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  1. #1

    Does anyone else feel like the D-Backs blew it?

    In the beginning of this month, Arizona supposedly had a deal worked out that would send Justin Upton to Texas for Elvis Andrus.

    The deal would have benifited both teams. Arizona would have gotten a superior fielding shortstop and legitimate leadoff hitter and made a full time slot for free-agent signee Cody Ross @ rightfield, while the Rangers would have gotten an premiere outfielder in Justin Upton that would help to forget the loss of Josh Hamilton to division rival Angels and made room for top prospect Jurickson Profar to start at shortstop.

    And then the Rangers signed Lance Berkman to be their DH, which also cancelled Nelson Cruz' move from the outfield, so now that deal looks less and less likely to ever happen (unless Texas would have Upton or Murphy play center, also very unlikely).

    Arizona is the team hurting more from this busted deal. Even though Cody Ross is a downgrade compaired to Uptons' potential, he's still a good hitter and fielder and could have a great year playing full-time in Arizona in that solid lineup. But most importantly, they would have gotten a superior leadoff hitter compaired to Gerardo Parra in Andrus, but now the D-Backs look like their going to settle with Chad Pennington as their shortstop, which is a minor downgrade defensively, but a major downgrade offensively.

    Maybe all of it was just rumors, but as that potential trade went up in smoke, so may have went the D-Backs chances of legtitimately competing with the Dodgers or Giants for the division.
    Last edited by Ledd Raubstur; 01-21-2013 at 11:51 PM.
    "I felt I had to prove...that the Yankees are just a team of ballplayers, not a pride of supermen." - Sandy Koufax; after striking out a series record 15 batters in game 1 of the '63 World Series

    Lookin 4 vintage Dodgers/Rams, Kemp and Kershaw RCs, Lakers 80s-present

  2. #2
    Just my impartial observation: I'm thinking that they're going to go with Didi Gregorius (who they got from the Reds in the 3-way Bauer deal) as their SS this season. He's quite the prospect, from all indications. If Adam Eaton turns out to be the stud in CF that he's supposed to be, I'd say the D-backs did just fine.

  3. #3
    I really don't get what the Dbacks are trying to do. They traded Bauer away for virtually nothing. (It sounds like the shortstop they got really is being overrated by the organization, and can't hit at all), they have all this depth at outfield and starting pitching, but the moves they're making don't make a ton of sense. Cody Ross is a platoon player (just like Jason Kubel), both aren't very good defensive players, and it removes the chance to use Parra in LF. Then you have Adam Eaton who from all accounts should be a very good center fielder, but will start in Triple-A, finally you have Justin Upton who they've tried to trade for atleast a year now, even though he has so much potential (which he has shown) and is at a very nice salary when you look at what corner outfielders are getting now, it all doesn't make much sense.
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  4. #4
    I wouldn't say Ross is a platoon player. The guy has always been a solid bat. he's not a standout defensive fielder but he covers a solid amount of ground and has a good rightfield arm and catches what he gets to. He hit 22 homeruns and 81 RBIs last year with the Red Sox in just 130 games. I know that was in Boston but Chase field isn't that much of a downgrade from Fenway as a hitters park. Given a chance to play full-time in that lineup I don't see why he couldn't approach even better numbers.

    Kubel on the otherhand is a below average outfielder and doesnt cover a lot of ground and he has had problems hitting lefties, but wherever he's played he's always finished with solid offensive numbers year in, year out. He hit 30 homers and led the D-Backs with 90 RBIs last year.

    I think that the D-Backs are gonna start with Parra in center. I'm not sure how well that's gonna play out. I think now we'll see the D-Backs start missing the defense of Chris Young who seemed to get to every ball, shallow or deep, in that big, cavernous center field in Arizona.

    I don't think people realize how good of a center fielder Young is. I was always amazed how much ground he could cover. There were so many balls hit to deep center I thought he'd never get close to he would end up catching on the run right in front of the warning track. He's always been overshadowed by guys like Matt Kemp. Kemp is one of the best centerfielders I've ever seen, but I'm not sure if Kemp could get to even half the balls that Young got to if he were to play for Arizona all the time.
    "I felt I had to prove...that the Yankees are just a team of ballplayers, not a pride of supermen." - Sandy Koufax; after striking out a series record 15 batters in game 1 of the '63 World Series

    Lookin 4 vintage Dodgers/Rams, Kemp and Kershaw RCs, Lakers 80s-present

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Ledd Raubstur View Post
    I wouldn't say Ross is a platoon player. The guy has always been a solid bat. he's not a standout defensive fielder but he covers a solid amount of ground and has a good rightfield arm and catches what he gets to. He hit 22 homeruns and 81 RBIs last year with the Red Sox in just 130 games. I know that was in Boston but Chase field isn't that much of a downgrade from Fenway as a hitters park. Given a chance to play full-time in that lineup I don't see why he couldn't approach even better numbers.

    Kubel on the otherhand is a below average outfielder and doesnt cover a lot of ground and he has had problems hitting lefties, but wherever he's played he's always finished with solid offensive numbers year in, year out. He hit 30 homers and led the D-Backs with 90 RBIs last year.

    I think that the D-Backs are gonna start with Parra in center. I'm not sure how well that's gonna play out. I think now we'll see the D-Backs start missing the defense of Chris Young who seemed to get to every ball, shallow or deep, in that big, cavernous center field in Arizona.

    I don't think people realize how good of a center fielder Young is. I was always amazed how much ground he could cover. There were so many balls hit to deep center I thought he'd never get close to he would end up catching on the run right in front of the warning track. He's always been overshadowed by guys like Matt Kemp. Kemp is one of the best centerfielders I've ever seen, but I'm not sure if Kemp could get to even half the balls that Young got to if he were to play for Arizona all the time.
    Cody Ross is the definition of a platoon player (ignoring RBI because that's a factor of opportunity, and not skill):

    Cody Ross from 2010-2012: vs LHP: .276/.352/.530 ....vs RHP: .254/.315/.402

    Parra is a great defensive left fielder though, so I'm sure he'd be fine in center. Arizona said they may use Ross in center though, which would be a disaster.
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  6. #6
    Its not like .254 against righties and .276 against leftiesis that bad. You make it sound like he's hitting .190 and .320. And, NEWS FLASH! Most righthanders hit worse against righties than lefties. Rarely does a righthanded hitter hit better against righties than lefties. Mainly cause, again NEWS FLASH: its harder to hit a breaking pitch than moves down and away from you (coming from a right handed pitcher if you hit right handed) than hitting a pitch that's breaking towards you (from a lefty)
    "I felt I had to prove...that the Yankees are just a team of ballplayers, not a pride of supermen." - Sandy Koufax; after striking out a series record 15 batters in game 1 of the '63 World Series

    Lookin 4 vintage Dodgers/Rams, Kemp and Kershaw RCs, Lakers 80s-present

  7. #7
    I think the D-Backs are expecting teams to pay out the for Upton. They need to come to the reality that it's not going to happen. Sure, is he young and talented? Yes. In his five seasons, has he broken out into a star? No. Upton still has something to prove before teams start throwing around 3 or 4 good prospects for him. Especially because there's another corner outfielder on the market who is currently playing at a higher level than Upton, and that's Giancarlo Stanton. Why would teams overpay for Upton when they can get Stanton for the same price?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Ledd Raubstur View Post
    Its not like .254 against righties and .276 against leftiesis that bad. You make it sound like he's hitting .190 and .320. And, NEWS FLASH! Most righthanders hit worse against righties than lefties. Rarely does a righthanded hitter hit better against righties than lefties. Mainly cause, again NEWS FLASH: its harder to hit a breaking pitch than moves down and away from you (coming from a right handed pitcher if you hit right handed) than hitting a pitch that's breaking towards you (from a lefty)
    He has a .882 OPS vs LHP since 2010 and a .717 OPS vs RHP, that's significant. You're putting too much emphasis on batting average, he gets on base a lot less vs RHP and RHP takes away a lot of his power.

    A .350 OBP is solid for a corner outfielder, a .315 OBP is bad, same for his slugging percentage, that's why he's a platoon guy.
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  9. #9
    I was never really high on Elvis to begin with but if the Dbacks traded away Justin Upton and just got him in return they would be getting ripped of. I remember when Justin Upton went #1 and was "the next Griffey". I don't think he is Griffey level talent now but if motivated he can be an MVP type player on a winning team. Elvis is a nice SS but I don't get why Arizona couldn't get more for Justin Upton. I guess the $14 million he is owed in 2014 and $14.5 million he is owed in 2015 is turning a lot of teams off.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by gladdyontherise View Post
    He has a .882 OPS vs LHP since 2010 and a .717 OPS vs RHP, that's significant. You're putting too much emphasis on batting average, he gets on base a lot less vs RHP and RHP takes away a lot of his power.

    A .350 OBP is solid for a corner outfielder, a .315 OBP is bad, same for his slugging percentage, that's why he's a platoon guy.
    This is where we're gonna have to agree to disagree, though you do make a point regarding the difference in OPS
    "I felt I had to prove...that the Yankees are just a team of ballplayers, not a pride of supermen." - Sandy Koufax; after striking out a series record 15 batters in game 1 of the '63 World Series

    Lookin 4 vintage Dodgers/Rams, Kemp and Kershaw RCs, Lakers 80s-present

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