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Thread: Christianity and our forefathers
11-21-2012, 02:38 PM #1
Christianity and our forefathers
I love when I here the USA was not founded on Christian principles, and the few sayings people take out of context to prove it.
But how do you explain these?
.“What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.”
“We recognize no Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus!” April 18, 1775
"Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry would break the strongest cords of our constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." 1798
"The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God." June 28, 1813
The Holy Ghost carries on the whole Christian system in this earth. Not a baptism, not a marriage, not a sacrament can be administered but by the Holy Ghost. . . . There is no authority, civil or religious – there can be no legitimate government but what is administered by this Holy Ghost. There can be no salvation without it. All without it is rebellion and perdition, or in more orthodox words damnation. December 21, 1809
John Q Adams
In the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior. The Declaration of Independence laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity.
“I have lived, sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that 'except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it.' I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel....Therefore, I beg leave to move that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations be held in this assembly every morning”
"In circumstances as dark as these, it becomes us, as Men and Christians, to reflect that whilst every prudent measure should be taken to ward off the impending judgments, …at the same time all confidence must be withheld from the means we use; and reposed only on that God rules in the armies of Heaven, and without His whole blessing, the best human counsels are but foolishness… Resolved; …Thursday the 11th of May…to humble themselves before God under the heavy judgments felt and feared, to confess the sins that have deserved them, to implore the Forgiveness of all our transgressions, and a spirit of repentance and reformation …and a Blessing on the … Union of the American Colonies in Defense of their Rights [for which hitherto we desire to thank Almighty God]…That the people of Great Britain and their rulers may have their eyes opened to discern the things that shall make for the peace of the nation…for the redress of America’s many grievances, the restoration of all her invaded liberties, and their security to the latest generations."
“It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.”
Almighty God, Who has given us this good land for our heritage; We humbly beseech Thee that we may always prove ourselves a people mindful of Thy favor and glad to do Thy will. Bless our land with honorable ministry, sound learning, and pure manners. Save us from violence, discord, and confusion, from pride and arrogance, and from every evil way. Defend our liberties, and fashion into one united people, the multitude brought hither out of many kindreds and tongues. Endow with Thy spirit of wisdom those whom in Thy name we entrust the authority of government, that there may be justice and peace at home, and that through obedience to Thy law, we may show forth Thy praise among the nations of the earth. In time of prosperity fill our hearts with thankfulness, and in the day of trouble, suffer not our trust in Thee to fail; all of which we ask through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.
11-21-2012, 03:07 PM #2
just an FYI.. those are cute quotes (and were used for propaganda at the time)... here are the true beliefs of the FF's...
Washington... thought that earthly religions were stupid and believed in life beyond earth
Jefferson... called religion the most cumbersome thing man ever created in his private writing never meant to be seen (something I quote in my personal life)
Franklin... like washington believed in Aliens more than Jesus
etc etc.. I could go on and on with this but to sum it up they weren't members of the Christian Church.. they were members of the Free Mason society. They pretended to believe in faith publicly, while privately thinking (and a belief I share) that religion is for loons.
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11-21-2012, 03:28 PM #3
Jay, I hope you are wrong. It would be kind of pathetic for a nation to be founded on a myth.I am always looking for Habs cards seq #'d 24/xx
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11-21-2012, 03:45 PM #4
There's a huge difference between "this country was founded on Christian principles" and " this is a Christian country" so I really don't see a point to this end of the argument.
11-21-2012, 05:45 PM #5
wickabee, i agree the US is not a Christian country but it was founded upon Christian principles, my argument is against those that say it was not founded by Christians on Christian ideas.
I am sure when we confronted the King and told him Jesus was are only king is was just propaganda, point me in the direction of these of where Washington wrote himself or any of these guys, during the time we were founded.
certainly people change their minds over time, but this would be after our founding, there is no way to debate the USA was founded by Christians on Christian ideas. whatever someone said later, was said later, not then.
to the rest, lets see the quotes, I have plenty more by these guys and others.
what some scholar says is true, is often based on their ideas, you can guess all you want, but the truth is in the words of the men themselves.
11-21-2012, 06:06 PM #6
If this doesn't end in America being a Christian country what's the point? The people who go against what you are saying are doing so because they often hear,"America was founded on Christian principles and there for is a Christian country and should be governed as such." I'm not disagreeing with you, but if that's your only point, it's not worth bothering.
11-21-2012, 06:40 PM #7
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11-21-2012, 07:03 PM #8
I read the site and it has some fair arguments, but you cannot say that the founders were not Christians and Christianity did not play a role in their decisions.
now the fact they were smart enough to recognize other religions is a good thing, but it does not mean there were not Christians. i can show you personal writings from nearly all the signers that show they were Christians and it impacted their daily life.
I could care less about it myself, but the fact remains people love to try and rewrite history based on their personal ideas, ut facts remain facts and nobody was there but them, the only thing to go on is what they wrote.
11-21-2012, 07:35 PM #9
I don't care about it either, Jay. That's why I didn't start a thread about it...
11-21-2012, 10:12 PM #10
wickabee, didn't think you would
habs, unsure of how to respond