Noboby getting voted into the HOF this year?

**pwaldo** · 01-12-2013, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by metsmagic18

I agree. Lou Brock and Tim Raines are extremely similar statistically. Bill James wrote an essay comparing them if I remember right...

They are similar but Brock had the stolen base records when he retired and he had 3000 hits. Raines had neither. Plus you still have some people who think Brock shouldn't be in the HOF so I don't see why Raines should make it if people don't think Brock was a HOF player.

**metsmagic18** · 01-12-2013, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by pwaldo

They are similar but Brock had the stolen base records when he retired and he had 3000 hits. Raines had neither. Plus you still have some people who think Brock shouldn't be in the HOF so I don't see why Raines should make it if people don't think Brock was a HOF player.

All things that are true, I just meant if Brock gets in maybe Raines deserves it as well.

**gladdyontherise** · 01-12-2013, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by Redman5006

Puckett has more all star years, more gold gloves, 2 World Series rings, all star MVP, alcs MVP, al batting title and a .318 career avg. Biggio has the 3000 hits. Looks like they are only seperated by about 10% of the vote for first time voting too. I think Biggio is deserving of the hall, but I do see a difference between Puckett and Biggio.

I don't see what most of the things you listed for Puckett have in relevance to the hall of fame, personally. All-Star appearances? ALCS MVP? Batting Titles? (I won't even get started on gold gloves, which are a rather large joke generally)

You can't compare them because the position difference, but Biggio should've been in on the first ballot. He was a great defensive player, and offensive player.

And for the record, Rafael Palmeiro won a gold glove once playing 28 games at 1st base.....yep.

**pwaldo** · 01-12-2013, 06:29 PM

Kirby Puckett got in on his first ballot because the writers felt sorry that his career ended early due to the problems with his eye.

If people remember The Sporting News made a list of the top 100 players of all time either because it was their 100th year or because of 2000. I forgot why but if you see the original list Puckett was super high on their list. A few years later the list was updated to adjust for the players who were still playing moving up (Clemens, Bonds, etc). They quietly moved Puckett down the list by a lot so I think they realized they were caught up in the Puckett hype as well.

**Redman5006** · 01-12-2013, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by gladdyontherise

I don't see what most of the things you listed for Puckett have in relevance to the hall of fame, personally. All-Star appearances? ALCS MVP? Batting Titles? (I won't even get started on gold gloves, which are a rather large joke generally)

You can't compare them because the position difference, but Biggio should've been in on the first ballot. He was a great defensive player, and offensive player.

And for the record, Rafael Palmeiro won a gold glove once playing 28 games at 1st base.....yep.

I agree with you really. I didn't list those as reasons he is in the hall. Just saying they may have factored in the 10% difference between Puckett and Biggios first year ballot votes. Just curious, why do you think Puckett was a first ballot inductee and Biggio wasn't?

**gladdyontherise** · 01-12-2013, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by Redman5006

I agree with you really. I didn't list those as reasons he is in the hall. Just saying they may have factored in the 10% difference between Puckett and Biggios first year ballot votes. Just curious, why do you think Puckett was a first ballot inductee and Biggio wasn't?

I think Puckett got "helped" by his injuries that ended his career, and Biggio got hurt by being a part of the sterioid era (and thus some writers made "statements" by sending in a blank ballot despite their being plenty of clean, worthy candidates)

Granted, I never saw Puckett play, and what I saw of Biggio was past his peak seasons, so when I look at both players, it's at their stats only.

**Redman5006** · 01-12-2013, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by pwaldo

Kirby Puckett got in on his first ballot because the writers felt sorry that his career ended early due to the problems with his eye.

If people remember The Sporting News made a list of the top 100 players of all time either because it was their 100th year or because of 2000. I forgot why but if you see the original list Puckett was super high on their list. A few years later the list was updated to adjust for the players who were still playing moving up (Clemens, Bonds, etc). They quietly moved Puckett down the list by a lot so I think they realized they were caught up in the Puckett hype as well.

I remember all that, but voters feeling sorry for him is no reason to vote him in, much less as a first ballot inductee. The system is flawed no doubt. Change will come but very slowly. I just want to make sure that I'm not complaining about the voters failing to vote someone into the hall and then complain that they voted players in that do not belong in the hall in the first place.

**baseballboy2** · 01-12-2013, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by gps29070

Disagree. Vada Pinson had better credentials.

Raines only hit .300 in five full seasons. 2605 hits, never finished above 5th in MVP voting, only hit 430 doubles,

Sorry, those are not Hall of Fame stats.

You talk about 430 doubles like it's nothing. Lol. He also had over 100 triples, which is impressive.

**baseballboy2** · 01-12-2013, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by stlcardinalsfan

next couple years there wont be anyone to elect to the hall.....i cant think of anyone currently playing that will get in the hall....besides jeter,mariano,and maybe thome.

I think Ichiro is a safe bet for the hall. If I was a voter, I would take into account that he spent the first decade or so of his career in Japan. In fact, he may even get in on his first try. Pujols is a first ballot lock as long as his name stays clean. Halladay and Sabathia will both probably get in as well, unless of course these voters still believe that 300 wins is the only way. I highly doubt we will ever see a pitcher win 300 games again. If anyone does it, it will be Sabathia. Joe Mauer is well on his way, as long as he can stay healthy. How many catchers have won 3 batting titles, and almost 2 or 3 more? Miguel Cabrera is certainly on track to make it as well. But once again, his name will have to stay clean. If a guy like Bonds can't get in because of PEDs, then I feel bad for any other worthy PED user.