Hall of Average players that were nice to fans. Non Hall of Famers are better player

**the 'stache** · 01-18-2013, 06:54 AM

Originally Posted by AllenGinterSigned

You say Ray Schalk was a great defensive Catcher. True, but that alone should not get anyone in the Hall of Fame.

Ok, I gotcha now ;) Pardon me for being dense. It was late in the morning, and I missed your point altogether.

A great (not very good, not very very good, but great) defensive player at a position like shortstop, catcher or center field can be the difference between winning a pennant, and sitting home to watch the playoffs on TV. As a general rule, I would agree that defense alone should not merit inclusion, but there are certain players that transcend the positions they play, and should get special consideration. Ozzie Smith was such a player.

**AllenGinterSigned** · 01-18-2013, 09:16 AM

I think we mostly agree on everything. I agree defense is very important in the team game. So is bunting, moving guys over, and middle relief pitchers. I don't think the hall of fame was intended for those type players though. It was made for superstars. Guys that were truly great! JIm Kaat won 17 Gold Gloves or something absurd like that. Gary Pettis and Devon White were crazy with the leather. Andruw Jones also, and they played a premium position. We will just have to agree to disagree on this matter.

**gps29070** · 01-18-2013, 02:27 PM

Defense is a very important part of the game. They say between an average player and a great player is 1 to 2 hits a week. An excellent defensive player can easily prevent 1 or 2 hits a week.

**AllenGinterSigned** · 01-18-2013, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by gps29070

Defense is a very important part of the game. They say between an average player and a great player is 1 to 2 hits a week. An excellent defensive player can easily prevent 1 or 2 hits a week.

Again, I am not arguing against the importance of defense to a winning team. But that should not get you into the hall of fame. Brett Butler used to seemingly get 2 bunt singles a week, don't see anyone arguing for him. There are parts of the game that you need, but don't belong in the Hall Of Fame. Ted Williams was once asked by a teammate why he didn't work on his fielding more? Ted said you keep working on that fielding, the glove won't make you rich and famous, the bat will. Not an exact quote, but that was the jist. Ted never did win a ring, but he got a plaque.

**pwaldo** · 01-18-2013, 03:47 PM

Defense is important to the game but it seems like it would be a lot easier to teach somebody to be good at defense versus teaching them to be great offensively. Not taking anything away from the great defensive guys but people take steroids and they still can't be great hitters.

**sanfran22** · 01-18-2013, 07:54 PM

Craig Biggio had great D at 2 premium positions as well as 3k hits. He is a Hall of famer. Omar vizquel was an amazing shortstop. He probably is as well. It's a case by case basis but guys that have a ton of gold gloves (except pitchers I believe), or a magic number should be in without question.

**the 'stache** · 01-18-2013, 10:35 PM

Some good discussion here, guys. I'm enjoying it.

**pwaldo** · 01-19-2013, 03:57 PM

I'd also say that the devaluation of the Gold Glove probably doesn't help the guys who have a lot. Not saying they weren't great but the reputation of the award has taken a hit recently with guys who shouldn't have won it so people think that going back to the beginning it was always like that. That's what happens when standards get dropped it hurts everyone. Same thing seems to be happening with the All Star game lately.

**metsmagic18** · 01-19-2013, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by pwaldo

I'd also say that the devaluation of the Gold Glove probably doesn't help the guys who have a lot. Not saying they weren't great but the reputation of the award has taken a hit recently with guys who shouldn't have won it so people think that going back to the beginning it was always like that. That's what happens when standards get dropped it hurts everyone. Same thing seems to be happening with the All Star game lately.

Agreed. In some guys tag lines like Joel Hanrahan is says "2X All-Star!" Yes... for the Pirates because they have to send someone... not a great example.. but you follow.