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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by pwaldo View Post
    Do they vote before the playoffs? I know in baseball they vote before the playoffs but they reveal it after the World Series.
    I think if they vote before the playoffs (which it seems they do) then the race would have been very tight. Either way it's hard to argue that one or the other is not deserving. Both had amazing seasons, I just think AP's was a bit more historic - especially the way it came right down to the wire.
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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by duane1969 View Post
    I guess I place more value on scoring than most. I give AP credit for his yardage performance, but think that with all of those yards he should have scored more (at least 1 TD per game). In the end I think it was more about popularity than actual production.

    - AP produced 2314 yards and 13 TDs on a team with a poor passing game and his team essentially makes the playoffs with a 10-6 record because of him and he gets MVP.
    - In 2003 Jamal Lewis produced 2271 yards and 14 TDs on a team with a poor passing game and his team essentially made the playoffs with a 10-6 record (and won the AFC North) because of him and he doesn't get MVP.

    - AP beat out Peyton Manning when Manning threw for 4659 yards and 37 TDs.
    - Lewis got beat out by Manning who threw for 4267 yards and 29 TDs and Steve McNair who threw for 3214 yards and 24 TDs.

    Popularity.
    So, you're saying AD is more popular than Manning? Manning is one of the most popular football players of all time. So I doubt that is the case for this one. Now if it was Matt Hasselbeck in Manning's place you may have a more valid point.
    Anyways I am stoked AP is the MVP and also Cris Carter is finally a HOFer.
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by wrigleyfield View Post
    So, you're saying AD is more popular than Manning? Manning is one of the most popular football players of all time. So I doubt that is the case for this one. Now if it was Matt Hasselbeck in Manning's place you may have a more valid point.
    Anyways I am stoked AP is the MVP and also Cris Carter is finally a HOFer.
    No, he is more popular than Lewis was. Lewis lost the MVP to Manning when Manning threw for 4200 yards and 29 TDs. AP beat out Manning when Manning threw for 4600 yards and 37 TDs. With nearly identical yards and TDs there is no reason why AP should have beat out Manning when Lewis didn't other than popularity.

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  4. #24
    Maybe Manning only beat Lewis because of popularity.
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  5. #25
    Why is Lewis even in this discussion?
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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by duane1969 View Post
    No, he is more popular than Lewis was. Lewis lost the MVP to Manning when Manning threw for 4200 yards and 29 TDs. AP beat out Manning when Manning threw for 4600 yards and 37 TDs. With nearly identical yards and TDs there is no reason why AP should have beat out Manning when Lewis didn't other than popularity.
    While there is some legitimacy to what you are saying, and both Baltimore in 2003 and Minnesota in 2012 had a 10 and 6 record, you need to look at who was largely responsable for the record.

    While there is no doubt that Lewis was the Ravens offense like Peterson was the Vikings offense, look at the defense.

    The Ravens in 2003 were 3rd in yards allowed and 6th in points allowed - they were a good defense.

    The Vikings in 2012 were 16th in yards allowed and 14th in points allowed - they were a middle of the road defense.

    It is thus quite clear that Peterson played a much larger part in his teams 10 and 6 record and making the playoffs.

    This is even more clear when you look at the season before.

    The Ravens in 2002 were 7 and 9 and were 22nd in yards allowed and 19th in points allowed - they were an average to poor defense, which improved to a good defense. The defense seems to have played a significant part in the turn around in from 7 and 9 to 10 and 6. It should be noted also that Lewis played all 16 games in 2002.

    The Vikings in 2011 were 3 and 13 and were 21std in yards allowed and 31st in points allowed - they were a poor defense, which improved to an average defense. The defense also played a significant part in the turn around in from 3 and 13 to 10 and 6 (though arguably not a great as the the Ravens improved by 19 places in yards allowed to the Vikings 5 places, and the Ravens improved by 13 places in points allowed while the Vikings improved by 17 places), but the turn around was much greater than what happened to the Ravens. This is significant when one remembers Peterson only played in 12 games in 2011, including a few games when he left injured.

    As a result Peterson seems to have played a much greater part in his team's turnaround and 10 and 6 record and reaching the playoffs than Lewis did.

    All that being said, I can understand why someone would make the argument Peyton Manning should have won the MVP. However the impacy Manning had on the Broncos does not seem to have been as great as Peterson's on the Vikings. The turn around from 8 and 8 in 2011 to 13 and 3 in 2012 was not as great, and the defense seems to have played just as large a part. The offense improved from 23rd in yards to 4th and from 25th in points to 2nd. The defense however also improved a lot, from 20th in yards to 2nd and from 24th in points to 2nd.

    As such there is no doubt that Manning played a big role in the Broncos success, but to me it seems that Peterson played a large role in his teams success - he was therefore the Most Valuable Player.
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  7. #27
    OZ I don't discount anything you are saying, but the reality is that without either Lewis or AP neither team goes to the playoffs. There is certainly no way that Kyle Boller and Anthony Wright combining for 2400 yards, 16 TDs and 17 INTs was going to provide enough offense for them to win 10 games.

    Also, the defensive rankings are relevant, but you have to look at who they played too. Yes, the Ravens had a better ranked defense, but they played the Browns twice, the Bengals twice (back when the Bengals stunk), the Raiders (who had a 4-12 season), the Chargers (who had a 4-12 season), the Cardinals (who had a 4-12 season), the Jaguars (5-11 season) and my beloved Steelers twice (who had a 6-10 season). Comparatively the Vikings played 5 games against teams that won 6 or less games (Jaguars, Lions twice, Titans and Cards) .

    So saying that the Ravens defense was significantly better when 10 of their 16 games were against teams with 6 or less wins is arguable. Had the Vikings had as soft of a schedule they most likely would have been ranked 6 or 8 spots higher in those categories.

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