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  1. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Wickabee View Post
    You're telling them what they're doing is treasonous.
    Treason: "Violation or betryal of the allegiance that a person owes his sovereign or his country."

    So, wanting to break apart the union and thus throw away your allegiance to the U.S is Not treason?

    If I have misunderstood something here, then I'll admit to it and say I'm wrong, but I believe that this definition which I have posted is correct and I believe that the act of secession is treason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wickabee View Post
    How they can possibly be within the law yet anti-constitutional is beyond me, perhaps you can explain that.
    I have tried my best to explain it, their current actions are not anti-constitutional (everyone has a right to make petitions, I get that) but they are WANTING to become anti-constitutional because they don't like our rules.

    It's like signing a petition saying that you no longer wish to abide by the rules, how are we on two different steps, it seems pretty clear to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wickabee View Post
    In the end, you're doing them a favour by opposing it so hard. You're turning a statement into a full fledged issue. Good work.
    The only thing I'm opposing is secession, if these people no longer wish to follow the rules, then please don't drag your states into the mud with you, you can do what Madman suggested......renounce your U.S citizenship, it's quite simple.
    Last edited by JustAlex; 11-16-2012 at 10:42 PM.
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  2. #112


    Wickabee's Avatar

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    You're taking it way to seriously and I still think you're wrong but whatever, man.

  3. #113
    Attempts at or aspirations of secession from the United States have been a feature of the country's politics since its birth. Some have argued for a constitutional right of secession and others for a natural right of revolution. The United States Supreme Court ruled unilateral secession unconstitutional while commenting that revolution or consent of the states could lead to a successful secession.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secessi..._United_States

    So the way the states are doing this is illegal. They can not petition the White House. They need to petition the other states or revolt. I do not think revolution will work so well.

    Although James Madison, the Father of the Constitution said this:

    In the public debate over the Nullification Crisis the separate issue of secession was also discussed. James Madison, often referred to as "The Father of the Constitution", spoke out against secession as a constitutional right.[32] In a March 15, 1833, letter to Daniel Webster congratulating him on a speech opposing nullification, Madison discussed "revolution" versus "secession":

    I return my thanks for the copy of your late very powerful Speech in the Senate of the United S. It crushes "nullification" and must hasten the abandonment of "Secession." But this dodges the blow by confounding the claim to secede at will, with the right of seceding from intolerable oppression. The former answers itself, being a violation, without cause, of a faith solemnly pledged. The latter is another name only for revolution, about which there is no theoretic controversy.

    I would think the majority in a state would have to prove intolerable oppression in a court. Madison, the master wordsmith, was vague, as usual. Love that man. My second favorite President.
    Last edited by drtom2005; 11-17-2012 at 12:18 AM.
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  4. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by drtom2005 View Post
    Attempts at or aspirations of secession from the United States have been a feature of the country's politics since its birth. Some have argued for a constitutional right of secession and others for a natural right of revolution. The United States Supreme Court ruled unilateral secession unconstitutional while commenting that revolution or consent of the states could lead to a successful secession.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secessi..._United_States
    Well, there it is!
    Last edited by JustAlex; 11-16-2012 at 11:20 PM.
    Logic and Reason is all you need.

  5. #115



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    I wonder if "intolerable oppression" would include jailing someone for making a video (in blatant violation of their first amendment rights) in order to blame them for a terrorist attack on an embassy before an important election? I wonder if the U.S. citizens that had their due process rights violated when they were killed by the drone sent by President Obama felt "intolerably oppressed"?

    I think that people should worry a lot less about some people signing petitions and focus on the corruption and constitutional violations happening with our elected politicians.

    The latest is that General Petraeus provided initial intelligence that the Benghazi attack was Al Qaeda related. The reference to Al Qaeda was stripped after reaching the White House and they sent Susan Rice out to peddle the youtube video caused the attack meme, which the White House continued to lie about for weeks. The Petraues revelation puts into question the latest statements the President has made about the White House simply passing on the best information provided by the CIA.
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  6. #116
    A side note on this topic
    Not sure how true it is but I read the 47 states now have petitions
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  7. #117
    wickipedia as a source!!!!

    in 1869 a supreme judge ruled on this on it seems to be the marker on all cases of secession.

    he United States Supreme Court ruled in Texas v. White, 74 U.S. 700 (1869) that unilateral secession was unconstitutional while commenting that revolution or consent of the states could lead to a successful secession.
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  8. #118


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    So in other words, petitioning and requesting secession was ruled constitutional?

  9. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by shrewsbury View Post
    wickipedia as a source!!!!

    in 1869 a supreme judge ruled on this on it seems to be the marker on all cases of secession.

    The wiki thing does not stand. You can look up where the information comes from and decide for yourself.
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  10. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Wickabee View Post
    So in other words, petitioning and requesting secession was ruled constitutional?
    Not decided. The way the petitoning would be done is to all of the other states and they would decide if the state could leave. It has not been tried, so I do not know if it is legal. The courts would have to decide.
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