Ephesians 5:22-24

[shrewsbury]

wickabee, please post, we need some enlightenment around here!!!
but seriously, what you thinking

[ajcorleone]

I'd say something about being on the fence here, but I dont think I'm allowed to post in this thread yet, lest I support someone (even though I already stated I don't agree).

[Wickabee]

wickabee, please post, we need some enlightenment around here!!!
but seriously, what you thinking

Imnthinking it's not misinterpreted, but a level of malice is added by people using that passage that just isn't there. It's not hard to see that the bible puts men above women (husband is to be the head of the household, etc) but I just don't see a maliciousness, partly because men are reminded to listen to their wives and take what they say in consideration. All it really seems to do is place the final say, and therefor the responsibility, on the male, for a sense of order. Two heads will eventually compete. A good leader listens to those who follow.

[JustAlex]

There might not be any malice, but...

It is a good example of how the bible is outdated and should NOT be referenced as a guide to life in modern times.

Even though I personally don't like any type of marriage, I still understand why so many people do like it and I also know that a marriage won't last if the man thinks his wife is to constantly serve him and be beneath him on everything.

I mean, this is typical misogyny.

And I guess most men secretly fantasize to have a perfect obedient submissive wife.....but that's just not how it is.

===============

I want to share some of my cultural knowledge.....I'm Hispanic, and in my household (a very religious household) my mom (who was born in Central America) is indeed a "typical good christian woman"....she cooks the food, she cleans the house, she irons the clothes, she took care of all the kids (4 including myself) and she has always had a job on top of all of that. I will say that my father has NEVER been abusive to her or me or my siblings, he is also a "good christian man" who doesn't drink, smoke, swear or commit "sin".

Now, I will admit that this is not completely the result of religion (in Hispanic culture, women are mostly submissive) but it is what it is.

Funny thing is....when I was younger (maybe about 15) I fully expected that if and when I got married, my wife would do the same things my mom did.

Now that I've grown up, I know that a relationship (at any level) is about equal status and helping each other.....and even though I'm Hispanic, I don't wish to follow my roots and treat woman as if they are beneath me.

[mess0312]

Great discussion.....for what it's worth....everything in the Bible is open to interpretation.....that is why there are so many translations of the Bible and why Bible study is a huge part of the religious experience.....for anyone to say "this" means "that" and so on are missing the true journey of learning about any sacred scriptures.

[mess0312]

There might not be any malice, but...

It is a good example of how the bible is outdated and should NOT be referenced as a guide to life in modern times.

With all due respect, this logic always drives me nuts, our religion is our religion based on principles that are timeless . For example, in my religion, one of the things I hold so precious is that the mass that is said today, was the same mass said over a thousands years ago. To me there is something very conforting about that. Is the Bible faulty in spots to today's standards.....I say no (with the exception of gay marriage' I am still praying on that one.)

[JustAlex]

With all due respect, this logic always drives me nuts, our religion is our religion based on principles that are timeless . For example, in my religion, one of the things I hold so precious is that the mass that is said today, was the same mass said over a thousands years ago. To me there is something very conforting about that. Is the Bible faulty in spots to today's standards.....I say no (with the exception of gay marriage' I am still praying on that one.)

If you're talking about the christian religion, then I must disagree.

In the Christian religion, slavery was perfectly OK, and no where in the bible does it condemn it.

That is not timeless, nor is it good....it's down right evil.

You might like the nice things of the bible such as "love thy neighbor" and "do unto others as you would have them do unto you".

But you can't cherry pick.

You MUST accept it all.....the good and the bad.

[imronron]

This paragraph deals with the Christian Household and how we are supposed to be different than the world.
The Greek implies her submission is free and voluntary, not degrading, servile, or coercive (Col 3:18; Titus 2:5; 1 Pet 3:1) Since a wife entrusts herself to her husband as part of her devotion to the Lord, her submissioncannot be unconditional, especially if her husband commands what God expressly forbids(Acts 5:29). Though ancient society often viewed wives as the property of their husbands, Paul sees marriage as a loving partnership between spouses of equal dignity(Gal 3:28).
The husband's mission is to build up his marriage and family, not to dominate or demean them for selfish ends. His model is Christ, whose love was put into action by sacrifice. Again, Paul confronts prevailing customs, where husbands often reigned like tyrants over their household (Col 3:19; 1 Pet 3:7)
It is also helpful to read Eph 5:21.

[JustAlex]

This paragraph deals with the Christian Household and how we are supposed to be different than the world.
The Greek implies her submission is free and voluntary, not degrading, servile, or coercive (Col 3:18; Titus 2:5; 1 Pet 3:1) Since a wife entrusts herself to her husband as part of her devotion to the Lord, her submissioncannot be unconditional, especially if her husband commands what God expressly forbids(Acts 5:29). Though ancient society often viewed wives as the property of their husbands, Paul sees marriage as a loving partnership between spouses of equal dignity(Gal 3:28).
The husband's mission is to build up his marriage and family, not to dominate or demean them for selfish ends. His model is Christ, whose love was put into action by sacrifice. Again, Paul confronts prevailing customs, where husbands often reigned like tyrants over their household (Col 3:19; 1 Pet 3:7)
It is also helpful to read Eph 5:21.

Um....so?

A husband can treat a woman like a queen, but if she is being submissive and she's beneath him, that's still not right, nor is modern.

It's like the thing about slavery.

You can treat a slave very good and with respect.....that still doesn't mean that owning another human is right.

[Wickabee]

If you're talking about the christian religion, then I must disagree.

In the Christian religion, slavery was perfectly OK, and no where in the bible does it condemn it.

It was perfectly okay under Judaism too. Why aren't you ragging on them?

You want to talk cherry picking? There you go.