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01-09-2013, 11:52 PM #221
Last edited by Zimbow; 01-09-2013 at 11:57 PM."There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution" - John Adams, March 4, 1797 Ė March 4, 1801
01-10-2013, 01:28 AM #222
01-10-2013, 04:14 AM #223
Look heres the real issue people kill people and guns don't. SPecifically criminals and drug cartels kill people OK done.
Second you guys need to look into what has really been going on. Your leader Obama has already attempted once to enact gun legislation through the United Nations. Our congress stepped up and informed him it was unconstitutional for the United States to enter into any foreign treaties without the written consent of the United States Congress.
Fast forward to now some dude goes bat man at a school and here we are arguing this stupidity because the Supreme Court has already ruled. The court is more conservative now then they were when they ruled last so no executive order will stand.
Now we revert back to plan B which is to enforce this through the United Nations. The only way this would be possible would be if the United Nations were called into our soil in some sort of peace keeping mission. The only way that will happen if there is some sort of catastrophic event that makes 9/11 look like disney land.
Now within the past week legislation has been passed eliminating term limits for the president. If something of this size were to happen the sitting president would most likely remain in power.
I do believe 100% that Obama is that kind of man. Call me a conspiracy theory nut or what ever. All Im saying is congress won't pass it. The Supreme Court wont uphold and executive order but the debate is happening and they are setting Obama for a third term.
Plan B, that is what I am worried about. A event that brings UN troops onto our soil because it is the ONLY way to enforce this war against guns.
01-10-2013, 11:29 AM #224
If people truly want to stop mass murders in school then they will support arming school faculty. Banks protect their money with armed guards. Gun grabbers like Cuomo, Obama, and Bloomberg are protected 24/7 with armed guards as well (and by the way they have assault rifles and high capacity magazines, the same things they would deny citizens). Are politicians and money more important to protect than our children?
Until we address the underlying issues that are causing crazy people to attempt mass murder, we need to put policies in place that are effective in stopping or limiting the damage of mass murder attempts.
Here is a stat to think about:
Attempted mass shootings stopped by police equals an average on 14.29 dead
Attempted mass shootings stopped by citizens equals an average on 2.33 dead
Here's the link to the analysis and methodology used.
The writer concludes:With 15 incidents stopped by police with a total of 217 dead thatís an average of about 14.29. With 17 incidents stopped by civilians and 45 dead thatís an average of 2.33.
The first point I want to draw your attention to is that roughly half of shooting rampages end in suicide anyway. What that means is that police are not ever in a position to stop most of them. Only the civilians present at the time of the shooting have any opportunity to stop those shooters. Thatís probably more important than the statistic itself. In a shooting rampage, counting on the police to intervene at all is a coin flip at best.
Second, within the civilian category 11 of the 17 shootings were stopped by unarmed civilians. Whatís amazing about that is that whether armed or not, when a civilian plays hero it seems to save a lot of lives. The courthouse shooting in Tyler, Texas was the only incident where the heroic civilian was killed. In that incident the hero was armed with a handgun and the villain was armed with a rifle and body armor. If you compare the average of people killed in shootings stopped by armed civilians and unarmed civilians you get 1.8 and 2.6 but thatís not nearly as significant as the difference between a proactive civilian, and a cowering civilian who waits for police.
So, given that far less people die in rampage shootings stopped by a proactive civilian, only civilians have any opportunity to stop rampage shootings in roughly half of incidents, and armed civilians do better on average than unarmed civilians, wouldnít you want those heroic individuals who risk their lives to save others to have every tool available at their disposal?Oddball checklists plus Oddball and Serial #d for sale:
01-10-2013, 11:58 AM #225
So you're saying everyone who murders another was previously a criminal?
01-10-2013, 12:06 PM #226
chicken or the egg
01-10-2013, 12:10 PM #227
01-10-2013, 02:47 PM #228
really? then why do you try to pick apart every post? perhaps to fit it into what you want?
you stated I was talking about a single end all, I pointed out there was more than 6 in the last post alone, so now you are on this kick?
I care about the 45 murders and thousands of missing people everyday, not gun control.
gun control will not stop it, so I look elsewhere.
01-10-2013, 03:01 PM #229
And as for picking apart every post, I'm trying to decipher your roundabout and eternally confusing posts so I can understand your backwards logic. If you want to sensitively call that "picking apart" then fine. If you think everyone should just stop trying to understand and shut their mouths and listen to you, carry on. I'm just trying to understand you and here you are criticizing me for it. If there were less people like you the world might have more understanding harmony and peace. People like you won't let that happen. Congratulations.
01-10-2013, 03:09 PM #230
Fine I will answer for him I could care less about how much it fixes. These so called plans make it worse. They put the power of gun ownership in the hands of criminals. That is why they are brought up. Those are the people that will break any new laws passed and make myself less safe thats the issue. The issue you REFUSE to accept or respond to. All you keep doing is saying are you saying criminals are the only ones that commit murder??????????????
Criminals are the ones that will break the new laws passed and you wont be able to do anything about it. You can't even respond to the issue.