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  1. #71



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    Quote Originally Posted by JustAlex View Post
    Define this "Spiritual world" you speak of....hell, for that matter, define the word "spiritual".

    I'm not mocking you, the reason I ask this is because if you go down the list, you will notice that many people have vastly different definitions to these two concepts.

    Some people believe the "Spiritual world" is where ghosts and demons and angels dwell.

    Others believe the "spiritual world" is heaven and hell.

    Others believe that this is the realm of monsters from literature such as witches, vampires, etc.

    Others believe it's Nirvana.....and I can keep going.



    Who told you that?

    I haven't read anything about scientists wanting to prove something comes from nothing.

    Their response today is the same it's always been......"We don't know".

    And I like that response a lot more than....."I know exactly how the Universe started, and I know exactly what will happen when you die, but I have zero evidence to prove this assertion."


    You clearly don't understand the big bang theory, cosmology, abiogenesis, or evolution.

    You just clumped them all together in an attempt to make it sound ridiculous.

    In other words, you created a strawman.

    Furthermore, it is "god" who does "magic".....he supposedly created EVERYTHING in existence out of nothing, and supposedly no one created him and he exists outside of the logic, space and time.

    Science is looking for answers, they may never get these answers, but that doesn't mean we insert "god" in the gaps.

    Why not look back in history, when everything was attributed to god, until science was able to correct their mistakes:

    Why does it rain? ("god" is sad)

    Where does a rainbow come from? ("god" did it)

    Why do people become sick? ("god" or the "devil" has placed a curse on you)

    Why don't we float into space? ("god" is keeping us down here)

    All of these questions were previously unknown and attributed to a god.....religions didn't care if they were right or wrong.

    Science DID care, and now we understand why it rains, why we don't float into space, and how diseases work.


    Faith: belief that is not based on proof.

    You believe in a god despite the zero evidence that is available for him.....hence you have faith in god.

    I don't believe in god because there is no proof.....I don't have faith in him, and my position is relied on evidence....which basically means that it CAN change.

    But somehow we are equal in terms of faith?

    You do see the inconsistency here, right?
    You have no proof for how the world came into existence and how humans came to exist. You have faith that there is a scientific explanation.

    ("Faith: belief that is not based on proof.")
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  2. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by tpeichel View Post
    You have no proof for how the world came into existence and how humans came to exist. You have faith that there is a scientific explanation.

    ("Faith: belief that is not based on proof.")
    We didn't have proof for what lightning was but that doesn't mean "God is angry".

    Inserting god into every unknown is unnecessary.

    Unknowns are just that.....Unknowns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wickabee View Post
    Supreme being. Creator and Ruler of all things.

    Try again.

    and any characteristics you give aliens is nothing more than speculation. Kind of like giving God characteristics...
    The characteristics I'm giving alien life is the same I would give for life which we have here on earth....these characteristics are based on something which is testable and demonstrable.

    How can you test "magic" when there is no examples of magic.
    Last edited by JustAlex; 12-10-2012 at 03:53 PM.
    "The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness..."

    -Albert Einstein

  3. #73


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    Quote Originally Posted by JustAlex View Post
    We didn't have proof for what lightning was but that doesn't mean "God is angry".

    Inserting god into every unknown is unnecessary.

    Unknowns are just that.....Unknowns.


    The characteristics I'm giving alien life is the same I would give for life which we have here on earth....these characteristics are based on something which is testable and demonstrable.

    How can you test "magic" when there is no examples of magic.
    How is attaching the characteristic of earthlings to unproven aliens not speculation? It's entirely speculation until you can prove you're right.

    That's the problem with scinece. Imagine a theory, then prove it or lie trying.

  4. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Wickabee View Post
    How is attaching the characteristic of earthlings to unproven aliens not speculation? It's entirely speculation until you can prove you're right.

    That's the problem with scinece. Imagine a theory, then prove it or lie trying.
    OK, hold on.... are you saying that science is lying about it's theories?

    Science doesn't imagine theories out of thin air....they are the conclusion of many tests and observations.

    Being a scientific theory is the highest an idea can attain, the only thing higher would be mathematical fact.

    BTW, you do know that gravity is still a theory, right?

    Do you question this theory?

    Also, a theory is not something that is taken lightly.

    Someone doesn't just say......"hey, I did some tests and I concluded that "X" is the reason for "Y".....so let's make it into a theory"

    No, it doesn't work that way....that conclusion is subject to a lot of scrutiny and it is peer reviewed by many other scientists in the community.

    It takes a very long time before an idea becomes a theory.
    "The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness..."

    -Albert Einstein

  5. #75



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    Quote Originally Posted by JustAlex View Post
    We didn't have proof for what lightning was but that doesn't mean "God is angry".

    Inserting god into every unknown is unnecessary.
    You are correct, but since it is unknown, having God as the answer cannot be dismissed as well. So I'll return to my original statement that it takes the same amount of faith to not believe in God as to believe in God.

    I'm certainly open to the belief that there is no God, but unlike you, I believe the Bible stands up quite well as a historical document and provides very strong evidence for God's existence.
    Buying "Broder" unlicensed sets and singles.

  6. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by tpeichel View Post
    You are correct, but since it is unknown, having God as the answer cannot be dismissed as well.
    By that type of logic neither is dismissing fairies and leprechauns as the cause for the unknowns.

    I'm not trying to offend, but that's what it sounds to me...."god" is just like any other figure which has no evidence for and thus there is no distinction in my mind for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by tpeichel View Post
    So I'll return to my original statement that it takes the same amount of faith to not believe in God as to believe in God.
    What you're saying has been said by theists on countless occasions.

    Here is my response:

    "The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness..."

    -Albert Einstein

  7. #77


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    Alex:
    1: I am saying the process involves people admitting they were wrong. Not many people like doing that and will go to great lengths to avoid doing it.

    And I swear, if you tell me what a theory is one more time I'm gonna find you and leave dog poop on your lawn.
    You do know that repeating yourself 1000x to the same person is unnecessary, useless and, above all, annoying, right?

    2: Your rambling about theories did nothing to say you're not speculating. You probably avoided it because you know you are speculating.

  8. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Wickabee View Post
    Alex:
    1: I am saying the process involves people admitting they were wrong. Not many people like doing that and will go to great lengths to avoid doing it.

    And I swear, if you tell me what a theory is one more time I'm gonna find you and leave dog poop on your lawn.
    You do know that repeating yourself 1000x to the same person is unnecessary, useless and, above all, annoying, right?

    2: Your rambling about theories did nothing to say you're not speculating. You probably avoided it because you know you are speculating.
    Ok...

    1. Sure, I'll agree that people don't like to admit they're wrong. However, science eventually discovers bad science.

    For example, the flat earth model, the geocentric model, and several false transitional fossils are occasions where science has rectified bad science.

    That's the beauty of it.....science is ever changing, if new evidence comes in, it has no option but to change, this is where it differs from the religious dogmatic principle where ideas never change, no matter how much evidence it's up against!

    2. Fine, I have no reason to avoid it.....I am speculating or better yet, I'm assuming that alien life would have the same or similar characteristics of life on earth. This assumption is based on evidence I already have.

    I can't give god any characteristics because I don't have any examples for magic....it's just that simple.
    "The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness..."

    -Albert Einstein

  9. #79



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    Quote Originally Posted by JustAlex View Post
    By that type of logic neither is dismissing fairies and leprechauns as the cause for the unknowns.

    I'm not trying to offend, but that's what it sounds to me...."god" is just like any other figure which has no evidence for and thus there is no distinction in my mind for it.


    What you're saying has been said by theists on countless occasions.

    Here is my response:

    The video does nothing to dispel my statement that atheists have no evidence for the creation of the world or of humans, so they have FAITH that there is a scientific explanation and not a supernatural one.
    Buying "Broder" unlicensed sets and singles.

  10. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by tpeichel View Post
    The video does nothing to dispel my statement that atheists have no evidence for the creation of the world or of humans, so they have FAITH that there is a scientific explanation and not a supernatural one.
    Ok, I guess I have to spell it out....

    #1 Do you believe in Bigfoot or Leprechauns? (I"ll assume you don't)

    #2 Why don't you believe in Bigfoot or Leprchauns?

    #3 So by your original logic, it takes equal amount of faith to not believe in bigfoot than it does TO believe in bigfoot.

    You don't see a problem with this?

    Does it also take the same amount of faith not to believe Elvis is alive as it is to believe that Elvis IS Alive?

    C'mon, this isn't even a hard one.
    "The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness..."

    -Albert Einstein

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