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Thread: ITG overdoing it
11-12-2012, 04:46 PM #1
ITG overdoing it
Before I start I have big collections with ITG and have enjoyed the product over the years, and do not hide from the product because of a silly license agreement. Bottom line its a nice option
After the last several years of collecting, getting tired of looking at the same one color blue or white, postage sized swatches of my idol Mike Bossy on multi player cards from ITG. How many times will we see International Showdowns, Famous Lines, Rivals, Stanley Cup battles, Decades, Quads, Combos and Linemates ... .Really wonder how valuable these will be in 10 years since they are being overdone ?
ITG Mike Bossy Memorablia cards = 385
Of the 385 - 170 (1/1's) = 215 cards
From 2000-2007 ITG had 130 Bossy cards (excluding the 1/1 versions). Only Nine of these autographed
But after one year of absence 08-09 no Bossys.
In just the past two years the market is flooded with another 85 cards (excluding the 1/1s) and only 3 of them autographed. (Decades Trophy winner Black and Silver, plus Lord Stanley's Mug).
So what about a few other retirees.
Greztky Mem totals = 224 (67 1/1's)
Kurri Mem totals = 302 (122 1/1's)
Potvin Mem totals 264 (113 1/1's)
LaFleur Mem totals 611 (240 1/1's)
Robinson Mem totals 342 (139 1/1's)
Dionne Mem totals 428 (174 1/1's)
So I guess our 1970 and 1980 stars are all being done without prejudice, just find the past two years the numbers have been overwhelming. I don't mind the autos but the swatches the size of a fingernail, have been there done that.
11-12-2012, 05:37 PM #2
If 85 cards in two years is considered "flooding" these days, what do we call what happens with John Tavares? He's up to 71 cards in 2012-13 products after only 6 releases. He's been in the NHL for 3 seasons and is already approaching 1,500 cards. Scope and scale, I guess.
People aren't obligated to collect everything that is released. If a particular postage stamp-sized piece of laundered hockey sweater doesn't appeal to you, let it go. Or buy it cheap and sell it to bossy'scards. I hear he has some sort of connection.
The approach from the card companies these days seems to be to allow anybody that wants to own a particular something of a given player, they will find a way to make that happen. We saw Bobby Orr hard-signed autographs listed as a Group D insertion ratio into Ultimate Collection last year. There are Gordie Howe autographs inserted into a product that costs a dollar per pack. Other example abound.
Relevant to your concern, you have to take a look at what other players in that organization, past or present, are marketable in the hobby. Bossy is part of a very elite group of players to have scored 50 goals in 50 games. He was central to the dynasty of the Islanders. If it comes down to a question of which 3-4 players from this team are going to be added to a product, are they going to go with Bossy or are they going to go with Rick DiPietro? Bossy or Eric Boulton? Bossy or Lubomir Visnovsky? Sometimes an organization reaches such an ebb that the only way to find any sense of value is to reach into the past. Beyond Tavares, there's nobody on that roster today that people will buy wax in the hopes of pulling an Islanders card. So it's going to be a steady diet of those legends.
11-12-2012, 06:00 PM #3
Yes completely understand the flooding of cards, I guess what I was getting at is comparing cards as you mentioned Tavares after the mase numbers of base which I would not compare to the ITGsmentioned above, it's the parallels, the autos, and the letters.
What I am seeing at ITG for Bossy, is the same 1 inch square cloth, over and over. Sometimes alone but many times with multiple players and rarely an autograph.
11-12-2012, 06:14 PM #4
I personally feel that everyone is overdoing it...just in various ways, and its hit or miss...people make similar knocks against panini about the amount of parallels they add in their products that make too many cards for player collectors, or upper deck about just making the same thing over and over again, and thus making too many cards that are similar...i think its all about your tolerance for the issue(s), I don't really have that issue really, so maybe I'm just not as opinionated...my hockey collection has taken a back seat to golf this year with the lock out an all
11-12-2012, 06:42 PM #5
The bottom-line, is that the card companies have simply run out of ideas. Heck, Panini hasn't had one original thought of their own, since they've entered the hockey card market. They've either re-cycled all the ideas from the old Pacific "folder" or simply copy ideas from other companies. You don't have to worry about the prices of your cards ten-years from now, more like 1-2 years. Have you seen the prices of some of the biggest dollar cards in the hobby the past 5-years (ie) shields, Property Of's etc.? Panini has mass-produced cheaper versions of these cards and destroyed the market - just like Pacific did back in the day. Isn't it funny, how history always repeats itself?Personally, I'm waiting for someone to make "another" 1972 set.
11-12-2012, 08:49 PM #6
Bossy's cards have really dropped overall.
Within the last 6 months I have picked up a copy of both his OPC and Topps Rookies for peanuts. New collectors don't know who Bossy is, and they obviously don't care, which is unfortunate.
11-13-2012, 01:51 AM #7
EVERYONE is over-doing it, we've all been saying that forever. But that's where personal choices factor in. I have two and three-inch binders full of Joe Sakic, Patrick Roy, Paul Kariya, Dominek Hasek, Stevie Y, Cujo, Marty, Wayne, Mario & Brett, but I seriously doubt I own 10% of their full inventory. But that's ok, I have one or two realllllly nice pieces of each plus a bunch of filler. If something extra-pretty pops up, I try to add it. To be a SuperCollector of any of those guys tho? IMO that's just folly. Malarky! Shenanigans!!
I was 13 when the Isles won their first cup, Mike Bossy And Billy Smith were AMAZING. I clipped out the order form from The Hockey News and sent a money order for the 1982 Yearbook. I knew the Isles players better than my Canucks.
My Bossy PC is 58 cards, including this one................
And these 2 photos I took myself :)
Now see, because I'm not a player collector per se, I don't have to deal with the same teeny-tiny swatches of the same player with the same design on the same card over and over and over, instead I get to appreciate ITG for stuff like this..............
And Panini for this..................
And Upper Deck for this....................
At any given minute, there's 700+ things wrong with this hobby, and I've done my share of griping about a few of them. But there's also three or four things that are so cool that you just can't stop yourself from grinning like an idiot at the little piece of cardboard in your hand and just like that you're 11 years old again.
EVERYONE should drink and type!! Use SpellChecker tho.
11-13-2012, 09:09 AM #8
DeanCrandall.. I truly hear you.
After the last two ITG sets, Rivals and Superlative, I'm afraid that this is a dead end. These two sets include about 50 very low numbered Gilmour cards + all Rivals / Superlative expo cards (twenty?) Even those expos sell at pretty high price. I've collected since 90's and came back 2006. I've done SO much work and spend money for this collection, we a talking about tens of thousands of dollars, let say 35 000$ - 45000 is pretty close.
You say ITG has done 385 Bossy's cards which include 170 1/1 cards. That's ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous.
I don't know where I found roughly 2000 dollars that I can buy all the new Gilmour stuff. Another Finnish high end Gilmour collector agree this rant, and he is chosen the break. But how the break can help you?
I'm sorry but I can't cheer with all of you ITG fans how great 'bang for a buck' are these new products.
11-13-2012, 11:03 AM #9
You don't HAVE to get every single card out there. Chase after the 3 auto cards then. Another thing is, those cards by ITG are generally under a print run of 60, so there may be a lot of different sets, but in terms of pure volume there is a lot less. If you are bored of those mem pieces, don't get them all. It's as simple as that. If you have to have every single one, be lucky you aren't a modern day PC collector with the likes of Tavares. Tavares alone had 20 memorabilia or auto cards in Artifacts. 3 are 1/1s, 1 /2, 1 /3. 20 Mem pieces. He has another 5 in Certified, 1 being a 1/1. He's at 25 Mem or Auto cards in 2 releases. Just wait until SPGU, Titanium, SPx, SPA, Limited, etc. He's guaranteed to have mem/autos in those as well, and never mind ITG products. I think they would be MORE than happy with 43 mem cards a year.
Every company is overdoing it on the big name players simply because it's what has the most collectors, and what has the most resale and attraction to products. Would you rather pull a Bossy mem or a John Tolleni? Most people would say Bossy, so most companies will put in Bossy cards.
HOWEVER... Some players who are pretty good do not get enough hobby love. Dan Boyle comes to mind. Elias seems to be another to me, as well as James Neal. It's tough to choose a checklist, especially with what ITG does. They focus on vintage, and lately have been doing sets like Decades that honour the best players of that era which Bossy was.
That being said, I'd gladly take 85 mem/auto cards between last year and this year for OEL in total. I could at least pick and choose which ones I like and don't like. Even the amplitude of 1/1s. So, swap out the Bossy for OEL and the problem is solved
11-13-2012, 11:09 AM #10
They may be over doing it..... just as Upper Deck and Panini may be over doing it..... but they're just doing what any smart business would do. They create a product that people want to buy, and they sell it to us.
I got through the same thing with Ranford.... though I'll admit, not near the volumn you describe. Ranford had 71 new cards last year...that's from all three manufacturers combined..... 33 of them were numbered to 25 copies, or fewer. 7 of those were 1/1s - cards that I will likely never see surface.
I just don't see why I should complain about ITG / UD / Panini making "too many" cards. Why wouldn't I enjoy the ones I've got, and enjoy the chase of the ones I don't ??
Are there too many GU / Auto / Low #ed cards on the market? I suppose that depends on your perspective. The volumn of them is almost certainly driving down any long term value that 'investors' think they have (or 'crazy people', as I would call them - as expecting much in the way of a $$$ return from hockey cards is pretty crazy). It makes master set building something that can't be done. It make player collecting impossible. But it also adds a ton of value (at least perceived value) to the consumer - to the ones busting the product.