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09-07-2012, 04:04 PM #1
The Philosophy thread.
OK, I gotta admit, philosophy is something I have always been very interested in.
I feel that we don't get to talk about it that much around here, and I thought it would be a good idea to start a thread on it.
Here we can talk about any philosophical topics.
So, I'll begin......with the problem of "Eternal Life".
The majority of religions have taught that humans are eternal, that when they die their soul/spirit/essence will live on for "Eternity" in another place/reality/life/incomprehensible state.
The problem with most of these teachings is that they only promise this "eternal life" once you are born, what about Pre-life?
If a soul/spirit/essence is real and if it is "eternal" then why can't any of us remember anything before we were born?
If that sounds like a silly question, then maybe you should ask it more often.
Why do we naturally assume there is an afterlife if we are so sure that there isn't a pre-life.
Why is one reasonable to accept but not the other?
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09-07-2012, 04:07 PM #2
everything begins after IT ends.
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09-07-2012, 04:10 PM #3
Some religions believe in reincarnation and I have actually heard that earlier versions of the bible made refrence to such but it has since been removed. I can't verify if it is fact or not and nobody else on here can either.Drug and smoke free trading.
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09-07-2012, 04:12 PM #4
My take on afterlife is this.
It's a religious teaching, but it permeates all religions. The source, to me, seems to be much more human than that. With the anti-aging industry being a cut-throat one worth billions upon billions of dollars, it's not hard to see that people inherently want to live forever. Reality, though, tells us we don't, never have and probably never will.
Enter the afterlife
The idea that your soul goes somewhere to continue on and is either rewarded or tortured based on the life you lived comes from the want and need to live forever running head on into the knowledge that we can't. It's more comforting to believe that you deceased loved one is continuing on without you than rotting in the ground. It's easier to say, "she's with God now" than "she's got maggots now" and we act accordingly.
People also use the afterlife as a "Santa's watching" or "Just wait until I tell your father". If you're good, you continue with your soul and are rewarded for eternity. If not, you continue with your soul and are tortured for eternity. So you'd better be good.
Basically, in my mind, the idea of afterlife is a very human one constructed for comfort and to keep people in line.
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09-07-2012, 04:15 PM #5
But doesn't that contradicts the ideal of "eternal"......you know something that doesn't have a beginning or end?
Have you ever thought about this?
So, we live 70 years on earth, then it's millions, billions, trillions, quadrillions, quintillion, sextillion years! Doing what?
Doesn't this make life on earth utterly pointless?!?!
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09-07-2012, 04:38 PM #6
I don't know about souls, but the Bible does claim that God himself is "The alpha and the omega" and "from time everlasting to time everlasting" indicating that he was never born and will never die. We don't care so much about "never born" for ourselves, but never die sounds great.
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09-07-2012, 04:59 PM #7
I think the christian god is the perfect example of "one-upmanship"
Think about it.
Let's say a group says "My god is super powerful and can create life".
Oh yeah!
Well my god is omnipresent!
Oh Yeah!
Well my god is omniscience!
Oh YEAH!
Well my god is ETERNAL!
So the christian god is everything and more! And yet, somehow, the devil still poses a threat to him and his creation?
HOW? WHY?
Imagine if a superhero had every single power that any superhero can have......super strength, invisibility, super speed, telekinesis, etc.
How could there be any crime?
How can evil exist in a reality where there is a god that literally has every single power, where he can create just by speaking, where he knows everything in advance, where he is immortal, where he can do whatever he pleases?
It just doesn't make sense...
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09-07-2012, 05:15 PM #8
Sort of, but religions didn't come to be through schoolyard arguments. As much as it seems NOW that they act this way (and they sort of do) the idea of an eternal God does not come from a need to "one-up" anyone. I see what you're saying and, were religion or the idea of an eternal God a fairly new construct, I might even agree. The reality is you are simplifying it too much, and putting a competitiveness into the actual original construct of the belief, which does not exist. Competition exists now, but when the beliefs were thought up or taught or however they came to be, it just simply wasn't as you see it here.
Not to him, just his creation. Satan challenged God and God cast him out of heaven for it. He did not simply destroy Satan because"
A - He loved Satan. Satan was, at one time, God's #2 or Cpt. Riker, if you will.
B - Simply destroying Satan would do just that, and nothing more. He doesn't prove Satan wrong in challenging his authority.
As many people who think God should have just killed Satan think that the President taking the same approach to a challenger would be horrible. Sounds to me like that has nothing to do with what is right or wrong and everything to do with finding fault with God no matter the situation, actions or words.
Satan poses a threat because he has the ability to deceive people and take them "off the path". Again, he doesn't pose a threat to God himself, or to heaven, but to us he does. "Kill him" you say? Well, logic would dictate that another angel in high standing would see that and realize that it did not prove Satan wrong and that Satan could still very well be right. It's like a father using one misbehaving child as an example.
Unfortunately, God is not a DC character...
It makes sense once you realize that, while God is God and he loves everyone very much, he's not going to do everything for you. There is value to living through pain, making it through hardships, succeeding where it seemed impossible. There is value in loss and learning. If everything was great and there was no death, no discomfort, no evil, no hunger, there would be no learning. It would be a useless endeavor and completely unnecessary. If you want to live in a world of complete and total blissful idiocy with no progress of any kind, that's your business. I don't want to, that's for sure.
Do you want everything done for you? Maybe that's why you don't believe in God.
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09-07-2012, 05:19 PM #9
if we look at the idea of wu ji, we will see that everything has come from one and returns to it. so your pre and post existence is eternal. when the wu ji divided it created the two, or a term most are familiar with, yin and yang. then the two splits, and this continues.
interesting enough it syncs up with modern technology, 8, 64, 256, and so on. it also lines up with Judaic teachings, the I Ching and many other religions and teachings.
whether you believe you came from the dirt and will return, came from the atom and will return, came from a god and will return, it all involves pre and post eternal existence.
even evolution and the big bang are designed around this idea, we all started from a single source, thus we are part of this source, and will always be, our human life it just one phase of how we effect and relate to the universe.
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09-07-2012, 05:39 PM #10
I read your entire post and like usual I very much appreciate your responses, I'm targeting only one quote because I felt it was the biggest and most important one.
No, I don't want everything done for me, but at the same time there is too much nonsense in the world to make me belief that god is real or cares.
However, that is not the reason I don't believe in him.
I don't believe because there is no evidence.
However, I'm not closed to the idea that god COULD exist, I just need evidence.....and I'm talking about REAL testable evidence, not an "experience".Last edited by JustAlex; 09-07-2012 at 05:41 PM.
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Originally Posted by JustAlex 
