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  1. #1

    Why do Americans frown upon Socialism so much?

    I really believe that the current Capitalist state that we are in can not sustain itself forever and one day things will have to drastically change.

    Is Socialism really that bad?

    Do people really think it's all about wealth distribution?

    There are plenty of positives towards socialism.

    And I don't think anyone would advocate for "pure socialism" but more of a mixture between capitalism AND socialism.....I still believe Canada and certain parts of Europe such as the UK, Germany, France and the Scandinavian countries are great examples of this.


    Is it crazy to believe that every citizen should have a RIGHT (not a privilege) to health care from the day they are born to the day they die?

    Isn't the #1 job of government to provide for it's citizens?
    Last edited by JustAlex; 12-05-2012 at 10:00 PM.
    "Islam is the mother load of bad ideas" -Sam Harris

    "Christianity is a close second" -Me

  2. #2
    europe and socialism? perhaps you should read this

    http://www.indexmundi.com/france/economy_profile.html
    http://www.indexmundi.com/germany/economy_profile.html


    when I think of socialism I think of Lenin and of public not private ownership of property, land, and natural resources, publicaly would be government control.
    within 4 years of Lenin and socialism cut down their economy by 15% and had to come up with a new plan.

    I do think that there should be health care from birth to death, but if you can pay for it on your own, you should. if you cannot pay for it on your own, you should have to contribute back some way, barring those who are truly unable to.
    Jay Shrewsbury
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  3. #3


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    What is socialism and what is communism to you?
    Patiently waiting for someone to bring back sax solos and keytars non ironically.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by shrewsbury View Post
    Shrew, both France and Germany are still much more socialized than America, and I'm NOT advocating for "pure socialism".

    Quote Originally Posted by shrewsbury View Post
    when I think of socialism I think of Lenin and of public not private ownership of property, land, and natural resources, publicaly would be government control.
    within 4 years of Lenin and socialism cut down their economy by 15% and had to come up with a new plan.
    Yes, I know that you and probably the majority of Americans think of the extreme negative examples of socialism.



    I can easily look at Capitalist America and see it as an unmitigated failure...

    Despite being the #1 Economy in the world, the U.S is:

    #37 in Health Care.....almost every country in Europe is ahead of the U.S where they have socialized medicine and they also spend LESS than the U.S on Health Care.

    Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_H...health_systems


    The Wealth gap in the U.S continues to make the Rich richer and the poor poorer:



    Yeah....if you're rich, the U.S is the perfect country for you.
    "Islam is the mother load of bad ideas" -Sam Harris

    "Christianity is a close second" -Me

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Wickabee View Post
    What is socialism and what is communism to you?
    I follow the textbook definitions of these words.....but it doesn't mean I want "pure socialism" in the U.S.

    I just want a little more of it and a little less capitalism.

    The income inequality in the U.S grows wider and wider, and the solution is not to screw over the poor and let the rich continue to dominate.
    "Islam is the mother load of bad ideas" -Sam Harris

    "Christianity is a close second" -Me

  6. #6
    I have no issues with the income inequality in this country, my wife and I work hard to have a good life-style for ourselves. IMO, a majority of the poor has brought this on themselves. If the government continues to give you free handouts you have no reason to try and make a better life of yourself.

  7. #7
    alex, no one distributes wealth, we earn it in most cases. sure there are families that have money that has been handed down for generations, but someone earned it to start with.
    and i would argue about health care, now many people travel to europe when they need an operation?
    Jay Shrewsbury
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by shrewsbury View Post
    and i would argue about health care, now many people travel to europe when they need an operation?
    Why would anyone do that?

    Here's a misconception that SOME GOP members did.

    The U.S DOES NOT have the best Health Care system in the world.....not even close.

    HOWEVER, if you are rich, then the U.S health care system IS the best, if you're a regular person, then you have to "pray" that nothing serious ever happens to you (at least until you're very old).

    Quote Originally Posted by bouncer View Post
    I have no issues with the income inequality in this country, my wife and I work hard to have a good life-style for ourselves.IMO, a majority of the poor has brought this on themselves. If the government continues to give you free handouts you have no reason to try and make a better life of yourself.
    I'm sorry but you are 100% incorrect.....

    First of all, the government doesn't give "free handouts" they have social programs which people are ENTITLED to (that's why they are called entitlements) and help you in a very bad situation.

    For example if you are suddenly unemployed, the government helps you by giving you unemployment benefits (FOR A SHORT PERIOD) until you can find another job.

    These "benefits" are a fraction of what you used to earn at whatever your job used to be.


    Welfare and Food Stamps are similar, they are programs meant to get you "Back on your feet" while you're experiencing a hard time in your life.

    They are a small safety net to help your fall, instead of crashing to the ground.

    ****BTW, I must stress, that a LOT of people don't even qualify for these programs!****

    I seriously do not know how you can say that social programs can help people make a "better life for themselves" when the primary purpose of them is to provide a small help. It's like getting a deep cut and treating it with a BAND-AID.....sure, you'll stop the bleeding but the wound is not going to close immediately and if untreated it can get infected, the band-aid does nothing to help this out.


    Secondly, most poor people work as hard if not HARDER than rich people.

    Does anyone here really want to make a case that a poor man or woman working two jobs (Making minimum wage) while probably having to support kids isn't working "Hard enough"?


    What's the solution.....to become labor slaves and work 60+ hours a week just to be "above water"?

    Nowadays, graduating from college doesn't cut it out either.

    You have MILLIONS of college graduates (many of whom have debt) working minimum wage jobs....
    Last edited by JustAlex; 12-06-2012 at 11:08 AM.
    "Islam is the mother load of bad ideas" -Sam Harris

    "Christianity is a close second" -Me

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by JustAlex View Post
    Shrew, both France and Germany are still much more socialized than America, and I'm NOT advocating for "pure socialism".
    I wouldn't exactly call France a shining example of the success of socialism. Yes, they have a great health care system, but that can't be sustained for much longer. They have tremendous economic woes that are compounded by the fact that they keep taxing the rich more and more which is resulting in an exodus of the rich from France. In a matter of time their population will be almost entirely lower and middle class and with no significant tax base. Social entitlement programs don't run on air. With nobody to tax there will be no tax revenue and thus, no health care system.

    But for arguments sake, let's look at a little side-by-sde comparison at how the socialist-based taxation system is working out for France as compared to the US.

    France - revenue as a result of taxation - 49.2% of GDP
    US - revenue as a result of taxation - 15% of GDP

    So France is taxing it's citizens at a rate more than 3 times that of the US. So obviously their government is running in a surplus, right?

    France - Public debt 85% of GDP - Bugdet surplus or deficit -5.8%
    US - Public debt 69.4% of GDP - Budget surplus or defecit -8.9%

    So France taxes it's citizens at a rate 3x that of the US and still has a higher public debt and runs at a defecit that is nearly that of the US. I am not impressed with their form of socialism at all.

    OK, well then clearly France's taxation policies are resulting in much fewer poor people, right?

    US percentage of population living below poverty line - 15.1%
    France percentage of population living below poverty line - 13.4%

    Hmmm...so France taxes at a rate more than 3 times the US and they have a higher public debt, comparable deficit rate and only a slightly lower percentage of people in poverty. I fail to see how socialism is benefitting them.


    Quote Originally Posted by JustAlex View Post
    I can easily look at Capitalist America and see it as an unmitigated failure...

    Despite being the #1 Economy in the world,
    Wait, wait...let me see if I get this...captialism is an obvious failure because the US economy is #1...um, do you understand economics at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by JustAlex View Post
    the U.S is:

    #37 in Health Care.....almost every country in Europe is ahead of the U.S where they have socialized medicine and they also spend LESS than the U.S on Health Care.

    Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_H...health_systems
    Ah, now I see! You have gotten the impression that it is the responsibility of the economy to provide for the people who are not involved in the economy.


    Quote Originally Posted by JustAlex View Post
    The Wealth gap in the U.S continues to make the Rich richer and the poor poorer:

    So is this about health care or wealth gap or socialism?

    And for point of reference, the wealth gap in your favorite country is not faring so well either.
    http://www.connexionfrance.com/wealt...w-article.html

    Quote Originally Posted by bouncer View Post
    I have no issues with the income inequality in this country, my wife and I work hard to have a good life-style for ourselves. IMO, a majority of the poor has brought this on themselves. If the government continues to give you free handouts you have no reason to try and make a better life of yourself.
    While I don't entirely agree that the majority of the poor have brought it on themselves, (some are children in poor homes, some have health issues, some lack the education) I do agree that most of the people who are on social welfare programs are not motivated to succeed as long as the government continues to provide life basics for them.
    Last edited by duane1969; 12-06-2012 at 11:40 AM.

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  10. #10

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