Who would you give the NL MVP to?

**GiantsSB42Champs** · 09-07-2012, 09:03 AM

Posey or Holliday

**duwal** · 09-07-2012, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by lambeausouth

LOL @ all the Buster Posey love. Braun has twice as many home runs. His OPS is 67 points higher. Braun has 14 more RBI, 28 more runs scored. The only thing Posey is doing better is his batting average, and that's only 13 points.

really?? You're laughing just because you don't agree with people's choice that isn't your own. You are underestimating your assessment of Posey as you are only looking at one aspect of both ballplayers, purely their offensive stats without looking at what else Posey provides for the team. He's arguably the best hitting catcher in the league while also doing a great job at catching and working with a pitching staff and studying opponents. Also plays half his games in one of the toughest hitter parks in the league, no telling how much his offensive numbers would increase if his home games were in a launching pad like Milwaukee or other good parks for hitter

Both have had great years and no one would really flinch if either won the award. Its just a difference of one that is a power hitting offensive player with stats above just about everyone else versus another that could be more of a complete player that is carrying a team into the playoffs

**sanfran22** · 09-07-2012, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by duwal

really?? You're laughing just because you don't agree with people's choice that isn't your own. You are underestimating your assessment of Posey as you are only looking at one aspect of both ballplayers, purely their offensive stats without looking at what else Posey provides for the team. He's arguably the best hitting catcher in the league while also doing a great job at catching and working with a pitching staff and studying opponents. Also plays half his games in one of the toughest hitter parks in the league, no telling how much his offensive numbers would increase if his home games were in a launching pad like Milwaukee or other good parks for hitter

Both have had great years and no one would really flinch if either won the award. Its just a difference of one that is a power hitting offensive player with stats above just about everyone else versus another that could be more of a complete player that is carrying a team into the playoffs

Agree with this.:)

**gladdyontherise** · 09-07-2012, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by duwal

really?? You're laughing just because you don't agree with people's choice that isn't your own. You are underestimating your assessment of Posey as you are only looking at one aspect of both ballplayers, purely their offensive stats without looking at what else Posey provides for the team. He's arguably the best hitting catcher in the league while also doing a great job at catching and working with a pitching staff and studying opponents. Also plays half his games in one of the toughest hitter parks in the league, no telling how much his offensive numbers would increase if his home games were in a launching pad like Milwaukee or other good parks for hitter

Both have had great years and no one would really flinch if either won the award. Its just a difference of one that is a power hitting offensive player with stats above just about everyone else versus another that could be more of a complete player that is carrying a team into the playoffs

There's the narrative!

(and just a random fact, Posey currently has a slightly higher OPS+ than Braun, who plays in a bandbox)

**the 'stache** · 09-08-2012, 02:54 AM

Top of the 13th inning, 4-4 against the Cardinals, Braun with a bomb!!!! #38 on the year, and his 100th RBI. None bigger this year.

MVP MVP MVP MVP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And the Brewers win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**gladdyontherise** · 09-08-2012, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by lambeausouth

Top of the 13th inning, 4-4 against the Cardinals, Braun with a bomb!!!! #38 on the year, and his 100th RBI. None bigger this year.

MVP MVP MVP MVP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And the Brewers win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not trying to start anything, but what's the difference between Kemp in 2011 and Braun in 2012? Yet, you said Kemp shouldn't of been MVP over Braun despite having better numbers.

I just don't understand it. I personally have never thought your team needs to make the playoffs to win the MVP (because making your team an 80 win team instead of a 70 win team is the same as going from an 80 win team to a 90 win team.

**the 'stache** · 09-08-2012, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by gladdyontherise

I'm not trying to start anything, but what's the difference between Kemp in 2011 and Braun in 2012? Yet, you said Kemp shouldn't of been MVP over Braun despite having better numbers.

First, I don't think Kemp had better numbers than Braun last year. Six more home runs, 15 more RBI and 6 more runs...but he also played 15 more games. Braun had the higher average, slugging and OPS.

There is nobody that compares statistically to Braun this year. Kemp and Votto both missed 50 + games (nearly a full third of the season by it's conclusion). McCutchen has a better average (.343 to .312) , but he doesn't have anywhere near Braun's power numbers (38 HR to 24, and 100 RBI to 83). Braun has more stolen bases (23 of 29 (79%) to 16 out of 27 (59%)). Braun is way ahead in OPS (.993 to .964). And Pittsburgh is only 4.5 games ahead of Milwaukee. If McCutchen is an MVP candidate, then Braun is, too.

Posey? He's having a fine year, and San Francisco leads the NL East, with a record 10 games better than Milwaukee. Posey's .323 AVG is only 11 points above Braun's. And his power numbers (19 HR and 85 RBI) are nowhere near Braun's. Defense? Both Braun and Posey have the lowest fielding pct at their positions in the NL (I do agree that fielding pct is not the best indicator. Errors happen sometimes, and neither have a lot). Posey has the third highest RF of all catchers in the NL. Braun has the #1 RF of all NL left fielders, and the third best UZR of all NL left fielders. There's no huge defensive advantage I'm seeing for Posey here, certainly not enough to overcome the huge discrepancy in offensive numbers.

If there were a player on a playoff-bound team with comparable numbers, I'd say they're probably going to win. But there's just nobody close, at least right now.

**gladdyontherise** · 09-08-2012, 07:27 PM

Let's be fair though, Braun plays in a bandbox which will inflate his numbers slightly, Kemp had a higher OPS+ (slightly higher, that is) than Braun last year and same thus far for Posey. (Although, I don't think he's the MVP).

And I feel like I say this far too often, but RBI is an incredibly meaningless stat. It's all based on chances with runners on base.

**lambeauleap87** · 09-08-2012, 07:35 PM

So what I'm getting is...since the Brewers made the playoffs last year, Braun deserved the MVP, despite have an inferior season to Matt Kemp. That was, apparently, why got it. However, this year Braun deserves the MVP despite the fact that Milwaukee is far from contention. Braun, like Kemp in 2011, deserves the MVP this year. However, using that logic, Braun should finish behind Posey in MVP voting. It's that simple, and the same logic that was presented last year.

Not to mention, Posey is a catcher and invaluable to the Giants. You can find a multitude of very good outfielders, but a great catcher is few and far between. It's not the "Best Hitter" award; it's the "Most Valuable Player" award.

Also, Braun's a cheater.

**the 'stache** · 09-08-2012, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by lambeauleap87

So what I'm getting is...since the Brewers made the playoffs last year, Braun deserved the MVP, despite have an inferior season to Matt Kemp. That was, apparently, why got it. However, this year Braun deserves the MVP despite the fact that Milwaukee is far from contention. Braun, like Kemp in 2011, deserves the MVP this year. However, using that logic, Braun should finish behind Posey in MVP voting. It's that simple, and the same logic that was presented last year.

Not to mention, Posey is a catcher and invaluable to the Giants. You can find a multitude of very good outfielders, but a great catcher is few and far between. It's not the "Best Hitter" award; it's the "Most Valuable Player" award.

Also, Braun's a cheater.

Braun's not invaluable to the Brewers? Especially after losing Prince Fielder? Where would the Brewers be right now without him? Certainly not in the playoff race.

Posey is a great player, but how is he any more invaluable to his team than Yadier Molina is to the Cardinals, who are also in the race. I don't see you making the case for him. Molina is batting .322 with 18 HR, very similar to Posey, and he's a much better defensive catcher.