12-13 Fleer Retro Hockey, should be pretty sweet!

[FuriousD82]

Most people don't buy cards just b/c they are nice to look at. I guess you are in the minority.

Have you seen this product in every sport? Basketall? through the roof. Football? maintaining steady sales without Luck.

Cards look great, the inserts are tough to hit and the autos are diverse. Sorry, there are not more manufactured patches and a $500 price tag in this one. No rookies hurts this year, but that is across all produts.

[chakhae1]

Have you seen this product in every sport? Basketall? through the roof. Football? maintaining steady sales without Luck.

Cards look great, the inserts are tough to hit and the autos are diverse. Sorry, there are not more manufactured patches and a $500 price tag in this one. No rookies hurts this year, but that is across all produts.

Yes I have and sales have considerably dropped across the board for football and basketball and you can't compare hockey to either of them b/c there isn't much interest for hockey in the USA. That is just the facts of how the hobby is. Retro is good for people that want to relive that sense of history, but when comparing to other contemporary products it simply fails on every single aspect of what a product is supposed to deliver.

[FuriousD82]

Yes I have and sales have considerably dropped across the board for football and basketball and you can't compare hockey to either of them b/c there isn't much interest for hockey in the USA. That is just the facts of how the hobby is. Retro is good for people that want to relive that sense of history, but when comparing to other contemporary products it simply fails on every single aspect of what a product is supposed to deliver.

Box of basketball goes for $350. Football $250. I called three LCSs In Los Angeles and all said they had to reorder after this weekend. Sure volumes of singles have dropped as the product runs its life cycle.

Basketball sales were driven by international buyers so no idea what you mean by USA buyers not having interest in hockey.
Tell me please what contemporary products are great. You really miss opening a $100 box and getting two jerseys of low tier guys, one auto of a3rd round rookie and a rookie with a non game worn patch?
Id rather have a chance at an iconic PMG.


Also, the auto content at $35 an auto (6 per box at $220/box) could be improved but the business model does not allow for every box to have a Crosby or a Gretzky.

[chakhae1]

I think you proved by point that the football and basketball product of Retro is extremely popular. Agreed, but basketball maintains to be popular and even after more than a year sales are still brisk and the initial sales of the hockey product are pretty low as has been mentioned in this thread.

I have been in the hobby for a pretty long time and the obersvations I have made about hockey collectors is that they are pretty cheap. There really is no other way to put it. Over the past couple of months I have dabbled in buying cards for resale and all of the hockey cards I bought and resold were either at a loss or I broke even and the only cards I made a profit are were those I sold to personal collectors.

Whereas with basketball, all the cards I sold, I made a small profit on or broke even. Why is that? As you mentioned the market for basketball collectors is a LOT bigger than hockey and hockey BY FAR has the smallest market of collectors when you consider the four major sports. I did not dabble in the football market, but from what I know I am pretty sure it is right up there with basketball and baseball, what hockey being at the bottom.

I never said contemporary products were great, but there should be a certain expectation and a product that focuses on inserts is just destined to fail in my opinion. What product do collectors like to buy? Those with solid rookie cards, patches, auto patches, veterans and the what not and Retro fails in all of these components and that was my point.

That is your opinion of getting a big time PMG and they are extremely popular in the other sports, but like I mentioned this hockey product will not do well and you are in the minority I believe, but don't quote me on that.

Not sure what your last point was, but most of the Retro autos I am pretty sure will sell for less than $10 and a large majority of them in the $2 range.

[royfan]

The non-retro autos in this set were a huge mistake. If they left them out and priced the boxes lower, I think it would be getting a lot better reviews. I did a group break last night as was shocked at how many hits come from this stuff, not all of them are numbered, but so what. I would much rather have a few parallel sets to trade away than a bunch of junk like in black diamond or limited. There's a few things that were done wrong with this product and maybe that will be it's downfall, but I wouldn't call it the worst set of the year, there's plenty of stinkers on the shelves right now; priced higher and lower. If this was an ideal product for me, it would have less crap autos, the retro autos would be on card and the price would be $150. I mean, I saw a skybox opened last night and the sticker was over the lettering in the middle of the card. That's really not good enough, it just seems to be that these autos were never intended to be included and were rushed into the product to drive the price up and to get rid of a back log of sticker autos for players that no one cares about.

Overall the feeling of opening fleer from the 90s is cool and all, and the sp's will defiantly be selling for a decent price, but I think the singles sales will be driven by the fact that a lot of people would rather not gamble $200+ on getting 6 junk autos and just spend that 200 on singles for pcs. On the other hand this stuff is a great group break product, with between 60-90 hits in a half case, you can defiantly do worse for $30 a team.

[ncm7772]

A lot of people defending this set........

......I completely agree the set itself is a good idea, and there are certainly good hits from it. My main objection is that this stuff is $220 a box. I don't crack a lot of boxes, and my goal isn't to "make my $ back" or "recoup my losses", but I can't bring myself to crack a box where you're getting back such little.

[Irbe3201]

Is it that hockey collectors are cheap or is it that hockey just isn't the big money sports of basketball, football and baseball? Hockey collector's aren't cheap. I see a lot of them paying good money for product. It's not so much to ask to get your money worth out of your purchase. I really like this product but you aren't getting what you are paying for. I guess it's ok to buy cards to make a profit but I think most of us are here to add to our collections. The only thing cheap here is the autographs in this product and the fact that most of the autos are going for less than $10 on the bay. I think it's stupid to pay that much for a box of cards when you can buy multiple boxes of another product and get a lot more for your money.

I think you proved by point that the football and basketball product of Retro is extremely popular. Agreed, but basketball maintains to be popular and even after more than a year sales are still brisk and the initial sales of the hockey product are pretty low as has been mentioned in this thread.

I have been in the hobby for a pretty long time and the obersvations I have made about hockey collectors is that they are pretty cheap. There really is no other way to put it. Over the past couple of months I have dabbled in buying cards for resale and all of the hockey cards I bought and resold were either at a loss or I broke even and the only cards I made a profit are were those I sold to personal collectors.

Whereas with basketball, all the cards I sold, I made a small profit on or broke even. Why is that? As you mentioned the market for basketball collectors is a LOT bigger than hockey and hockey BY FAR has the smallest market of collectors when you consider the four major sports. I did not dabble in the football market, but from what I know I am pretty sure it is right up there with basketball and baseball, what hockey being at the bottom.

I never said contemporary products were great, but there should be a certain expectation and a product that focuses on inserts is just destined to fail in my opinion. What product do collectors like to buy? Those with solid rookie cards, patches, auto patches, veterans and the what not and Retro fails in all of these components and that was my point.

That is your opinion of getting a big time PMG and they are extremely popular in the other sports, but like I mentioned this hockey product will not do well and you are in the minority I believe, but don't quote me on that.

Not sure what your last point was, but most of the Retro autos I am pretty sure will sell for less than $10 and a large majority of them in the $2 range.

[iidaemmi]

Most people don't buy cards just b/c they are nice to look at. I guess you are in the minority.

Are you upset if someone likes this set? Let him love.

Harri

[rustyisin]

no rookies is going to hurt this product. I love the autographics and credentials though.

[Estovia]

The only thing that turns me off about this box is the darned price tag.

I don't bust all my boxes with the sole hope of making my money back.. that's just silly. But when I look at boxes, the first thing that always goes through my head is the potential for what I'm getting.

Consider:
Fleer retro provides 6 autos / box at $215 plus parallels/inserts
SPGU provides 5 auto/memorabilia per box at $150 plus parallels,
SPA provides 3 hard signed autos per box at $120

Now I don't discount the idea that a lot of the cards are really neat looking, and it's the kind of set that would - or should - be the perfect kind of thing to inspire a trading frenzy... that is, if the hobby hadn't evolved the direction it has over the past 15-20 years.

It just feels like it's behind the times (and not in that "retro feel" way) and overpriced.