year old is mandatory, they follow the law of the land. Though I think many of them individually feel sickened by the idea (they do think for themselves sometimes, you know).
With the Nazi's, God wants us to help one another through hardships. This would be helping the Jew by lying. Lying for a good purpose isn't a sin. Killing for the right reasons isn't even a sin.

Yes, I remember now, you did in fact answer this question before.

Sorry to repeat myself to you, I really did forget.....I've brought this questions to many christians in the past and their answers are very mixed.

Although yours is one I can agree with, IMO, it still violates the fact that a sin will always be a sin.

One can say that killing for the right reason isn't a sin, but it's still a contradiction to "Thou shalt not kill" (Well, to me anyways).

Of course this topic is dwelling on "Absolute Morality" and that is an issue which is never ending in the apologetic christian community.

Well yes, some things can't be ingerently good or bad, some can. With people, they're mostly neither, but they make good or bad decisions, some more frequently than others.

I suppose the only real measure of right and wrong that stands at all is society. It hasn't always been right, but it's done the best job of both creating and enforcing imagined morals.

And that's where I am today....with society.

And as a society we should freely think whether or not gay marriage is good or bad, and you obviously know my position.

Anyways, this is a good debate......I'm talking about the philosophy of good vs. bad, right vs. wrong, religion vs. society.