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  1. #31
    I do agree that ITG (other comapanies also!) does oversoing with all those darn 1/1 and ultra-low printed cards....because mostly of us player-collectors do pursit after all cards of a specific player and it's very difficult to ignore a nice 1/1 card of our favorite player even if it totally kills ours wallets....

    BUT..! My both PC-collection would been absolutely nothing without ITG (like many other players almost only appears at ITG's cards) so I'm thankful that ITG exists, but I don't like that in the fact that ITG often uses same photo of a specific player again and again, year after year....they just need to uppgrade their database of photos....
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  2. #32
    At the end of the day, it all comes down to this:

    Panini - has no clue in what they are doing in the hockey card market. They simply copy the old Pacific handbook and occasionally go onto ebay, see what is selling and make cheaper "knock-offs" of the popular cards. Do they care that just like in the Pacific days, they are flooding/destroying the market - heck no. As long as people keep buying their product today.

    Upper Deck - they have become just like the Senator from your state, who has been in office for the last 30-years - entitled, lazy etc. Hockey card revenue makes-up such a small percentage of their total gross, that they don't really give two hoots about hockey collectors - would any other company in any other business, get away with such lousy customer service? They pump-out the same stuff every year, make good use of their deals with Crosby, Gretzky etc. and make the majority of the hockey card revenues, when they sell retail packs to the large chain stores. Then, once a year, they finish-up with The Cup and all is forgiven with collectors.

    ITG - they try, sometimes they even listen but in the end, they just can't put it all together. For all intensive purposes, their "market" is the province of Ontario and they seem fine in accepting that. Yes, I'm sure that many people will weigh-in and say they collect ITG and live elsewhere but I'm talking "big-picture" here - where the majority of their sales are. One of the best products in the past decade, was Bleu Blanc et Rouge and very few people in Qweebec would even touch it. A Montreal Canadiens "super high-end" product, that couldn't sell in Qweebec??? Unless you choose to bring in wax from the East, people in Western Canada can barely even get ITG product in quantity - if they wanted it. Same holds true for many states in the US.

    Does anybody else miss the good ol days when it was just OPC or Topps?

    Going forward;

    Panini appears to have no plan or clue on their evolution - probably just come out with even a more expensive product then Dominion next year.

    Upper Deck - won't even bother to look at things, until their bottom-line starts to drop. Then, they can "tease" collectors with a great product like they did with 04-05 Premier. This will shut collectors up for awhile and things will go back to business as normal.

    ITG - license or no license, they may have the best chance to "take the reigns" in the hobby and run with them. Unfortunately, there's been no indication that they "will" or even "can" take that next step. Heck, maybe they should try and get a copy of that old Pacific playbook themselves? At least everyone on the planet that wanted Pacific products, could get them.


    At the end of the day, as long as people keep spending the money that they are, why would the companies change?
    Last edited by bdiam; 11-15-2012 at 02:48 AM.

  3. #33
    Panini has done a pathetic job with the Pacific Playbook.

    They have taken one of the most premier products, Crown Royale and cheapened it to street walker status. They should feel shame.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by centrehice View Post
    Panini has done a pathetic job with the Pacific Playbook.

    They have taken one of the most premier products, Crown Royale and cheapened it to street walker status. They should feel shame.
    The hobby has changed drastically since when Pacific originally released Crown Royale. If Panini released Crown Royale without autos or memorabilia cards falling 1 a pack it wouldn't sell in today's market. The problem with that is it floods the market and waters down the value of cards. Then factor in the Upper Deck bias of collectors and you get Panini cards selling cheaper than comparable UD cards even if the Panini cards are designed better. The Dominion RPA /99 is much nicer looking than The Cup yet sell way cheaper.
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  5. #35
    I have been collecting Sergei Fedorov for about 15 years, except that 11 years ago I took a break... went to grad school, got married, bought a house. Came back to the hobby a couple of months ago and picked up, where I had left off. Only now the cards that were so hot at the end of the 90's and in early 00's can be had for a fraction of the cost. That's how a break helps you. If you are truly frustrated... take a break. It helps. And just maybe it sends a message to the card companies that collecting is not just about limited editions, but also the number of those editions. Although, that's not likely. These companies pay a pretty penny for licensing, so it's no wonder they try to get a bang for their buck. I've done merchandising and that's exactly how it works... and exactly how guys like Mike Bossy end up on hundreds of cards each year.

    For player collectors, who want every card of a certain player, taking a break is very helpful. Another option is to limit your collection. For example, I only want Feds cards while he was with the Wings... no Ducks, Jackets, or Capitals for me. I don't care if more Feds stuff is getting made... my goal is finite and I get a real sense of satisfaction of getting closer to it every time I make a trade or purchase. A couple of other options - 1.) collect a player or players, who are not all-stars, but for whatever reason are special to you. My brother collected Oleg Tverdovsky at one time; 2.) Switch to collecting minor league cards... they are just as difficult to find (if not more so) and there is usually just one team issue per year.

    Anyway, that's my take. Hopefully someone will find these suggestions helpful. Cheers!

  6. #36
    I don't think this thread should be singling out ITG. All card companies do this, and have been doing so for awhile now. Just take a look at what Brodeur autos sell for now versus 5 years ago. That has a lot to do with the flooding of the market by all companies.

  7. #37
    Panini- will actually kill the market if they are allowed this opportunity.... I knew this for certain when I saw an auto card with orr, gretzky, howe, roy etc etc and it was numbered to 50... with all sticker auto's..... mark my words, they will kill it if we are not careful.. value exists in cards because of supply/demand.... their goal seems to be steal as much business from UD as possible, their strategy is to flood the market.... very dangerous to the hobby!!!! they have some nice cards, but they also seem kind of "stickery" and cheap still... make only a few products, crown royal, and Prime... if you do that I got your back, otherwise I hope you go under for my own sake as a collector.

    Upperdeck- deserved someone like Panini to make a run at their market... but to be honest, they worked hard to take control of the dead hockey card market by forming a monopoly... and they brought value back to the hobby, thus giving me an opportunity to collect again (THANK YOU!!!) their quality is still unmatched i dont care what anyone says, ultimate, sp authentic, the cup.... and series 1 and 2.... Those are THE ONLY CARDS that people should by.... they are the nicest and if people stuck to only those products, they would become very sought after and valuable, and panini could disapear thus saving hockey card collectors. UD cards are the most beautiful of all cards.

    ITG - very cool to look at.... obviously they dont have the huge market so they have to produce lower print runs of cards.... they still want to produce a variety of products so they do... the result is the jersey non auto 1 of 1's and stuff like that... ITG should focus on making H&P because it WAS a sought after item at one point before too much attention was focused elsewhere, and superlative, One lower end entry product with some awesome rare and unique stuff (H and P) and one high end product (superlative) if they could focus on improving those sets marketing them I think that they would be better off... right now their stuff is so obscure and hard to price that i just avoid it all together, I do however like the company and a lot of the cards.
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  8. #38
    What this guy said!

    The thing that's weird, is that it's looking more and more like we're going to have another season of NO NHL hockey. But this time around, the card industry is doing far worse. Seriously, you think sales are anywhere close to where they were in 04-05? AND there isn't the Ovechkin/Crosby hype waiting for collectors when the lock-out is over.

    As bizarre as it sounds, I think ITG has the best chance to weather the storm since they've been producing unlicensed product for so long. And yes, it is next to impossible to buy ITG product in quantity out West even if you want it. Seriously. You have no idea how difficult it is to figure out where I can get a case of History of Hockey here in Vancouver. Guaranteed. Not, "I should have some stuff..."
    Quote Originally Posted by bdiam View Post
    At the end of the day, it all comes down to this:

    Panini - has no clue in what they are doing in the hockey card market. They simply copy the old Pacific handbook and occasionally go onto ebay, see what is selling and make cheaper "knock-offs" of the popular cards. Do they care that just like in the Pacific days, they are flooding/destroying the market - heck no. As long as people keep buying their product today.

    Upper Deck - they have become just like the Senator from your state, who has been in office for the last 30-years - entitled, lazy etc. Hockey card revenue makes-up such a small percentage of their total gross, that they don't really give two hoots about hockey collectors - would any other company in any other business, get away with such lousy customer service? They pump-out the same stuff every year, make good use of their deals with Crosby, Gretzky etc. and make the majority of the hockey card revenues, when they sell retail packs to the large chain stores. Then, once a year, they finish-up with The Cup and all is forgiven with collectors.

    ITG - they try, sometimes they even listen but in the end, they just can't put it all together. For all intensive purposes, their "market" is the province of Ontario and they seem fine in accepting that. Yes, I'm sure that many people will weigh-in and say they collect ITG and live elsewhere but I'm talking "big-picture" here - where the majority of their sales are. One of the best products in the past decade, was Bleu Blanc et Rouge and very few people in Qweebec would even touch it. A Montreal Canadiens "super high-end" product, that couldn't sell in Qweebec??? Unless you choose to bring in wax from the East, people in Western Canada can barely even get ITG product in quantity - if they wanted it. Same holds true for many states in the US.

    Does anybody else miss the good ol days when it was just OPC or Topps?

    Going forward;

    Panini appears to have no plan or clue on their evolution - probably just come out with even a more expensive product then Dominion next year.

    Upper Deck - won't even bother to look at things, until their bottom-line starts to drop. Then, they can "tease" collectors with a great product like they did with 04-05 Premier. This will shut collectors up for awhile and things will go back to business as normal.

    ITG - license or no license, they may have the best chance to "take the reigns" in the hobby and run with them. Unfortunately, there's been no indication that they "will" or even "can" take that next step. Heck, maybe they should try and get a copy of that old Pacific playbook themselves? At least everyone on the planet that wanted Pacific products, could get them.


    At the end of the day, as long as people keep spending the money that they are, why would the companies change?
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  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by kapital View Post
    Panini- will actually kill the market if they are allowed this opportunity.... I knew this for certain when I saw an auto card with orr, gretzky, howe, roy etc etc and it was numbered to 50... with all sticker auto's..... mark my words, they will kill it if we are not careful.
    You do realize that Orr and Gretzky are Upper Deck only, right?
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  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by kapital View Post
    Panini- will actually kill the market if they are allowed this opportunity.... I knew this for certain when I saw an auto card with orr, gretzky, howe, roy etc etc and it was numbered to 50... with all sticker auto's.....
    Show us, please, a single Panini autograph card with Bobby Orr or Wayne Gretzky on it.
    Show us, please, a single Panini autograph card with Gordie Howe on it that is a sticker auto #'d to 50.

    I can understand the frustrations that many people have with market saturation today. However, here are two facts you should let get in the way of your argument:
    1. Bobby Orr and Wayne Gretzky are exclusive to Upper Deck.
    2. Gordie Howe has appeared in only 4 Panini products with autographed content. In none of those 4 products is the print run on his autographed cards higher than 25, and that card is a hard-signed signature from 2011-12 Prime.

    Again, passions are high these days, and that's great. It reflects our level of commitment to the hobby and how much we want it to succeed. But let's not casually throw around things which are factually untrue.
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