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  1. #21
    A solution is to just block them lol. Not worth the time or thought

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  3. #22
    Getting into that subject I was a mechanic for 10 years then worked inside at the counter after that. Something everyone can relate to is getting their car worked on. You wanna talk about seeing every kind of con job from customers lol. Not only that, but a lot of people treat their cars like their own kids. The customers are so diverse so you never know what they will be like. You seriously have to treat all of them the same and have to be able to read people you deal with. You never know what any customer will be like. Profile them all you want, it just doesnt work lol. Thats where I learned to deal with people and money the way I have. Everyone knows the consumer side of this. the mechanic side of it is you have to cover yourself with everything on every car every day. You wanna know why it takes them so long to change your oil? Cause they spend 15 minutes documenting every problem they can find with it so someone cant blame them for it. then they start doing the work. The legal aspect of working as a mechanic is obsurd. You could easily lose your job over something you didnt see and wasnt your fault. Its pretty easy to haggle with people on price for various reasons, but thats a generalized statement. I could start a thread that would go on for months just telling the stuff I have seen people try and pull. Much less the stuff I have seen them get away with.
    pc is spectra spectra spectra

  4. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by sschind View Post

    I message a seller about a card, asking for a price. Seller says they don't have one in mind, so make an offer. I send a number, seller says it's too low.

    My response would be "Oh, so you DO have a number in mind. How do I know I can trust you to send the card if you are already lying to me this early in the negotiating process. I'd better take my business elsewhere." I'm sure I'd get a nice reply but it would probably be worth it. Seriously though, they ALWAYS have a number in mind. If you are fine with making offers it's no big deal I'm not so it is a big deal to me.
    Just a thought on the bolded statement: It's not "lying" to not reveal all the information you have in a negotiation. That's part of negotiating: You're trying to leverage your position in order to get what you want.

    When people message me saying "What's the absolute lowest price you would take for this card?" it would be stupid of me to just tell them that the least I would take is "X". I would much rather have X+any number. An extra $3, an extra $15, doesn't matter. So I usually reply with something like "Well, what do you think a fair price would be?". If it's higher than my lowest price, we very likely have a deal. If it's lower, than I can politely decline or counter with something around my lowest...but again, not my lowest. I can't remember the last time I sold something for the absolute minimum I would take for it, be it a car, video games, cards, etc.
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  5. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by kdub924 View Post
    I think the newer members having to send first when they are selling a card is absurd. Paypal covers you 110% as a buyer and making newbies send first when they are the ones selling something is just opening to doors for 'trusted members' to pull a fast one. Now trading is a whole other deal, new member do need to continue sending first there, but like I said when they are selling I think its a stupid rule. I think the buying/selling section ought to have a rule like the Blowout forums where you need to post a price. I just ignore people's post or pm's asking for offers, YOUR card YOUR price.
    The flaw in your position is that you are saying that members who have proven themselves are less trustworthy or just as big of a risk to rip someone off as/than new members who have not proven themselves. The other flaw is that PayPal does not protect you. If the person empties their Paypal account then there is nothing to refund you and you are just out. I had this happen to me on eBay when I bought a car stereo and it never arrived. By the time PayPal ruled in my favor on the claim all of the money was gone and I got back nothing.

    When new members join the site they agree to the trade requirements. If they don't like it then they don't have to be here. We established these rules for a reason and they seem to work quite well. If you want to send $300 to a newbie with 0 feedback then go right ahead, just be sure that you understand that if they don't send the card, send a damaged card, send the wrong card or send to the wrong address that the SCF Dispute team will not help because you chose to ignore the safeguards that we have in place to protect you.

    Also, as someone who worked disputes for 1.5 years, I can tell you that for every 1 veteran member that rips off a newbie there are at least 100 newbies that don't send, send damaged cards, send the wrong cards, take a month to send or send to the wrong address. Newbies have very little to lose. They haven't built a reputation on the site, they don't mind getting banned because they think they can just create a new account and they don't think that they have to be accountable for what they do on the internet. Newbies sending first to veterans carries very little risk compared to veterans sending first/at the same time to newbies.

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  6. #25
    The flaw in your position is that you are saying that members who have proven themselves are less trustworthy or just as big of a risk to rip someone off as/than new members who have not proven themselves. The other flaw is that PayPal does not protect you.
    +1

    Newbies have very little to lose. They haven't built a reputation on the site, they don't mind getting banned because they think they can just create a new account and they don't think that they have to be accountable for what they do on the internet. Newbies sending first to veterans carries very little risk compared to veterans sending first/at the same time to newbies.
    +1
    pc is spectra spectra spectra

  7. #26
    The sense of entitlement seems to be a generational thing. There is a report out that the kids graduating from college now have a greater sense of entitlement than any other generation so that trait isn't going to be unique to SCF or any other trading place unfortunately.
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  8. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by ndhl83 View Post
    Just a thought on the bolded statement: It's not "lying" to not reveal all the information you have in a negotiation. That's part of negotiating: You're trying to leverage your position in order to get what you want.

    When people message me saying "What's the absolute lowest price you would take for this card?" it would be stupid of me to just tell them that the least I would take is "X". I would much rather have X+any number. An extra $3, an extra $15, doesn't matter. So I usually reply with something like "Well, what do you think a fair price would be?". If it's higher than my lowest price, we very likely have a deal. If it's lower, than I can politely decline or counter with something around my lowest...but again, not my lowest. I can't remember the last time I sold something for the absolute minimum I would take for it, be it a car, video games, cards, etc.
    Its not negotiating if you tell someone you don't have a price in mind when they ask you and you really do it is lying but seriously I was being a little facetious with that comment.

    As for the rest of your post I can see your point and it makes sense but it doesn't work for me personally. If I ask you what your best price is and you come back with "what do you think is a fair price" you'd get either a "its your card you tell me." or a "fair to you or me" If the price you tell me is too high you won't get a chance to counter because I'll walk away. If I ask you what your lowest price is and after I decline you come back with an even lower one it ticks me off . I realize that most people are not like me. They will haggle back and forth just to save a buck or make a buck. That's fine if that's what you want to do but I'm a one shot kind of guy when it come to this sort of thing. I give my best price and I expect your best price. I may spend more than I could have or I may make less than I could have but people know where they stand with me. They are not going to get the run around. I can't say that I have never made counter offers both buying and selling but it is a very rare occurrence. It may not be the smartest business practice but it is the way I do it.
    Last edited by sschind; 01-09-2013 at 04:53 PM.
    Steve Schindler

    Collect what you want to collect. Collect players and cards that you like. Collect what you can afford. Collect for you, not to try to impress someone else. If you do this you will much more likely to enjoy the hobby and stay with it.

  9. #28
    Its not the best business wise, but its the easiest and most direct route which is why I usually do the same. Most of the time im a one way or another kind of person. I have sent multiple messages coming to a trade agreement because I love to trade. However when it comes to buying or selling im very direct. I hate money and always will. All money and the market has ever done is enslave people and give them reasons to cause sensless animocity towards each other. The trade system works better. Yes there is a monetary value that has to be protected to an extent, but people are more likely to lose a little on their end in a trade for something they want as well am I. I do it all the time lol. Money litterally does corrupt everything. Thats why I make my prices set one way or another. Theres no chance of upseting either person while getting the point across.
    pc is spectra spectra spectra

  10. #29
    I agree that when I am trading I am way more willing to "take a loss" on my end. I mean, I've already spent the money on the card I have, and I'm willing to get rid of it in favour of another card that I want. That's actually a gain from happiness perspective haha.
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  11. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by meandsharon11 View Post
    Its not the best business wise, but its the easiest and most direct route which is why I usually do the same. Most of the time im a one way or another kind of person. I have sent multiple messages coming to a trade agreement because I love to trade. However when it comes to buying or selling im very direct. I hate money and always will. All money and the market has ever done is enslave people and give them reasons to cause sensless animocity towards each other. The trade system works better. Yes there is a monetary value that has to be protected to an extent, but people are more likely to lose a little on their end in a trade for something they want as well am I. I do it all the time lol. Money litterally does corrupt everything. Thats why I make my prices set one way or another. Theres no chance of upseting either person while getting the point across.
    You mean like those times when it takes 2 weeks to come to an agreement because each side keeps adding to their end because they either don't want to be thought of as a cheap skate or hey simply really appreciate the other guys offer. I've had a few of those.

    Kind of goes like this

    me- I'll give you these cards for those cards
    him- yours are worth more so I'll throw this in
    me- Ok great, I'll add this one as a bonus
    him- super, since you liked this one I'll include it as well
    me- cool I have this one that I'd really like to see go to someone who appreciates it.
    him- Awesome, I've not seen that one, could you use this one.
    me- don't have that one, I just found this one.
    him- you do now, thanks, I like that one, I've got a few of these laying around could you use them
    me- Sure, I'll throw in some of these as well.
    Him- OK, can we do this now?
    me- sure lets send.

    We both get lots of good cards and usually both of us end up sending even more. Of course I'm talking pretty low end stuff here of maybe $50.00 total value. I wouldn't really expect this with a $250.00 trade.

    I like those.
    Steve Schindler

    Collect what you want to collect. Collect players and cards that you like. Collect what you can afford. Collect for you, not to try to impress someone else. If you do this you will much more likely to enjoy the hobby and stay with it.

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