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  1. #231


    Wickabee's Avatar

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    Beckett (66)

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    Quote Originally Posted by indexed View Post
    Fine I will answer for him I could care less about how much it fixes. These so called plans make it worse. They put the power of gun ownership in the hands of criminals. That is why they are brought up. Those are the people that will break any new laws passed and make myself less safe thats the issue. The issue you REFUSE to accept or respond to. All you keep doing is saying are you saying criminals are the only ones that commit murder??????????????

    Criminals are the ones that will break the new laws passed and you wont be able to do anything about it. You can't even respond to the issue.
    This is the first time it's been explained beyond "murderers is a crime therefor only criminals commit murder". My apologies for thinking that was insane reasoning and thank you for FINALLY putting your point out there.

    What I would say to that is you're expecting one move to fix all problems or it's crap. Graduated licensing, for example, does nothing to take away your protection or right to any guns that are currently legal, at least the way I put it forth. Yet, you still claimed it would help criminals and hurt ordinary people. If you could explain that to me in a manner that makes sense and doesn't mention where I'm from, by all means do so. The fact of the matter is you guys have been coming up with the same line over and over with no explanation or plan of any sort, yet you criticize me for trying to figure you out. I don't know what you think you're doing, but it's the opposite of open discourse and actual thought. You're acting closed minded and criticizing everyone who doesn't agree with you because...everyone should agree with you?

    The fact of the matter is there's a huge problem and people are dying. You and Jay have brought no ideas for solutions to the table, only screamed "YOU CAN'T HAVE MY GUNS!" over and over with different words. I can see that you're absolutely right in one area though, you obviously don't what what can fix the problem, or even if the problem gets fixed. You have no ideas for solutions, just tell everyone else they'
    re idiots for trying. In this thread you've been closed minded, judgmental, ignorant and self-righteous. I wish you'd be open minded and give others some credit. You two aren't the be all to end all and you're certainly no better than anyone else.

    As for the last sentence of the first paragraph, if you'd just answer the flipping question without roundabout crap I wouldn't have to ask so many times. It's a simple yes or no question, yet every time I ask it I get a paragraph form answer. Stop trying to look smart and actually act smart. Someone asks a question, answer it instead of giving a bunch of crap no one asked for. Someone is trying to understand you, help that person, don't criticize. You are a detriment to this conversation simply because you refuse to have it but insist on talking anyway.
    Last edited by Wickabee; 01-10-2013 at 03:19 PM.
    Patiently waiting for someone to bring back sax solos and keytars non ironically.

  2. #232
    I am still waiting for an answer about stricter penalties then for CONVICTED CRIMINALS .I said gun offense such as robberies or drug related carry a minimum of 20 years instead of the slap in the face 5 to 10.Then I stated murder automatic lief and start with more death penalty.Give the clowns a 3 year appeal window then ZAP your gone.So aagin will the liberal society give more death penalty deaths for sticter gun laws?Or is it all take take take?
    "Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here". Jack Nicholson
    The true hypocrite is the one who ceases to perceive his deception, the one who lies with sincerity. ~André Gide
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  3. #233


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    Beckett (66)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajcorleone View Post
    I am still waiting for an answer about stricter penalties then for CONVICTED CRIMINALS .I said gun offense such as robberies or drug related carry a minimum of 20 years instead of the slap in the face 5 to 10.Then I stated murder automatic lief and start with more death penalty.Give the clowns a 3 year appeal window then ZAP your gone.So aagin will the liberal society give more death penalty deaths for sticter gun laws?Or is it all take take take?
    The thing I'm going to say (and I hope we can have a real discussion, not the roundabout manure I've been getting from others) is that the death penalty is not really a deterrent. It doesn't lessen any crime, it just gives ultimate retribution. If your goal is simply to kill offenders, then it's great. If your goal is to deter people from committing crimes the death penalty (pretty much any penalty, really) doesn't stop people from committing crimes. I agree the logic is sound, but it doesn't take human nature into account.

    Where I do agree with you is the issue of guns isn't all about gun control, as so very many think. The issue of guns is really the issue of violence. After all a gun is a tool. Harsher sentencing may have some effect, but it's only one part.
    Patiently waiting for someone to bring back sax solos and keytars non ironically.

  4. #234


    Wickabee's Avatar

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    Beckett (66)

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    Also, I have to ask (because every time this has been asked in the past it's been glossed over or muddied up. If that continues I will continue to ask it):

    If we shouldn't pass new gun laws because criminals won't follow them, why do we have any laws?

    Criminals don't follow existing laws, should we get rid of them? (That would eliminate all crime!)

    If we should have laws despite criminals not following them, why are guns off limits for laws?


    I await your answers (though I'm not holding my breath)
    Patiently waiting for someone to bring back sax solos and keytars non ironically.

  5. #235
    I will gibe my honest opinion and mine only.Death sentences may not be a deterrent and may be considerd retribution but we need to do it.Most families I have dealt with and not all but most would prefer the assailants to be put to death.So yes it might not deter but it will sure give somebody peace of mind.Like I said give to get.Yes no matter what laws we make they are still going ot be broken.So why not clear out the rif raft.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wickabee View Post
    The thing I'm going to say (and I hope we can have a real discussion, not the roundabout manure I've been getting from others) is that the death penalty is not really a deterrent. It doesn't lessen any crime, it just gives ultimate retribution. If your goal is simply to kill offenders, then it's great. If your goal is to deter people from committing crimes the death penalty (pretty much any penalty, really) doesn't stop people from committing crimes. I agree the logic is sound, but it doesn't take human nature into account.

    Where I do agree with you is the issue of guns isn't all about gun control, as so very many think. The issue of guns is really the issue of violence. After all a gun is a tool. Harsher sentencing may have some effect, but it's only one part.
    "Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here". Jack Nicholson
    The true hypocrite is the one who ceases to perceive his deception, the one who lies with sincerity. ~André Gide
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  6. #236


    Wickabee's Avatar

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    Beckett (66)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajcorleone View Post
    I will gibe my honest opinion and mine only.Death sentences may not be a deterrent and may be considerd retribution but we need to do it.Most families I have dealt with and not all but most would prefer the assailants to be put to death.So yes it might not deter but it will sure give somebody peace of mind.Like I said give to get.Yes no matter what laws we make they are still going ot be broken.So why not clear out the rif raft.
    I'm one of those who would gain nothing from seeing an assailant die, unless by my hand in a moment of anger. That said, I do understand some people do gain something from it. Perhaps leave it up to the victim to decide if he rots in jail or dies? I don't know. I don't think it's something we need to do so much as it logically makes sense in a way.

    As for clearing out the riff raff, for every one you kill, there's two to take their place. It's like thinking taking out gang memberswill slow down the gang. Crime is always going to look lucrative to a lot of people and nothing is going to stop that. The best we can do is make it so the least amount possible see it as lucrative. Part of that is harsh sentencing, but people still get sent to death row, so it's not a deterrent. Education is a big step, but that's a whole issue unto itself.

    Gun control is not about lessening armed robberies and mass shootings. It serves to stop "crime of passion" killings before they happen. Want to shoot someone but need to buy a gun first. You have to stay angry for three days.

    Since I finally have someone talking to me like I'm a person and not a stupid kid who should listen because you're right (looking at you, indexed, Jay) is there a real drawback to a graduated licensing system as I outlined earlier. The only feedback I've gotten on it is "Criminals will still have guns and you're Canadian so it won't work" and I'd like an actual, thoughtful viewpoint. Any thoughts?
    Patiently waiting for someone to bring back sax solos and keytars non ironically.

  7. #237
    Like I said I myself would be willing to see revised gun laws.As long as i se revised penalties towards criminals.I don't want to hear anything about thre are 2 more for everyone killed.If that is the case keep that needle hot and keep on dropping these fools.Yes it sounds extreme but how committed are they for their cause.Curve gun laws fine but don't preach when we start executing 10 people a month for crimes they are guilty of.You might not feel better and i respect that but if you want your vision seen then you have to give up something others want.Would you yourself be willing to live with that?
    "Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here". Jack Nicholson
    The true hypocrite is the one who ceases to perceive his deception, the one who lies with sincerity. ~André Gide
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  8. #238
    Corporal Punishment is one thing, but the Remand situation, in some cases 12-16 years on Death Row is another.

    I prefer the Court System in many of the Caribbean countries. Rape a woman on a Thursday night, you are in court the following Monday morning, and in jail for 16 years two days later, on the Wednesday, all taken care of in less than 5 days.

  9. #239


    Wickabee's Avatar

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    Beckett (66)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajcorleone View Post
    Like I said I myself would be willing to see revised gun laws.As long as i se revised penalties towards criminals.I don't want to hear anything about thre are 2 more for everyone killed.If that is the case keep that needle hot and keep on dropping these fools.Yes it sounds extreme but how committed are they for their cause.Curve gun laws fine but don't preach when we start executing 10 people a month for crimes they are guilty of.You might not feel better and i respect that but if you want your vision seen then you have to give up something others want.Would you yourself be willing to live with that?
    Willing to compromise? Holy crap! I've been waiting WEEKS for someone (somewhat) against gun control to say that! HALLELUJAH!

    Seriously, you just made my freaking week!
    Patiently waiting for someone to bring back sax solos and keytars non ironically.

  10. #240

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