01-17-2013, 09:29 AM #11
Willie McGee was a great player. I agree he was not a HOFer, but he is much better than alot of guys that went in over him. I would take him over probably 20 guys that are in. That is the problem with the Hall of Shame.
01-17-2013, 09:46 AM #12
Last edited by the 'stache; 01-17-2013 at 09:49 AM.
01-17-2013, 10:24 AM #13
How bout all 11 hall of famers that I put in the thread topic. I'll take McGee over any of them.
01-17-2013, 10:57 AM #14
1B George Kelly
OF Jim Rice
OF Llyod Waner
First of all, a few of the players you've included in your list played the game more than eight decades ago. The game was different then.
Ray Schalk was one of the best defensive catchers in the game. His defense is the reason for his induction.
George Kelly was inducted by the veteran's committee, and I don't think he's worthy of the Hall. Here you could have a point. But again, you're talking about a player from nearly a century ago.
Red Schoendienst, again, was a veteran's committee inductee. But he was one of the best second basemen in the game for over a decade. I don't have a problem with his being voted in.
Freddie Lindstrom is a player I don't know much about, but looking over his credentials, he was probably the best fielding third baseman of his era. On top of that, he was an excellent hitter. Hall worthy? Debatable, as I never saw him play, and the BBWAA didn't induct him, the veteran's committee did. I don't know if I'd take McGee over him or not.
Phil Rizzuto is a worthy inductee. The best defensive shortstop in the history of the game prior to Ozzie Smith's coming along. I'd take him ahead of Willie McGee every day and twice on Sundays.
Jim Rice....Willie McGee ahead of him? LOL. Ah, no. Rice was one of the most feared hitters in the game when he played. He dusts McGee.
Not sure who the hell "McCarthy" is. One was a manager, and one played in the 1800's. I'm not going to even get into a debate about somebody who played their entire career in the dead ball era.
Lloyd Waner. Probably not Hall worthy, but again, I don't know if I'd take Willie McGee over him. He was a very good hitter at the start of his career, but it's his brother Paul that great one. You'd have an argument here.
Don Sutton? Absolutely not. If I had a choice between Sutton and McGee on my team, it's not even close. Sutton is Hall worthy.
Rube Marquard? Again, a guy that played a century ago. Veteran's committee inductee. You have an argument here that Marquard's Hall credentials are questionable. But his being in does not improve McGee's credentials. Maybe Marquard should not be in. But McGee doesn't belong either.
Bruce Sutter. Absurd, one of the best closers to ever play the game, and completely dominated in his era. McGee is not in the same league.
01-17-2013, 11:02 AM #15
A few players you could make the case that they don't belong in Cooperstown. The problem is that you're not really finding anybody from the modern era in the Hall that McGee is clearly better than. You're not making the argument for his induction, rather you're making the argument for the removing of other players.
I'm baffled that you could think that Willie McGee is somehow more deserving than Jim Rice.
Last edited by the 'stache; 01-17-2013 at 11:15 AM.
01-17-2013, 11:24 AM #16
McGee is a very nice player. Career numbers a lot like Cecil Cooper but better speed, and far less power:
2,192 hits, .298 AVG, 1,012 runs, 415 doubles, 245 HR, 1,125 RBI. 5 time all star, 2 gold gloves, 3 silver sluggers.
3 200 hit seasons, led the AL in doubles twice, in RBI twice. Lost the batting title in 1980 to George Brett (he hit .352, Brett hit .390)
5 year peak 1979-1983. His 162 game average: .320 AVG, 103 runs, 212 hits, 42 doubles, 28 HR, 120 RBI
McGee: .297 AVG, .333 OBP, .729 OPS. 1,010 runs scored in 17 seasons.
Cooper: .298 AVG, .337 OBP, .803 OPS. 1,012 runs scored in 18 seasons.
Both really nice players, All Stars. But neither Hall worthy.
01-17-2013, 01:09 PM #17
I never said McGee was hall worthy. We agree on that. I'm just saying there are alot of hall worthy guys in the hall. You say Ray Schalk was a great defensive Catcher. True, but that alone should not get anyone in the Hall of Fame. Bob Boone and Mike Scocsia were great defensive Catchers too, they don't belong either. I honestly would throw close to 50 players out of the Hall of Fame, and put in about 10 that are not in now. There are alot of players that do not belong.
01-17-2013, 03:23 PM #18
Trade Bucket: Hidden Content
01-17-2013, 04:10 PM #19
01-17-2013, 05:31 PM #20
Cy Young: 316 losses
Walter Johnson: 279 losses
On a side note, who thinks J.R. Richard WOULD HAVE BEEN a Hall of Famer had his career progressed at the rate he was going? I know lambeausouth seems to know his way around Baseball Reference... is there a way to tell what could have been at the end of his career had he not had the stroke?"The Mets have shown me more ways to lose than I even know existed" -Casey Stengel
Let's go: Mets/Giants/Knicks/Rangers/Wild/Chelsea/Rutgers
Autographs of Larry Walker, Yadier Molina, Jason Simontacchi, and So Taguchi Wanted!