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Thread: Gun Control?

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by JustAlex View Post
    Thank you for making this thread Madman.

    If the U.S does NOTHING yet again.....the last shred of confidence I have on DC will be permanently gone!

    WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING!

    Whether it's gun control or this country's mental health.....SOMETHING MUST BE DONE!

    Yesterday was a STARK reality that I live in a country which has FAILED it's citizens!

    A country which has NOT done enough to guard it's citizens from madness and violence which should NEVER happen.

    It's incidents like yesterday why I will CONTINUE to constantly criticize America relentlessly!
    I can agree with this post.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Wickabee View Post
    OK. No talking about gun control until something that gun control could have stopped happens, guys. Oh, but we're not shutting down that conversation. We're... we're... what is the point of this again?
    well, apparently your point is just to say over and over again how america and their gun fetish is the cause of this and we need to do something, even though there is probably nothing to be done on the gun control front. That sounds like complaining just to complain. Or knocking america just to knock america, not sure which.

    I have offered that something could be done about gun show purchases, but outside of that, most of the guns used in mass shootings would have been acquired regardless of how strict the laws were.

    there are countries where every adult male is given a gun and taught how to use it. they have almost zero gun violence, so i don't think the issue is clear cut that access to weapons in the problem.

    the bigger issue that needs discussing is on the mental health front, increased encouragement for parents to lock their guns up, etc. If we can give discounts on internet and cell phones because people need them, then why don't we give discounts on gun safes. I know many people who don't have a gun safe just because of the cost.

    I am all for having the discussion. Just tired of people who shout "gun control" without any real plans. They are no better than the people who shout "obama is going to take all my guns away." they are opposite sides of the same coin, and neither are helpful to the conversation.
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  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by drtom2005 View Post
    A good mental health system would probably have stopped this issue. I give it an 80% chance that this guy had mental health issues and one of 2 things happened.
    He didn't go to the doctor or didn't listen to his doctor.

    Although most mentally ill people do not do violent crimes , they are the ones the crimes are committed against.

    Of course, the polticians will turn this into a gun control issue instead of what is really broken, our mental health system.
    My thoughts exactly. There are plenty of gun owners who don't commit these crimes; they should not be punished by the actions of a few. There is such a lack of quality mental health care, and such a stigma attached to mental illnesses. THAT is where the changes need to be made.

    For every problem, there is a cause. The cause of this goes much deeper than gun ownership and gun prevalence. The causes must be dealt with, or the problem with just find a different way to manifest itself.

  4. #34


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    Quote Originally Posted by JustAlex View Post
    Thank you for making this thread Madman.

    If the U.S does NOTHING yet again.....the last shred of confidence I have on DC will be permanently gone!

    WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING!

    Whether it's gun control or this country's mental health.....SOMETHING MUST BE DONE!

    Yesterday was a STARK reality that I live in a country which has FAILED it's citizens!

    A country which has NOT done enough to guard it's citizens from madness and violence which should NEVER happen.

    It's incidents like yesterday why I will CONTINUE to constantly criticize America relentlessly!
    Don't you know? Because it's possible gun control wouldn't have stopped this, we can't talk about gun control at all.
    That's the rules.

  5. #35


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    Beckett (66)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensbergcollector View Post
    well, apparently your point is just to say over and over again how america and their gun fetish is the cause of this and we need to do something, even though there is probably nothing to be done on the gun control front. That sounds like complaining just to complain. Or knocking america just to knock america, not sure which.

    I have offered that something could be done about gun show purchases, but outside of that, most of the guns used in mass shootings would have been acquired regardless of how strict the laws were.

    there are countries where every adult male is given a gun and taught how to use it. they have almost zero gun violence, so i don't think the issue is clear cut that access to weapons in the problem.

    the bigger issue that needs discussing is on the mental health front, increased encouragement for parents to lock their guns up, etc. If we can give discounts on internet and cell phones because people need them, then why don't we give discounts on gun safes. I know many people who don't have a gun safe just because of the cost.

    I am all for having the discussion. Just tired of people who shout "gun control" without any real plans. They are no better than the people who shout "obama is going to take all my guns away." they are opposite sides of the same coin, and neither are helpful to the conversation.
    So why doesn't this happen nearly as often everywhere else than it does the US?

    Talking western society here.

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by ensbergcollector View Post
    but again, all that sounds great. But what steps need to be taken? what could actually have been done, on a gun control perspective, that could have helped avoid this?
    Sadly, it sounds like the answer is "not much"
    he took the guns from his mom, who had them legally.
    Having said that, it sounds like one of the guns was an AR-15, which is a semi-automatic weapon -- Which always brings me back to how I feel about weapons like this and how I have felt about weapons like this for pretty much my whole life. "WHY do we need them?"

    My family hunts, I've thought about owning a firearm as I see crime playing a larger role in my community, I grew up in scouts and shot clay pigeons, I don't have aversion to guns, but I don't understand why we need to have assault weapons allowed in our society. Would a ban on assault weapons stopped this? probably not frankly... but would it stop the next mass shooting? maybe. or maybe the one after that. It seems like a good time to ask ourselves if we really need to have these guns as part of life in the U.S. My take is that we don't and they do more harm than good, but I'll read others opinions about why we do...
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  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Wickabee View Post
    So why doesn't this happen nearly as often everywhere else than it does the US?

    Talking western society here.
    purely guessing...untreated mental health, parents who do not lock up their guns or teach their kids properly about gun use, sensationalized violence in america, etc.
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  8. #38


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    Quote Originally Posted by matt_curren View Post
    Sadly, it sounds like the answer is "not much"
    he took the guns from his mom, who had them legally.
    Having said that, it sounds like one of the guns was an AR-15, which is a semi-automatic weapon -- Which always brings me back to how I feel about weapons like this and how I have felt about weapons like this for pretty much my whole life. "WHY do we need them?"

    My family hunts, I've thought about owning a firearm as I see crime playing a larger role in my community, I grew up in scouts and shot clay pigeons, I don't have aversion to guns, but I don't understand why we need to have assault weapons allowed in our society. Would a ban on assault weapons stopped this? probably not frankly... but would it stop the next mass shooting? maybe. or maybe the one after that. It seems like a good time to ask ourselves if we really need to have these guns as part of life in the U.S. My take is that we don't and they do more harm than good, but I'll read others opinions about why we do...
    Even if it still happens but a lack of semi or auto weapons meant 4 people died instead of 28, isn't that a win?
    Criminals will always have guns, semi, auto or other. This guy wasnt a criminal until he killed his mother, so that argument makes no sense in a case like this.

  9. #39
    no, more could have died, it doesn't take long to reload or simply pull out another weapon, then we will have to deal with the potential of explosive devices.

    the fact is with how many guns there are and the population, this will happen here more than elsewhere, also the media "fame' here keeps it all going.

    harsher punishments for crimes with firearms is needed, harsher laws on killers is also needed.

    the health care systems need revamped and the money wasted on fraud could pay for it.

    the shame is even if we raise everyones taxes, there is not enough to even pay for our current budget, much less fixing something this important.

    armed guards at all schools? certainly would create some jobs, but you know it will also create other problems, and maybe ones worse than what we are dealing with now.
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  10. #40
    I think Morgan Freeman said it best:


    "You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.


    It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

    CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

    You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem."
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