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  1. #31


    Wickabee's Avatar

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    Beckett (66)

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    Quote Originally Posted by shrewsbury View Post
    Ohio is one and is where I lived. I have never had a job that has tried to rip me off, but maybe I am lucky, but I assume it is because I am a great employee to have.

    Not all people in unions are lazy, but when unions came to AT&T, I noticed the people who fought for it were the ones I would never let be my employee, and when meeting with the union they had nothing to offer me I couldn't do on my own, so when they were voted in, I left shortly afterwards. And it was one of the best moves I have ever made.
    Jay, you were very lucky. I live in a Province basically owned by 2-3 unions and I was treated like garbage, deliberately held back, put in danger, told to work through a bout of Spanish Influenza and a fractured foot and lied lied lied to constantly.

    So yes, you were quite lucky.
    Last edited by Wickabee; 12-12-2012 at 12:51 PM.

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  3. #32
    im union man and for a long time too
    being a union man has its pro's & con's there is some lazy workers and theres a lot of good one as well
    what to say about whats goin on i cant i just hope they work it out
    your kidds dont care if your union or not they just want to eat
    THAT ALL I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT >..BEE
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  4. #33



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    Quote Originally Posted by Wickabee View Post
    That's not what this is, though. It's being sold as freedom when, long term it's giving the souls and hearts of workers toamagement to do with what they wish. This is not to break a monopoly, it's to break unions altogether and, if it is successful as designed, American workers will be subject to Chinese conditions and management.

    USA: We're China junior now!
    Workers can still unionize if they want. They simply will no longer be able to force non-members to pay dues. Saying that right to work laws will take us on the road to China is a little much.
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  5. #34


    Wickabee's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by tpeichel View Post
    Workers can still unionize if they want. They simply will no longer be able to force non-members to pay dues. Saying that right to work laws will take us on the road to China is a little much.
    Not really when you add in human nature. Do you think bosses/managers/owners aren't going to tell new employees of all the "evils" of unions and that all they do is take your money. If we're talking less educated labour, it will be very easy to convince them not to join the union and save the dues. Meanwhile those workers will be denied all kinds of benefits, wage increases, safety standards, etc, etc. You think it's farfetched to say it's a step towards becoming China? These unions were once desperately needed due to owner greed and abuse of workers. To say that business owners would never do today what they've done in the past if you let them is naive at best and an outright lie at worst.
    They've already proven they don't mind abusing employees and don't care for human rights by producing everything in China where they legally can. To trust that they wouldn't treat Americans the same makes no sense.

  6. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by tpeichel View Post
    Workers can still unionize if they want. They simply will no longer be able to force non-members to pay dues. Saying that right to work laws will take us on the road to China is a little much.
    Non unionized jobs were employers can do whatever the hell they like to their employees are closer to the Chinese than unionized jobs are. You conservatives are a mess. You want to work us like slaves, moan and cry about having to offer the workers who help make your rich health care then want to be able to toss your workers to the side when they are no longer needed. Wow.
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  7. #36



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    Quote Originally Posted by Wickabee View Post
    Not really when you add in human nature. Do you think bosses/managers/owners aren't going to tell new employees of all the "evils" of unions and that all they do is take your money. If we're talking less educated labour, it will be very easy to convince them not to join the union and save the dues. Meanwhile those workers will be denied all kinds of benefits, wage increases, safety standards, etc, etc. You think it's farfetched to say it's a step towards becoming China? These unions were once desperately needed due to owner greed and abuse of workers. To say that business owners would never do today what they've done in the past if you let them is naive at best and an outright lie at worst.
    They've already proven they don't mind abusing employees and don't care for human rights by producing everything in China where they legally can. To trust that they wouldn't treat Americans the same makes no sense.
    We have plenty of laws that protects workers. A quick search turned up these:

    • A right to a workplace that is “free from recognized hazards that are causing or are likely to cause death or serious physical harm.”
    Occupational Safety and Health Act of 1970, § 5(a), 29 USC § 654(a)(1).
    • A right not to be discriminated against based on “race, color, religion, sex, or national origin.”
    Title VII or the Civil Rights Act of 1964, 42 USC § 2000e–2(a)(1).
    • A right not to be discriminated against based on age, i.e. 40-70 years inclusive.
    Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967, 29 USC §§ 624(a)(1)(A), 631(a).
    • A right to reasonable accommodations for their disability.
    Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990, Title I, 42 U.S.C. §§ 12101-12117, 12201-12213, et seq.
    • A right to “self-organization, to form, join, or assist labor organizations, to bargain collectively through representatives of their own choosing, and to engage in other concerted activities for the purpose of collective bargaining or other mutual aid or protection.”
    National Labor Relations Act, 29 USC § 157
    • A right not to be retaliated against for reporting unsafe working conditions.
    Occupational Safety and Health Act of 1970, § 11(c), 29 USC § 660(c).
    • A right not to be retaliated against for investigating government contract fraud or taking action under the False Claims Act.
    Federal False Claims Act, 31 U.S.C. § 3730(h).
    • A right to report corporate and securities fraud to regulatory bodies.
    Sarbanes-Oxley Act of 2002, 18 U.S.C. § 1514A.
    • A right to expect that trustees of employee health and welfare plans act in the “sole” interest of plan participants.
    Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974, 29 USC § 1104(a)(1).
    • A right to be paid at a rate of time and one-half for all work performed over 40 hours in one work week if an employee is “non exempt.” The exemption is determined by the type of work performed and not by the label the employer gives the employee.
    Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938, 29 USC § 207(a).
    • A right to at least 60 days advance notice for mass layoffs or plant closings where the employer with 100 or more employees engages in a plant closing of 50 or more employees at a work site, or a mass layoff of at least 500 employees (or at least 50 employees, if that is one-third or more of the total). Workers are entitled to pay and all benefits through the 60 day advanced layoff notice period, whether or not an employer requires employees to work through it.
    Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification Act (Pub. L. 100-379), 29 USC §§ 2101(a), 2102(a).
    • A right to take up to 12 weeks off to care for a newborn, or themselves or a family member with a serious health condition where the employer has 50 or more employees. Workers may take off up to 26 weeks off to care for an injured member of the Armed Forces.
    Family and Medical Leave Act of 1993, § 102(a)(1), 29 USC § 2612(a)(1), as amended by the National Defense Authorization Act for FY 2008 (Pub. L. 110-181), § 585.
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  8. #37


    AUTaxMan's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wickabee View Post
    Not really when you add in human nature. Do you think bosses/managers/owners aren't going to tell new employees of all the "evils" of unions and that all they do is take your money. If we're talking less educated labour, it will be very easy to convince them not to join the union and save the dues. Meanwhile those workers will be denied all kinds of benefits, wage increases, safety standards, etc, etc. You think it's farfetched to say it's a step towards becoming China? These unions were once desperately needed due to owner greed and abuse of workers. To say that business owners would never do today what they've done in the past if you let them is naive at best and an outright lie at worst.
    They've already proven they don't mind abusing employees and don't care for human rights by producing everything in China where they legally can. To trust that they wouldn't treat Americans the same makes no sense.
    We now have federal laws that prevent abuse of employees in terms of working age, conditions, hours, etc. So what is the purpose of unions again, other than to ensure that people are paid MORE than they are worth in the free market?
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  9. #38


    Wickabee's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by AUTaxMan View Post
    We now have federal laws that prevent abuse of employees in terms of working age, conditions, hours, etc. So what is the purpose of unions again, other than to ensure that people are paid MORE than they are worth in the free market?
    They were necessary once. Take them out and lobbyists & stubbornness get those laws relaxed and changed and they'll be necessary again.

  10. #39


    Wickabee's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by tpeichel View Post
    We have plenty of laws that protects workers. A quick search turned up these:

    • A right to a workplace that is “free from recognized hazards that are causing or are likely to cause death or serious physical harm.”
    Occupational Safety and Health Act of 1970, § 5(a), 29 USC § 654(a)(1).
    • A right not to be discriminated against based on “race, color, religion, sex, or national origin.”
    Title VII or the Civil Rights Act of 1964, 42 USC § 2000e–2(a)(1).
    • A right not to be discriminated against based on age, i.e. 40-70 years inclusive.
    Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967, 29 USC §§ 624(a)(1)(A), 631(a).
    • A right to reasonable accommodations for their disability.
    Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990, Title I, 42 U.S.C. §§ 12101-12117, 12201-12213, et seq.
    • A right to “self-organization, to form, join, or assist labor organizations, to bargain collectively through representatives of their own choosing, and to engage in other concerted activities for the purpose of collective bargaining or other mutual aid or protection.”
    National Labor Relations Act, 29 USC § 157
    • A right not to be retaliated against for reporting unsafe working conditions.
    Occupational Safety and Health Act of 1970, § 11(c), 29 USC § 660(c).
    • A right not to be retaliated against for investigating government contract fraud or taking action under the False Claims Act.
    Federal False Claims Act, 31 U.S.C. § 3730(h).
    • A right to report corporate and securities fraud to regulatory bodies.
    Sarbanes-Oxley Act of 2002, 18 U.S.C. § 1514A.
    • A right to expect that trustees of employee health and welfare plans act in the “sole” interest of plan participants.
    Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974, 29 USC § 1104(a)(1).
    • A right to be paid at a rate of time and one-half for all work performed over 40 hours in one work week if an employee is “non exempt.” The exemption is determined by the type of work performed and not by the label the employer gives the employee.
    Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938, 29 USC § 207(a).
    • A right to at least 60 days advance notice for mass layoffs or plant closings where the employer with 100 or more employees engages in a plant closing of 50 or more employees at a work site, or a mass layoff of at least 500 employees (or at least 50 employees, if that is one-third or more of the total). Workers are entitled to pay and all benefits through the 60 day advanced layoff notice period, whether or not an employer requires employees to work through it.
    Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification Act (Pub. L. 100-379), 29 USC §§ 2101(a), 2102(a).
    • A right to take up to 12 weeks off to care for a newborn, or themselves or a family member with a serious health condition where the employer has 50 or more employees. Workers may take off up to 26 weeks off to care for an injured member of the Armed Forces.
    Family and Medical Leave Act of 1993, § 102(a)(1), 29 USC § 2612(a)(1), as amended by the National Defense Authorization Act for FY 2008 (Pub. L. 110-181), § 585.
    And why do these laws exist? Certainly not because business owners felt guilty.

    Laws can be changed. Without unions they will.

    And this is coming from a guy in an area where unions are a much bigger problem than they are in the US.

  11. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by AUTaxMan View Post
    We now have federal laws that prevent abuse of employees in terms of working age, conditions, hours, etc. So what is the purpose of unions again, other than to ensure that people are paid MORE than they are worth in the free market?

    So what is to stop an company from paying it's workers a decent wage, bragging about how much money it is making then all of a sudden decide that it dosen't like paying the wages it is paying and cuts wages aboard all while making it's employees work harder. Yes it's legal but just because something is legal dosen't make it right.
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