ITG History Of Hockey......My concerns as a comsumer/collector.

[2010CTyler]

Good Afternoon everyone,

In the past few days there has been a lot of talk about the brand new ITG History of Hockey. While I do like the idea for the product, I have seen a lot of posts and witnessed breaks which leave many questions and concerns as a long-time collector and comsumer.

1. How is this product legal? I have been wondering how ITG is allowed to repackage another company's cards in their own box and with their name clearly on each individual case (excluding the PSA authenticated cards). How can some cards, especially some high-end rookies, be repackaged and resold with different odds from the original product? Do these companies not have the right to market and advertise their own products in the method of their choice? For example, a retail store cannot buy a product and then change the packaging or manufacturer to make the product seem more desirable. It is sold as it was made from the factory that manufactured it. I cannot go to a store, buy a loaf of bread, and then sell it as my own homemade creation.

2. Has anyone else noticed how many low-end rookies and cards are in this product? Score? Pro Set? Regardless if the card has an autograph, it's a 5-cent card at the flea market. Aside form the signing fees, what is the unit cost per these cards? Even some of the buybacks are questionable and make this product feel like it's been recycled and clearly a cash grab. One card made by ITG can generate hundreds in sales for the company. I'll use an example:

-Jimmy buys a box of 2002/2003 Signature Series in 2003 for $200. One of his pulls is a Volchenkov RC. Years after, this card can be bought for a fraction of the box/pack price (around $1.50 on Ebay).

-Tommy buys a box of ITG History of Hockey in 2012 and pulls the same Volchenkov RC. However, this time the card was bought for a much higher amount (roughly $70 after taxes)


Do you see the problem here? ITG has resold a card which is virtually worthless for $70! After 2 products, that single card has netted the company around $100. What's to say you won't see the same card in a future product? Buybacks can really only be succesful when a certain value or collectibility is present, not when you lose $68 on a single card.

3. Where are the relics coming from? Let's be honest, there will come a time when there are no more Maurice Richard or Terry Sawchuk jerseys, pads, skates, etc. to be putting into cards. Who authenticates the jerseys and memorabilia?



I feel that as a major comsumers, collectors should take many factors into consideration when purchasing a product. In the end, it all comes down to value and unfortunately, there appears to be little value in this product as a whole.

[centrehice]

They are able to re-package because the cards were legally purchased. You don't see any claims from ITGU that these are their own cards, nor do they claim that. They only say "Authentic" which is not a trademarked word and can be use by anyone.

Legally within any boundaries.


I commented that the issue was full of fillers. There are piles of Thumbers Rookie cards that are pretty much worthless, and when you pull a vintage rookie, why would you want one in a hard case unless it was Graded.

[2010CTyler]

Yes, but they're re-selling them in their own packaging. It's just seems very distasteful that they are benefiting off the design of someone else and the demand/collectibility of another company's product. I agree with your point, if someone was fortunate enough to pull a big RC, they would most likely want it graded, not just authenticated.

[reoddai]

1. How is this product legal? I have been wondering how ITG is allowed to repackage another company's cards in their own box and with their name clearly on each individual case (excluding the PSA authenticated cards).

Lots of companies do this. For cards even. Just go to any local mart store and look for those generic boxes that say "up to 2 packs" or "includes a graded card". The flip of this is "how would this be illegal"? What crime would you charge ITG with?

How can some cards, especially some high-end rookies, be repackaged and resold with different odds from the original product? Do these companies not have the right to market and advertise their own products in the method of their choice?

The original companies already did this. Hence what made those cards available to the marketplace to be bought by ITG and re-sold.

For example, a retail store cannot buy a product and then change the packaging or manufacturer to make the product seem more desirable.

Actually, yes they can. A quick use of the internet would have helped address this comment. Several card companies have argued in litigation that they are allowed to do just that. Re-sell competitor's cards as buybacks. You might want to look into the use of OPC cards (owned by Topps in the past) that were inserted as buybacks in modern OPC sets (now owned by Upper Deck).

It is sold as it was made from the factory that manufactured it. I cannot go to a store, buy a loaf of bread, and then sell it as my own homemade creation.

That would be false advertising. BUT, what's to stop you from going to the store and buy a pack of 12 pop cans in a box. You could then open the package and sell those individually. This happens in many venues. Even restaurants buy drinks in bulk from stores and then re-sell them to the customer for a markup. I think its perfectly clear

2. Has anyone else noticed how many low-end rookies and cards are in this product? Score? Pro Set? Regardless if the card has an autograph, it's a 5-cent card at the flea market. Aside form the signing fees, what is the unit cost per these cards? Even some of the buybacks are questionable and make this product feel like it's been recycled and clearly a cash grab. One card made by ITG can generate hundreds in sales for the company. I'll use an example:

-Jimmy buys a box of 2002/2003 Signature Series in 2003 for $200. One of his pulls is a Volchenkov RC. Years after, this card can be bought for a fraction of the box/pack price (around $1.50 on Ebay).

-Tommy buys a box of ITG History of Hockey in 2012 and pulls the same Volchenkov RC. However, this time the card was bought for a much higher amount (roughly $70 after taxes)


Do you see the problem here? ITG has resold a card which is virtually worthless for $70! After 2 products, that single card has netted the company around $100. What's to say you won't see the same card in a future product? Buybacks can really only be succesful when a certain value or collectibility is present, not when you lose $68 on a single card.

You point is poorly made, so forgive me if I get it wrong. I assume that you weren't planning to make similar arguments about cards like the Gretzky or Crosby Rookie. That is that after Jimmy pays 100$ for his box that nets him a Crosby RC and years later is it now worth 300$. Then Tommy buys his box of 2012 and pulls the same Crosby RC and this time the card was bought for a much lower 70$ amount.

I would stick with that first point of 'too many low ends' in the product. That is of course subjective. I'd be interested to see how many from the 4000 cards, all listed qualify as these '5 cent cards' you mention. Did you count them?

3. Where are the relics coming from? Let's be honest, there will come a time when there are no more Maurice Richard or Terry Sawchuk jerseys, pads, skates, etc. to be putting into cards. Who authenticates the jerseys and memorabilia?

Check the back of each card. It should state on the back if there was an authentication. Although most companies have started using laxer language. Generally they all say "that it was authenticated by whomever sold it to the company". If you are very concerned about this issue, why not contact each company and ask them? I think ITG would gladly answer. UD has a webpage that talks about their authentication process I think. Panini also shares (sometimes) when they buy jerseys of significant value.

Cheers,
reoddai

[2010CTyler]

You make some good points. However, the basis of my points are reflective of the price point of this product. A can of pop or some cheap packs of Wal-Mart cards are pocket change. $250 isn't

[centrehice]

Your Walmart or Target packs are going to offer better value for the price, as your chance at a good Rookie or Insert is easier than hitting the top 500 cards in the HOH Issue based on a one box purchase.

Your turnover vs investment is a much higher percentage with cheap loose packs. And yes - $250.00 is a lot of money.

[MatsSundin13Rocks]

I could create my own packs and sell them. All the cards I own are legally purchased and attained. If I want to create packs and sell them that way I am free to do you under the law.

[2010CTyler]

I could create my own packs and sell them. All the cards I own are legally purchased and attained. If I want to create packs and sell them that way I am free to do you under the law.

I just find it isn't in good taste to value off of another company's product. They dangle a few carrots in front of consumers and most of the product is overvalued filler.

[centrehice]

For this reason I am a Vintage Collector. In the 50's, 60's, 70's there was no Box Rookie Hype until Gretzky showed-up on the scene. Everybody began their rookie year at the same start line.

Nowadays, card companies tell us who they are going to market hard when that player is 15. The hype is introduced long before the first NHL shift. Most times some talent is there, but not enough to fulfill anywhere near the full pipeline of HYPE that appears much, much earlier.

I remember the 1999-2000 SP Authentic Future Watch Rookie of Patrik Stefan. Two years before it was released, Upper Deck was touting a $300.00 price tag to the SP Auth. Stefan Rookie, that price was determined long before the product was released. Once the kid took a shift in the NHL, everyone realized that he was only a Junior, playing in a Man's game.

All Hype.

[2010CTyler]

For this reason I am a Vintage Collector. In the 50's, 60's, 70's there was no Box Rookie Hype until Gretzky showed-up on the scene. Everybody began their rookie year at the same start line.

Nowadays, card companies tell us who they are going to market hard when that player is 15. The hype is introduced long before the first NHL shift. Most times some talent is there, but not enough to fulfill anywhere near the full pipeline of HYPE that appears much, much earlier.

I remember the 1999-2000 SP Authentic Future Watch Rookie of Patrik Stefan. Two years before it was released, Upper Deck was touting a $300.00 price tag to the SP Auth. Stefan Rookie, that price was determined long before the product was released. Once the kid took a shift in the NHL, everyone realized that he was only a Junior, playing in a Man's game.

All Hype.

Cannot agree more. As a youngster I remember my friends begging their parents for money to buy Jay Bowmeester cards after he was called "the next Bobby Orr". Safest cards to collect are retired superstars. To ITG's credit, the art cards do not disappoint.