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  1. #21


    Wickabee's Avatar

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    Beckett (66)

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    I agree on the principle. At the same time, he has every right to put "Hockey History" in there.
    Let me ask you this. If Upper Deck repackaged a bunch of ITG cards and called it their own product, how happy would you be about that?

  2. #22
    Without focusing on shifting goalposts and getting into rhetorical scenarios about what who would do what in a reversed scenario, let's try to keep things on topic here as best as possible.

    The seller engaged in a deceptive practice. It's no different, IMO, than a seller who puts "BGS 9.5?" in a thread title on a raw/ungraded card. Say I send in the card to BGS and it comes back only a 9 or an 8.5 - would I have grounds to say, "This card is not what you said it would be - I want my money back."

    It's using the name of something unaffiliated to the actual product in an attempt to bolster its attractiveness. If someone wants to sell a standard PSA/DNA autograph, sell it on its own merits.
    Carey Price fan and collector - want your hard-signed autos!
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  3. #23


    Wickabee's Avatar

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    Beckett (66)

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    My point was ITG is guilty of shady practices. They've taken existing products and called them their own. I wasn't going to say anything until of became apparent someone thinks he owns any phrase with "history" and "hockey" in it. I could handle reselling someone else's work as serving new and exciting, but not when coupled with the hypocrisy of complaining about a listing on eBay. Remember he's just a dude. A company should be held to higher standards and I don't think reselling a RC made by another company and saying it's your own "new" product.
    So go ahead and complain about shady practices, but remember who made the first move.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Wickabee View Post
    ...You bought another company's product and re-released it as your own, devaluing identical products in the process...
    That is a very interesting point. When I made my first post I did not realize that History of Hockey did not contain any new cards produced by ITG. Anytime there is a complaint about a competitor (which is what this seller is) infringing on one's turf it is because the competitor is trying to capitalize on the ideas, work, product or popularity of the other party. ITG, in this case, did not produce any original content within this product that they can claim as their "intelectual property". All they did was aquire another companies product, have them graded and repackaged them with a new name.

    Really, History of Hockey is just like those "Find the Hidden Gem" boxes sold in retail stores that implore you to find the one box containing the Howe or Orr RC. Both products contain previously released cards from various manufacturers. The big difference being that you rarely find the "Hidden Gem" whereas buying History of Hockey you have better odds of receiveing valuable cards.
    Hidden Content
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  5. #25


    Wickabee's Avatar

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    Beckett (66)

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    I've never seen a "Find the Hidden Gems" at $300. You get about the same percentage return from the looks of it. Same game, just more money involved.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by RGM81 View Post
    Without focusing on shifting goalposts and getting into rhetorical scenarios about what who would do what in a reversed scenario, let's try to keep things on topic here as best as possible.

    The seller engaged in a deceptive practice. It's no different, IMO, than a seller who puts "BGS 9.5?" in a thread title on a raw/ungraded card. Say I send in the card to BGS and it comes back only a 9 or an 8.5 - would I have grounds to say, "This card is not what you said it would be - I want my money back."

    It's using the name of something unaffiliated to the actual product in an attempt to bolster its attractiveness. If someone wants to sell a standard PSA/DNA autograph, sell it on its own merits.


    That is an absolute assumption. You cannot say that without really knowing, Take off the Mod hat for a change and let people have their opinion.
    Collecting many HOF Cards, Old OPC, Old Parkhurst, Old Topps.

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  7. #27
    Good God, this product has brought out SO much anger in SO many people. It's just like Thanksgiving at our place a few months ago :D


    No one is trying to copyright "History of Hockey," but like The Man says, if the eBay seller had tried selling his PSA/DNA cards back in August, those words wouldn't be in the auctions. The seller is trying to take advantage of some people. That's it. That's all.


    I've said my bit about History of Hockey, and then I moved on. But after reading post after post since then, with the rising vitriol and borderline crazeeeeeee, I'd really like to know how many of y'all screaming your heads off actually paid money for this product??? My box was poop, my opinions were based on the reasons why it was poop. The new threads now tho, how long until you're wanting Doc Price to apolagize for shooting JFK????
    Hidden Content Hidden Content Hidden Content , you FAVORITED a complaint? Did you even read any of it???

    Hidden Content Hidden Content We thought you were a Pierre-Marc Bouchard fan.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by 87sluggo View Post
    good god, this product has brought out so much anger in so many people. It's just like thanksgiving at our place a few months ago :d
    lmao
    Main PC: Yzerman, Zetterberg, Draper, McCarty, Maltby, Kocur (the grind line)
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by centrehice View Post
    That is an absolute assumption. You cannot say that without really knowing, Take off the Mod hat for a change and let people have their opinion.
    People are free to have their opinions, but where I have an opportunity to educate, discuss, and perhaps even inform, I'm never one to shy away from that. If I change a mind or two, great. If people choose to read what I post and continue to believe things which are different from what I believe, equally great. The world wouldn't be quite as exciting if everybody thought the same way I do.
    Carey Price fan and collector - want your hard-signed autos!
    Hidden Content Hidden Content ! 195 Unique Cards + 8 1/1's!!!





  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Wickabee View Post
    I agree on the principle. At the same time, he has every right to put "Hockey History" in there.
    Let me ask you this. If Upper Deck repackaged a bunch of ITG cards and called it their own product, how happy would you be about that?
    You're right, of course. I doubt very much that the phrase 'History of Hockey' has been copyrighted - which gives the seller every right to use it in his auction. Is he trying to pass his cards off as something other than what they are? Yes. Does that mean he doesn't have the right to do it? No. While the question wasn't directed at me - I will absolutley agree that if Upper Deck ever wanted to make a similar product, I would have ZERO issue with them buying past issued ITG cards and inserting them into packs. Just like they did with older OPC buybacks (that they did not produce) and insert them.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGM81 View Post
    Without focusing on shifting goalposts and getting into rhetorical scenarios about what who would do what in a reversed scenario, let's try to keep things on topic here as best as possible.

    The seller engaged in a deceptive practice. It's no different, IMO, than a seller who puts "BGS 9.5?" in a thread title on a raw/ungraded card. Say I send in the card to BGS and it comes back only a 9 or an 8.5 - would I have grounds to say, "This card is not what you said it would be - I want my money back."

    It's using the name of something unaffiliated to the actual product in an attempt to bolster its attractiveness. If someone wants to sell a standard PSA/DNA autograph, sell it on its own merits.
    Yup. How many people have posted here, complaining about an auction with "1/1" in the title? Despite that card not being a 1/1, and being numbered to the player's jersey, or having some crazy patch, or something that the seller feels makes it a "one of a kind" even though by hobby standards it isn't? Its simply a tactic to get more views.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drewk86a View Post
    That is a very interesting point. When I made my first post I did not realize that History of Hockey did not contain any new cards produced by ITG. Anytime there is a complaint about a competitor (which is what this seller is) infringing on one's turf it is because the competitor is trying to capitalize on the ideas, work, product or popularity of the other party. ITG, in this case, did not produce any original content within this product that they can claim as their "intelectual property". All they did was aquire another companies product, have them graded and repackaged them with a new name.

    Really, History of Hockey is just like those "Find the Hidden Gem" boxes sold in retail stores that implore you to find the one box containing the Howe or Orr RC. Both products contain previously released cards from various manufacturers. The big difference being that you rarely find the "Hidden Gem" whereas buying History of Hockey you have better odds of receiveing valuable cards.
    That's not exactly true. There are origional cards in this product too. In each 4 card pack you get a RC, an Auto, an ITG buyback, and an Art / Memoribilia card. The Art / Memoribilia card was produced new for this product (that's 1/4 of the product). No, not every card was new.... but many were. For the other three types of cards, the ITG buybacks are (of course) all ITG cards. The certifed autographs could be on ITG cards, and some of the RCs could be from ITG products. Without going over the checklist in detail.... I would also be willing to guess that a small number of those two types are actually ITG cards. Obviously they have repackaged many cards that they did not create, but if you actually look at the checklist - that applies to roughly a little less than half the cards in the whole release. Also, just to note, they didn't have anything graded. The RCs and the Autos were authenticated, that's it.














    At the end of the day, I don't understand what all the fuss is about, regarding this product - or anyone that will correctly call out this eBayer for doing what he's doing: Listing his cards so that they appear to be part of the History Of Hockey release, when they are not.

    Better question to ask - If you wanted a PSA authenticated autograph of Ken Dryden.... why would it matter who the seller is? If you want that Dryden, why some random eBayer selling it vs being packaged in an ITG release would make a difference to anyone, I'm not sure. I get why certified autographs are considered better (be that ITG, or any other company). Those cards have the usual COA on the back (signed in the presence of / gaurenteed by) where a PSA authenticator is simply giving an opinion. An expert opinion yes, but still just an opinion.

    On the product in general, I go back to - why all the fuss? The product is selling for something in the $200-$300 deal, depending on what side of the border you're on, and where you buy it. All 4,000 cards from this release are listed on ITG's website. The price point is high, but there are some HUGE hits available. You're paying that price for the chance to pull a Vezina RC (amoung others) and if you think the price is too high, and the risk / reward isn't worth it - don't buy it.


    I do think ITG made one big mistake with this release, and that was not using custom holders to identify the autographs. If they had, this conversation wouldn't be happening.

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