Who would you give the NL MVP to?

**pwaldo** · 09-13-2012, 03:38 PM

I'm surprised by the support of Andrew McCutchen. If I didn't vote for Posey my second choice would be Braun easily.

**baseballboy2** · 09-13-2012, 03:49 PM

McCutchen's stock has really dropped in my opinion. He hasn't done too much lately and that has really put the Pirates in a rough spot.

**the 'stache** · 09-14-2012, 01:35 AM

Originally Posted by baseballboy2

Like Duwal said, how valuable is a top notch player on a team that is going nowhere? Not to say that the Brewers aren't going anywhere, but at this point in the season, it's going to be tough to catch ground.

I like these spirited debates we have, baseballboy2.

Much respect.

It will be tough for them to make up that ground, for sure, but a month ago, they were 12 games under .500, and look where they are now. We're getting contributions from other places, and that's why we're winning. It's not just Ryan Braun, Corey Hart and Aramis Ramirez. Carlos Gomez, Rickie Weeks, Jonathan Lucroy....are all stepping up.

**the 'stache** · 09-14-2012, 01:38 AM

Originally Posted by pwaldo

I'm surprised by the support of Andrew McCutchen. If I didn't vote for Posey my second choice would be Braun easily.

As am I. McCutchen had a great first half, and an outstanding season overall. But like last year, the Pirates have swooned late in the season, and McCutchen's fall off in productivity is a big part of that reason. He can't be considered a serious contender for MVP unless he really starts lighting it up again in these last twenty games or so.

**Devlin** · 09-14-2012, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by gladdyontherise

I think you're underrating the value he brings as a catcher. His offensive production at catcher (on most days) is more valuable than if he was an everyday 1st basemen.

This is how we all felt when Kemp didn't win MVP last year, though.

A very good point Catchers like posey don't come along very often. he's expected to call a good game, be a clean-up hitter, and do well defensively.All in a position that beats u up physically

**the 'stache** · 09-14-2012, 08:00 AM

Ok then, so why isn't Yadier Molina an MVP candidate? He's not even mentioned. The Cardinals are the defending World Champions.

Comparison:

Yadier Molina .319 AVG, 18 HR, 65 RBI, .371 OBP, .497 SLG, .867 OPS
Buster Posey .333 AVG, 21 HR, 89 RBI, .408 OBP, .542 SLG, .949 OPS

Posey has slightly better offensive numbers, but Molina is by far the better defensive catcher. And unlike Posey who has had a healthy Cain, Bumgarner and Lincecum all season (and Lincecum was awful in the first half), Posey has had to deal with a pitching rotation full of injuries. Adam Wainright came back after missing a full season, and was very rusty to start off. Chris Carpenter, one of the best pitchers in the NL, and a former 20 game winner, hasn't even stepped on the mound this year.

If you ask me, Molina has done more for his team than Posey has done for the Giants, when we include defense. Molina beats Posey in fielding pct .997 to .991, has thrown out more runners .47 % to 29%. Molina has allowed only 33 stolen bases all year, and Posey has allowed 80. Molina has a dWAR of 2.4. Posey has a dWAR of 0.2.

If we're going to include the "catcher is the hardest position on the field" line of thinking, where is Yadi? St. Louis is in position to make the playoffs, and in fact, they only have 6 fewer wins than San Francisco, even though they've not had Chris Carpenter all year, or Lance Berkman...and they lost the best hitter in a generation. How about we give Molina his fair due? He's not even listed as an MVP candidate, and I would wager he's a more deserving name on this list than Matt Kemp, or Joey Votto, who will have missed 1/3 of the season.

**gladdyontherise** · 09-14-2012, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by lambeausouth

Ok then, so why isn't Yadier Molina an MVP candidate? He's not even mentioned. The Cardinals are the defending World Champions.

Comparison:

Yadier Molina .319 AVG, 18 HR, 65 RBI, .371 OBP, .497 SLG, .867 OPS
Buster Posey .333 AVG, 21 HR, 89 RBI, .408 OBP, .542 SLG, .949 OPS

Posey has slightly better offensive numbers, but Molina is by far the better defensive catcher. And unlike Posey who has had a healthy Cain, Bumgarner and Lincecum all season (and Lincecum was awful in the first half), Posey has had to deal with a pitching rotation full of injuries. Adam Wainright came back after missing a full season, and was very rusty to start off. Chris Carpenter, one of the best pitchers in the NL, and a former 20 game winner, hasn't even stepped on the mound this year.

If you ask me, Molina has done more for his team than Posey has done for the Giants, when we include defense. Molina beats Posey in fielding pct .997 to .991, has thrown out more runners .47 % to 29%. Molina has allowed only 33 stolen bases all year, and Posey has allowed 80. Molina has a dWAR of 2.4. Posey has a dWAR of 0.2.

If we're going to include the "catcher is the hardest position on the field" line of thinking, where is Yadi? St. Louis is in position to make the playoffs, and in fact, they only have 6 fewer wins than San Francisco, even though they've not had Chris Carpenter all year, or Lance Berkman...and they lost the best hitter in a generation. How about we give Molina his fair due? He's not even listed as an MVP candidate, and I would wager he's a more deserving name on this list than Matt Kemp, or Joey Votto, who will have missed 1/3 of the season.

dWAR is a terrible stat, but I personally ignore Molina (who is a great player) because I don't buy into his narrative (or anyone elses).

**the 'stache** · 09-14-2012, 09:44 AM

What narrative? He's nearly Posey's offensive equal, and he dusts Posey defensively. They're both on teams with a high likelyhood of making the playoffs, so why is one an MVP candidate, and the other is not?

**gladdyontherise** · 09-14-2012, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by lambeausouth

What narrative? He's nearly Posey's offensive equal, and he dusts Posey defensively. They're both on teams with a high likelyhood of making the playoffs, so why is one an MVP candidate, and the other is not?

The "leading his team despite pitching injuries". Every team has injuries, and besides, the Cardinals don't have a bad rotation, even without Carpenter and Garcia, who missed a lot of time this season.

**duwal** · 09-14-2012, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by lambeausouth

Ok then, so why isn't Yadier Molina an MVP candidate? He's not even mentioned. The Cardinals are the defending World Champions.

Comparison:

Yadier Molina .319 AVG, 18 HR, 65 RBI, .371 OBP, .497 SLG, .867 OPS
Buster Posey .333 AVG, 21 HR, 89 RBI, .408 OBP, .542 SLG, .949 OPS

Posey has slightly better offensive numbers, but Molina is by far the better defensive catcher. And unlike Posey who has had a healthy Cain, Bumgarner and Lincecum all season (and Lincecum was awful in the first half), Posey has had to deal with a pitching rotation full of injuries. Adam Wainright came back after missing a full season, and was very rusty to start off. Chris Carpenter, one of the best pitchers in the NL, and a former 20 game winner, hasn't even stepped on the mound this year.

If you ask me, Molina has done more for his team than Posey has done for the Giants, when we include defense. Molina beats Posey in fielding pct .997 to .991, has thrown out more runners .47 % to 29%. Molina has allowed only 33 stolen bases all year, and Posey has allowed 80. Molina has a dWAR of 2.4. Posey has a dWAR of 0.2.

If we're going to include the "catcher is the hardest position on the field" line of thinking, where is Yadi? St. Louis is in position to make the playoffs, and in fact, they only have 6 fewer wins than San Francisco, even though they've not had Chris Carpenter all year, or Lance Berkman...and they lost the best hitter in a generation. How about we give Molina his fair due? He's not even listed as an MVP candidate, and I would wager he's a more deserving name on this list than Matt Kemp, or Joey Votto, who will have missed 1/3 of the season.

some people have talked about Molina possibly being a candidate but it is tough when you also have had guys like Beltran and Holliday and others having big seasons in the hitters park as well. Giants had one good guy, Melky, and after he got caught and suspended everyone including most Giants fans thought 'oh well, there goes the season'. I didn't give them any shot of keeping up with the Dodgers especially after all of their moves but Posey has had the type of second half to carry the team and they're just games away from locking up the division even with their starting pitching from Zito, Vogelsong, Bumgarner faltering